I am PR holder (not met RO) Travel on visitor visa (What if I stay?)

[jennythom91]

Hi I was wondering if someone can help me. I have been reading these threads and saw someone has a similar problem so thought I would share mine , hopefully someone has some insight.

I had PR in 2008 and have been travelling back and forth to the UK for work and then come to Canada for holidays. However I have not met the RO in the last 5 years. I think I'm half way there. Anyway, I have been travelling as a visitor as I have been - I was no longer residing there.

I am planning on coming back next week and have a flight booked for return to the UK end of June (so I should be there for a month) . As I have a visa exempt passport, I will still be travelling as a foreign national and will fill in the form as visitor again.

However, I was wondering what would happen if I just decide to stay? I have been having trouble with my job and I'm thinking of leaving. Therefore I may decide to stay longer than the month. I may end up staying permanently, as I do have family out there that I could reside with until I meet the RO again.

My every intention at the time of boarding and entering Canada is to come back - but I was wondering if I decided to stay and reside there, would there be issues when getting PR card?

I have spoken to immigration lawyer who said it would be classed as misrepresentation and I should be truthful at border.. but I would be - it's just a question at this point. He said if I wanted to know more then I would be charged $400.

Any help guys would be great.

Jen

 

[Rob_TO]

You should be fine. Once you are in Canada, generally the question of HOW you got into Canada is no longer relevant. Once here you're a PR so are entitled to stay here whether or not you entered under presumption of a foreign national or as a PR.

Just be aware when talking to immigration, CBSA can determine your PR status regardless of what you tell them. If you go to secondary inspection for any reason they will most likely discover you're a PR. Many PRs who don't meet the RO think they have automatically lost their PR status so are surprised when they find out from CBSA they are still a PR, and in majority of cases CBSA would just correct them. I imagine it's incredibly rare (not sure if it's ever happened), that CBSA would pursue criminal action or fines against a PR who attempted to enter as a visitor.

Note also that if discovered as a PR in violation of the RO, you could be reported when entering Canada. You could then accept this, or decide to appeal it. However it doesn't sound like you have any good H&C reason for not meeting RO so I imagine an appeal would eventually be denied and you would lose your PR status.

If you make it into Canada without being reported, then if you intend to keep your PR status you should stay here and not leave for any reason, until you are back in compliance with RO and can renew your PR card. Each time you left and returned, you would risk being reported. And after Sept 29 when eTA becomes mandatory, you can no longer fly to Canada as a PR with just your visa-exempt passport (can only drive over US land border).

 

[Bs65]

Just be aware that if you apply for an ETA your application will be rejected given you still have PR status and then you only get 2 options 1)apply for a travel document which will be a challenge as you probably cannot show residency 2)Renounce PR.

As said PR status does not automatically expire and as someone found out who was PR in 1980 but didnt meet RO at the time they only had these 2 options despite having been to Canada multiple times as a visa exempt visitor. So CIC had a record of PR going back 36 years as still in place.

 

[princessofdiamonds]

I had this too - Thanks for your reply Rob and Bs65 again


This is what worries me doing this - Do I still actually have PR? My mom and Dad have moved house since then - so what if any RO investigations went to an old address?
I got this when I applied for ETA back in March

A review of your Electronic Travel Authorization (eTA) application has revealed that you are, or once were, a Canadian permanent resident. Canadian permanent residents are expected to use their Canadian Permanent Resident Card when travelling abroad and are not eligible to apply for an eTA.
If you know you no longer meet your residency obligations because you have been outside Canada for a long period of time, your status still needs to be addressed before you can apply for an eTA to visit Canada. In this situation, you may choose to give up (renounce) your permanent resident status while applying for an eTA.
The two options outlined below are designed to help you address your status and travel to Canada. Choose one of the options and follow the instructions provided.
I would like to retain my Canadian Permanent Resident status.
Step 1 - If you do not have a permanent resident card, but would like to retain your Canadian Permanent Resident status and want to travel to Canada as a permanent resident, you must apply for a travel document (Permanent Resident Abroad).
You will find the application for a travel document (Permanent Resident Abroad) on our website at http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/information/applications/travel.asp.
Page 2 of 3
Step 2 - If applying for a travel document (Permanent Resident Abroad), you must also withdraw the Electronic Travel Authorization (eTA) application you have submitted to us. To withdraw your application, please upload a letter through your MyCIC account indicating that you have selected this option.
I would like to give up (renounce) my Canadian permanent resident status.
Step 1 - If you would like to give up (renounce) your Canadian permanent resident status, you must fill out and submit the Voluntary Renunciation of Permanent Resident Status application.
You will find the Application to Voluntarily Renounce Permanent Resident Status form on our website at http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/information/applications/guides/5781ETOC.asp.
Step 2 - It is important you submit the completed Application to Voluntarily Renounce
Permanent Resident Status form via your MyCIC account.
If your voluntary renunciation of permanent resident status is approved, we will proceed with processing the electronic Travel Authorization application you have already submitted. You do not need to submit a new application.
Should we fail to receive either application from you within 10 days, we will assume you have selected Option 1, and will withdraw your application for an electronic Travel Authorization.


