Guidance concerning a Conjugal Partner Application Please

[ash82]

Hi Everyone.

I'm new to this forum, but I have been reading a lot of useful information pertaining to applications for permanent residency in Canada. I was hoping anyone could give me some advice on my particular case. I will try to make it as point form as possible so as not to drag on.

My boyfriend and I have been together for over 2 years. He is from Jamaica, I am from Canada. We decided last year that we didn't want to continue "visiting" each other and want to live together, therefore we sent in an application for permanent residence. We applied under the Conjugal Partner category, as neither of us can be awarded long term stays in each others countries to qualify the for Common Law category, and we are not married, so don't qualify for Spousal application either. We are both aware of the "stipulations" regarding the Conjugal Partner application. Since April of 08, I have travelled back and forth to stay with him if not every month, at least every 2 months, for at least 10 days at a time. A rough estimate of the number of trips would be 15-20. We communicate daily via phone calls, and msn, countless times each day when I am not in Jamaica visiting him. We are in a healthy, monogomous, committed, and genuine relationship, and even though it is long distance, it is the most solid and secure relationship I have been in. Neither of us have children, or have ever been married before.

I sent in the application to CPC Missisauga in Sept 09, was approved as his sponser in Oct 09. File was transferred to Kingston, Jamaica, and he received a letter of acknowledgement the end of Oct 09 stating that applications of this nature normally take on average 6 months to complete. E-Cas states that they started processing his application on Nov 11, 09 and says "In Process". We made sure to send in everything that was requested, photos, declarations from a number of friends and family, phone bills, money transfers, passport showing the number of trips. Medical exam, and police record were done in advance and were compiled with the entire application as well as all fees paid prior.

My questions is, although it states in the OP manual that any foreign national who can be married to a canadian citizen is expected to do so before the immigration process takes place, it is still our constitutionally protected choice to be married or not right? We would like to live together and continue building our relationship as we have, without being forced into something we hadn't planned for as yet. And, judging from the amount of commitment and effort and dependence we have in this relationship, do we have a chance?

Also, if hypothetically, we were to get married while this application is still in process would we be able to submit our marriage certificate to the embassy and have them put it towards this application? Or, would they turn around, and make us Re-apply under the spouse category and start all over?

I apologize for the length of this post, but I wanted to give as much info as possible so I can potentially gain some advice. I thank anyone in advance.

 

[ColorMePanda]

It is true that it is your right as a human being to choose when to wed but you have to think in the IO's mind about the situation too. They need reassurance that you truly are a devoted and genuine couple and in most normal circumstances, a relationship such as that would lead to marriage. A marriage not only shows some permanence but also devotion and trust. If you are not ready as a couple to wed then I would suggest you not to but if you are then you can always wed now. Also, I believe what they mean by saying you are expected to get married before is to basically point out that if you are committed then you are expected to take the next gradual step such as marriage. Also, this could be a message more directed towards people who still believe they can apply under a fiance' category when there isn't one.

If you were to marry now, you would inform CIC about the change and you would submit things such as: marriage certificate, wedding photos, reception photos, lists of guests that attended, receipts, etc. Anything to show the marriage is a genuine one. Once you do that they will then finish processing the application as a spousal application. There would be no need to reapply.

 

[ash82]

Thank you so much for replying with your info. I really appreciate it.

We are not engaged, and do plan on being married one day, but our intent was years down the road. It wasn't really a big issue for me, until recently, as I'm kind of getting scared he'll be refused as a conjugal partner. Even though I make the effort and committment to see him almost each month, (I'm lucky enough to have a job that permits me to do this) and we can more than prove our relationship is genuine and continuing, and this isn't a "try-out" session, I still fear that we will be denied this way alone, based on the fact that we are not prevented from being married. I gather a lot of the outcome in these situations has to do with the particular IO that you have on your case.

Also, we have not heard anything regarding an interview, but if again, hypothetically, we got married, and it was close to the completion of the application...and we never got to submit it to the embassy...could we bring all evidence of a marriage and certificate to an interview and still be approved that way? or do you think it would be too late at that point, as maybe they would have processing done...

 

[ColorMePanda]

Well if nothing else, if you are a bit worried then you could always have a small civil ceremony and have a much bigger one years later like you planned. I am sure that with all the proof of your travels, you could easily be approved under the spousal category. All of those trips/visits show a lot of dedication to the relationship.

I too can speak from your side of the story because my partner and I hadn't planned on marrying until much later but when push came to shove we realized we would rather wed now than have a chance of being denied and without the other person.

I am not quite sure as to what would have if you submitted it at an interview but it might help add to the support. But then again it could already be too late as they would be assessing you for the conjugal category. I wish I could help you more with your last question but I answered to the best of my assumption.

And best of luck with your life together.
Always remember, "love conquers all".

 

[ash82]

Your input and advice is great, I really thank you for taking the time to reply. Any information anyone can provide me is welcomed.

 

[ColorMePanda]

I am really glad it helped you some.
I am wishing the best for you and your partner.

