Intend to do Msc this year but have no Bachelors degree.

[oicur0t]

Hi All,

I have significant IT Management experience (5+ years) and over 10+ years technology experience here in the UK. I do not however have a degree. I intend to take an Msc in an IT subject though as many institutions will allow extensive experience to gain access to a Masters course. How will this affect my points for my application as I will not have 17 years in education, so in essence it looks like this will be worth nothing. I feel slightly loathed to do a BA as I feel I am already well ahead of that level of education. Here in the UK I did A levels (then went into work), which according to this site http://www.britishcouncil.org/canada-education-parents-uk-education-system.htm should account for some points above the standard high school education in Canada. This site also says that Canadian education can be 11, 12 or 13 years depending on the province. Someone on this forum has suggested that the number of years over this may account for extra years study on the points system, but this is unclear as it depends on the province. This UK government website here http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/EducationAndLearning/Qualification*censored word*plained/DG_10039017 also points out that A levels are the equivalent of various post secondary education diplomas (level 3) here in the UK, the only equivalent item on the test. Can anyone clarify? What might I expect? Any help would be most appreciated.

thanks

James

 

[oicur0t]

OK that second link got edited by the automatic naughty word sensor! try again
ok, replace *censored word* with s E x (without the spaces)
A cut and paste....

Level 3

- A levels
- Advanced Extension Awards
- GCE in applied subjects
- International Baccalaureate
- Key Skills level 3
- NVQs
- BTEC Diplomas, Certificates and Awards
- BTEC Nationals
- OCR Nationals

- ability to gain or apply a range of knowledge, skills and understanding, at a detailed level

- appropriate if you plan to go to university, work independently, or (in some cases) supervise and train others in their field of work

 

[oicur0t]

Any takers on how my education will be graded?

 

[adnan_hsn]

North American education system prides itself to be way more structured than the UK. They are quite strict about qualifications and unlike UK its not possible to get into an MSc degree at a Canadian university without having a first degree. I can appreciate that your level of knowledge may be above an undergrade student but unfortunately, according to the instructions for FSW applications, you have to have a Bachelor degree before you can claim points for an MSc degree and/or 17 years of full-time education.

Another news which may surprise you is that when I finished my undergraduate degree from the UK, I made applications to Canadian universities for admission into a Master's course but my no university allowed me direct admission into their MSc courses without doing a 'foundation' year in Canada. Eventually I had to give up on the idea of going to Canada for education. So, you can judge for yourself what qualifications mean to them.

 

[oicur0t]

According to my application as a FSW would my MSc be treated as any other level of qualification on there (say one, two or three years certificate or diploma?) giving me some, albeit fewer points?

I can understand that I would not be rated as highly with someone who has an MSc and a bachelors degree, but I am unsure as to which level of education would be worthwhile for me and my career if I factor in a move to Canada. Currently it looks like I would have to do an entry level qualification to give me a 1 years diploma that would earn me more points than an MSc. It would be useful if the definition of trade certificates and diplomas were elaborated on a little considering your post above.

 

[BobbyB]

oicur0t,
If you will not have 17 study years, assuming you do the Msc in IT, would you have 14 years of schooling?

 

[rupeshhari]

I am going to take a wild guess here. So please take it only as a guess.

After you get your MSc, you will get as many points as implied by the number of years of education. Here is my reasoning.

CIC talks nothing about having a bachelors before your masters (i haven't read it anyway). If this is correct, i do believe CIC doesn't look at equivalency between your country's system and Canada's system. If it is possible in your country, i.e. UK, then it is quite okay with CIC.

Since you have a masters, if you had 17 years of education, you will get 25 points. If you don't have 17 years of education, you will go down to the number of points that is given for a degree and your number of years of education.

Remember, this is not about equivalency in the Canadian education system. This is also not about getting into Canadian University. It is about your qualification from your country which is recognized and allowed in your country.

Of course, I am wrong if there is a statement that says a person must have a bachelors before getting a masters on the CIC website.

In Germany, before the Bologna agreement, their first degrees were more equivalent to the UK masters. South Africa has similar system to the UK. I know someone who after their 3rd year in Germany went to SA for year abroad. He got her honours degree (which is considered a postgraduate degree) without have a BA (because in Germany he hadn't gotten any degree). He then did MA and then went on to do PhD at an Ivy league university in the US....all without a BA.

 

[BobbyB]

http://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/-t14913.0.html

 

[adnan_hsn]

Of course, I am wrong if there is a statement that says a person must have a bachelors before getting a masters on the CIC website.

Yes, you ARE wrong and the new rules DO say that you HAVE to have a Bachelor's degree AND a Master's degree to be able to claim points for Masters. Please refer to the instructions for filling in the new application forms.

 

[rupeshhari]

OK. Then I would write a letter to CIC with my application. It also says normally one must have a masters before PhD. It is quite common in the US to do a PhD without having a masters, even at top universities. I can't imagine all those people getting only points equivalent to a Bachelors. Of course, there is a good chance that CIC might not accept your explanation but it is worth to take the risk.

CIC did you use the word "normally" for the masters requirement before PhD. They did not say use normally for a bachelors before MSc, which means they may require a bachelors in all cases. Sorry.

 

[oicur0t]

Thanks for all the info. BobbyB, that link to information was useful.

I was intrigued by this

Education
Officers should assess programs of study and award points based on the standards that exist in
the country of study. The Regulations do not provide for comparisons to Canadian educational
standards;

Well, if included information from the government about my a levels being equivalent to various uk diplomas and 'post school' study, then that would be deemed a deciding factor as opposed to Canadian schooling. If this is so then I have enough points now. I can show how my A Levels are widely considered at the same level as many post school full time qualifications (from government sources) and I have at least 13 years of full time study.

Would this sound reasonable? Also is it reasonable to think that a 2/3year MSc would be deemed as a diploma etc.? I currently have 13 years study already, so this is all the points I would need in regard to the application.

Thanks again for all your help.