I ignored it, I got an email back and it said withdrawn . I have travelled since this and not had any problems. But I'm still travelling as a visitor too not declaring PR.

So does this mean I still have it, if I received the email in the first place?

 

[Bs65]

Unless you formally renounced PR by filling in the form complete with a photo and a photocopy of your passport then you will still show as PR on the system.

This could cause issues later when ETAs are mandatory for non-PRs and PRs needing a PR card or travel document to travel by plane. Even if you think you are entering as a visitor likely as you are PR in the system you are probably entering as PR and your RO failure will possibly eventually catch up with you as will be a challenge to show residency for a travel document.

The tightening up of travel screening is likely to catch out a lot of PRs who have not met residency. Others can correct me if wrong.

 

[Rob_TO]

This is what worries me doing this - Do I still actually have PR? My mom and Dad have moved house since then - so what if any RO investigations went to an old address?
I got this when I applied for ETA back in March

Most likely yes, you still have PR. Many PRs not meeting RO have had eTA denied when mistakenly applied for, and no cases seen where a residency investigation happened.

So again whether you choose to disclose your PR status to CBSA when entering Canada, is up to you. If asked specifically you should be honest, and be aware they can determine your PR status and the fact you don't meet RO if they dig a bit in secondary inspection.

 

[Bs65]

Most likely yes, you still have PR. Many PRs not meeting RO have had eTA denied when mistakenly applied for, and no cases seen where a residency investigation happened.

So again whether you choose to disclose your PR status to CBSA when entering Canada, is up to you. If asked specifically you should be honest, and be aware they can determine your PR status and the fact you don't meet RO if they dig a bit in secondary inspection.

If seriously want to keep PR then need to stay in Canada for 2 years without leaving, the more keep going back and forth then at some point will be recognised have not met RO and with travel checks becoming more thorough then sooner or later.

 

[princessofdiamonds]

I just found this in an old thread


CBSA Publication 5113, Immigrating or Returning to Live in Canada (last updated on June 1, 2012),
CBSA Publication 5082, Visitors to Canada and Other Temporary Residents (last updated on December 5, 2012), and
CBSA Form 311, Declaration Card (last updated June 1, 2012).


"Persons entering Canada to become Permanent Residents without the intention of residing immediately in Canada are not considered Settlers to Canada since they do not have any intention of remaining in Canada at that time, and will live outside Canada for an undetermined period of time. Therefore, under customs legislation, these persons are considered visitors to Canada, even if they are Permanent Residents for immigration purposes"

Does this apply to me (and OP) ? I'm so confused

 

[Bs65]

I just found this in an old thread


CBSA Publication 5113, Immigrating or Returning to Live in Canada (last updated on June 1, 2012),
CBSA Publication 5082, Visitors to Canada and Other Temporary Residents (last updated on December 5, 2012), and
CBSA Form 311, Declaration Card (last updated June 1, 2012).


"Persons entering Canada to become Permanent Residents without the intention of residing immediately in Canada are not considered Settlers to Canada since they do not have any intention of remaining in Canada at that time, and will live outside Canada for an undetermined period of time. Therefore, under customs legislation, these persons are considered visitors to Canada, even if they are Permanent Residents for immigration purposes"

Does this apply to me (and OP) ? I'm so confused

my guess is that this is more to do with case where somebody is just activating PR but not settling at the time so any customs declaration of goods will follow at a later date when they come to settle permenantly. So customs treat them as a visitor not PR just for customs puposes. Personal interpretation

 

[Rob_TO]

Re: Residency obligation not meet: my options?

1. Should we surrender our PR card to the embassy?

It's up to you if you want to renounce your PR or not. You are right, your reasons don't seem to qualify under H&C.

2. Are we eligible for a renewal (I don't think H&C are applicable)?should I try to renew them?

No and no. You don't meet RO and you aren't living in Canada. You can't renew your PR status.

3. Could anyone send me a detailed (hyperlinks) for surrender/renewal procedure and docs?

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/information/applications/voluntarily-renounce.asp

After you renounce status, you can try to apply for PR again from scratch if you qualify for any current streams.