Job title - qorax and seniors please clarify

[Hasni]

I am a qualified Mechanical Engineer and fall under NOC 2132 (Mechanical Engineer). I have decided to choose NOC 7216 as the mandatory NOC as per requirement because the job responsibilities listed there match exactly with what i have done BUT there is a contradiction in the job title and educational requirements. NOC 7216 says it has to be a supervisor / foreman with secondary school education while i have worked as Mechanical Engineer having engineering degree as my qualification.

Question:

Can i claim experience points under NOC 7216. Should i get my referrence lettere tailored from my company with job title same as mentioned in NOC 7216 or mention the original job title under which i have worked and its the job responsibilities that matter.

PS: I am in the final stage of gathering docs, please give a definitive reply so that i could go ahead. Tahnks

 

[qorax]

I am a qualified Mechanical Engineer and fall under NOC 2132 (Mechanical Engineer). I have decided to choose NOC 7216 as the mandatory NOC as per requirement because the job responsibilities listed there match exactly with what i have done BUT there is a contradiction in the job title and educational requirements. NOC 7216 says it has to be a supervisor / foreman with secondary school education while i have worked as Mechanical Engineer having engineering degree as my qualification.

Question:
Can i claim experience points under NOC 7216. Should i get my referrence lettere tailored from my company with job title same as mentioned in NOC 7216 or mention the original job title under which i have worked and its the job responsibilities that matter.

PS: I am in the final stage of gathering docs, please give a definitive reply so that i could go ahead. Tahnks

Sir,

Obviously NOC2132 not being in the 29 list u r looking@a way around - matching your current JDs to the best. However, as I read the description of NOC7216 in the HRSDC site [I'm sure u have read it, in detail, as well] - I come to the opinion that it's best matched for 'supervisors', 'Team-Leaders', 'Foremen', 'Chargehands' etc., whether a 'Contractor' or an employee... though 'contractors' look to be more appropriate.

Quote
Ref: http://www5.hrsdc.gc.ca/NOC/English/NOC/2006/Welcome.aspx
◦NOC7216 Contractors and Supervisors, Mechanic Trades
This unit group includes heating, refrigeration, air conditioning, millwrighting and elevator installation trade contractors who own and operate their own businesses. This group also includes supervisors who supervise and co-ordinate the activities of workers classified in unit groups within the following minor groups: Machinery and Transportation Equipment Mechanics (Except Motor Vehicle) (731), Automotive Service Technicians (732) and Other Mechanics (733). They are employed in a wide range of establishments; places of employment are indicated in the unit group descriptions.

Included job titles: contractor, heating systems, foreman/woman, air conditioning and refrigeration mechanics, foreman/woman, aircraft mechanics and inspectors, foreman/woman, electrical mechanics, foreman/woman, heating systems mechanics, foreman/woman, heavy-duty equipment mechanics, foreman/woman, printing machine repairers, foreman/woman, railway car repairers, foreman/woman, railway equipment maintenance inspectors, foreman/woman, textile machine mechanics, supervisor, aircraft maintenance engineers (AME), supervisor, appliance repair shop, supervisor, industrial mechanics, supervisor, motor vehicle repair shop, supervisor, small-engine repair shop.

BTW: Why do u think NOC2132 isn't there in the 29 list?
http://www.workingincanada.gc.ca/report-eng.do?action=Search&titleKeyword=2132
That's b'coz they do not desire 'Engineers' here [currently] - but r looking for 'blue collar' workers performing the above tasks. So, with your quals it'd be highly unlikely that a VO would be convinced however u get your ref-letters modified ['tailored' as u say - 'doctored' I'd say]. I might be absolutely wrong though.

Think about it!
Qorax

 

[Hasni]

thanks qorax but what do you mean by saying
"BTW: Why do u think NOC2132 isn't there in the 29 list?"

Actually my status is that from 1998 till 2006, i have worked on a job with job responsibilities matching same as detailed in 7216, only that i worked as mechanical engineer and NOC says it has to be either supervisor or foreman. Rest of the period in my 21 yrs total experience, i have worked as an engineer. Now i tailor my job title in the referrence letter to claim against 7216, and what about the rest of my jobs where i worked as engineer.Should i attach the refference letters for rest of the jobs as i did without caring whether title / job responsibilities meet the 7216.
Because they only require me to have worked as a full time for min one year out of past 10 years in the mentioned mandatory profession.I think they care least what i have been doing in the rest of the period.Please correct me if i am wrong.
Also i would like to know whether do i have to specify my NOC # while claiming points anywhere on application. Do i also need to specify the NOC# of my profession other than that of the mandatory NOC#.
Thanks

 

[nano24482]

Dear Hasni,

I myself did Diploma Engineering(Electronics) and applied as 7242 Industrial Electrician. I have worked on project sites for 5 years for electrical and automation. My work experience fell under 7242/2243 category. After that I got transferred to design department. So am doing engineering design now.

As I myself did the same thing(though I have a diploma) I suggest you go ahead with the application as you did the duties.

The main point is in third world countries like ours there is lot of interchange of labour. I myself know lot of engineers who worked for maintainance/projects on sites(on machines).

 

[Hasni]

thanks nano for sharing your experience. So what you suggest in my case

1. should i change the job title in my reference letter and write Foreman, OR write Asst. Engineer (Forman) or....
2.should i wite the same title that i worked under and attach an explanation stating that the duties i performed are exactly the same as in 7216
3. just make a referrence letter with the title i have worked under and mention the job responsibilities, rest leave to VO to decide.

Secondly, please share whether we need to indicate our both the NOC #'s anywhere (i mean the one that is our original profession, and second the mandatory out of 29 professions)
Thanks

 

[nano24482]

Dear Hasni,

In my case I was unable to change my designation( Diploma engineer trainee than engineer, than asst manager) as we get the letters from Corporate HR. All appointment letters and apprisal letters are back dated(i.e. I submitted my documents which I got from my company rather than making any documents). And all these letters did not have job duties.
So I made an affidavit for my list of duties citing my work experience and projects done along with my boss's contact details & visiting cards.

So I went ahead with option 3.
I guess what ever you do just be honest with the duties you did.

 

[Hasni]

you are right nano, job title should not matter much as far as your job responsibilities are the same.But what about qualification vs profession. I mean a degree holder mechanical engineer wants to claim points by coming few steps down from his position at supervisor level, how does VO look at it. In other words how important is it for your job to be compatible with your qualifications in the eyes of VO!!

Please share

 

[nano24482]

you are right nano, job title should not matter much as far as your job responsibilities are the same.But what about qualification vs profession. I mean a degree holder mechanical engineer wants to claim points by coming few steps down from his position at supervisor level, how does VO look at it. In other words how important is it for your job to be compatible with your qualifications in the eyes of VO!!

Please share

You are absolutely right. It shall be difficult to convince the visa officer.

But the point you raised is a very valid one. As far as India(and I guess Pakistan) is considered, lot of engineers work work on site as supervisors and they are degree holders. The pattern here is that most of engineers work on site and than by promotion work in offices as designers or maintainance/project heads.
The list of duties for profession 2132(mechanical engineers) is more for mechanical design engineers. Where as if you have worked in maintainance or project(erection-commissioning) your experience wil match more in 7216 than 2132. It will be very difficult for some non technical person to understand this.

Labour is so cheap in third world countries like us that companies hire engineers for everything. They are in purchase(totally commercial field), project planning & co ordination(again only half technical), on site checking construction & commissioning activities in maintainance.

Now i do have applied but as I have not received my medical request/visa I may not be in the best position to advise you plus I have a diploma so it will be easier for visa officer to be convinced.

There is always risk associated when you file for immigration.

 

[Hasni]

Anyways thanks for sharing and do keep us updated about your case, might help many who are facing the same situation.
I have decided to take the risk, lets hope for the best.
Good Luck dear

 

[nano24482]

Dear Hasni,

Best of luck to you too....
Hope things are smooth as butter for you.
I'll keep you posted about any updates I received(especially medical or interview).

Regards,