 

[chelley]

seems like you know the obsticles you are up against... from my research and understanding it is more common for refusal of conjugal applications when there is no barrier to the couple becoming legally married... while it's always up to the discrepency of the I/O, do understand that it seems the odds are against you... maybe if you were able to demonstrate your intentions to marriage (i.e. planning a large wedding that takes 2-3 years to organize or something), but as it stands, family class immigration is designed to unite families and without that "civil bond" you cannot show an I/O that your intention is to be a family (basically seems that you are trying it out unless you can prove otherwise)... sucks i know... when my other half was declined for a visit i looked into conjugal and did a lot of research on it... we ended up getting married (and pregnant lol) (our application was approved from kingston in 5m and 5d from date of submittal, our timelines look identical, we submitted in sept 09 and were transfered on nov 11 too)

kingston is not known to be a quick processing office and your case will likely take you down a slower stream, so i suspect you would have time to marry and submit the certificiate... not sure exactly how that would look (make your case stronger or make them look even deeper into it)... from recent months, kingston has processed simple, single spouse applicant cases in around 7 months.... more complicated cases are taking 10-20+ months, i suspect you will fall in the second category, although i've not seen anyone process from conjugal out of KG so i can't say for sure.... switching "categories" would likely slow it down regardless...

with the simplicity of your situation and amount of evidence you have supporting a genuine relationship, i'm inclined to think that if you were to marry, withdrawing your application and re-submitting as married would be a faster route (if possible)... not sure if there are any legal stipulations that prevent this... if no one here can tell you, maybe you can find out from the call centre...

good luck...

 

[ash82]

Wow, thanks for replying with your info.

10-20 mos for processing? Well, that just plain sucks. And you are right, the odds are definitely against us. We thought we were going about it the most honest and sincere way, but its probably not going to work in our favor. All we have is our word, basically, against the IO, and they hold the power. We will get married, but I think it is completely unjust for another person to depict when and how that should take place.

I'm not sure about withdrawing our application. What would happen to the fees paid? It seems to me, maybe this would be more of a headache, then letting the original application run its course, while continuing to travel back and forth. I truly am getting a little discouraged...in the beginning I thought for sure no one could look at this relationship and see anything but a committed, genuine "marriage-like" union, however now I wonder how easily convinced, or compassionate an IO is.

Lucky for you it took such a short period of time to process, although I'm sure while it was being assessed, it seemed like forever and a day.

I'm also assuming that in these cases, there would be a definite interview required...or does anyone think that there is a possibility they would just request a passport? Total longshot, I know....

 

[chelley]

i'm not sure at what point in the process you loose your fees to be honest.. i know that you will likely loose the $75 sponsor fee... i *think* you may get back the 475 applicant fee if you w/d before it's complete? don't know... you'd def get back the 490 PR fee....

not sure what the reprecussions with submitting a marriage certificate in an already processing case... the previous poster stated it's possible but i suspect it's not just as easy as handing it in and they say ahhhh okay, lets go... when you are changing a major factor in the situation, they might want to know why (interview) or do a more detailed examination of the situation... who knows what the I/O will do or respond to this situation...

the 10-20+ months is based on observations on trackit and the kingston forum on this board (along with their cases)... i'm sure you received a form letter saying 6m, but i suspect if they can't find the concrete evidence on why you are applying conjugal they would want to review further (add a month or two), possibly (probably) interview (add a couple months) and by then you're looking at medicals expiring after a year (add more months) so even if your case was approved, there's a good chance it'd be taking 14-16+ months... from what i've seen, 6m is fairly optomistic even in very simple cases... which i'd not personally call a conjugal case with no "real" reason preventing marriage... but i'm not an I/O!!! anything is possible and believing in that helps a lot to make the wait bearable..

as far as proving it... understand that the proof that you're facing is not in the genuine-ness of your relationship, while i'm not an I/O, i think you've got a solid case there... but rather the proof that your relationship qualifies as conjugal (in which case, unfortunately, your reasoning is, by their standards, weak...) sadly in cases of immigration, compassion is not always their primary approach... things are done by a strict set of rules and guidelines.... they can, and do, decline applications because they do not meet those guidelines...

(my wait was before we applied, i was pregnant and decided to spend the processing time and my mat leave here in jamaica with my other half.. so it was a painful 9m, applied the day before my son was born and have been here for 5m... we were braced for the long haul (9-11m) but the immigration gods smiled on us and now we're in the unusal situation of having a visa we really have no plans on using for another couple months... we were not interviewed... others with similar timelines to mine (under 7m) also were not interviewed )

as far as withdrawing, i'm not sure it's the best route, i just suspect, based on what i've seen, that your timelines would be faster (but i've not seen conjugal out of kingston, only other places)... i think finding out what your options are when you marry and maybe posting a thread asking for experience directly with getting married after applying conjugal and seeing what others in the situation (if any) might have done...

 

[ash82]

This is great, a whole heap of greatly appreciated information

As Far as having a small civil ceremony, we are thinking the first week in May, to obtain the marriage certificate. Even though I always dreamed of having your picture book wedding, I guess it can always be redone in style. Unless I try to explain to an IO that it would be impossible for my entire family to drop everything and pay prob $1500 a head to attend our nuptuals. It takes time, and preparations. I'm still a little concerned as to either this will aide our case, or make things more complicated. I think I will make a call to the call center tomorrow, and see what kind of information they can give me.

Do you or anyone know anything about requesting CAIPS? I don't really know what this is, but I've seen it around in posts, and I'm thinking maybe it could give me some direct insight on our particular case.

 

[AllisonVSC]

Ash82 you said "We made sure to send in everything that was requested, photos, declarations from a number of friends and family, phone bills, money transfers, passport showing the number of trips. Medical exam, and police record were done in advance and were compiled with the entire application as well as all fees paid prior." These are important parts of proving a genuine relationship, but the IO will also be looking for proof that you have an INTERDEPENDENT relationship that moves beyond the boyfriend/girlfriend dating type of relationship. Specifically they are looking for proof of the LEVEL of interdependence in four specific areas - physically, emotionally, financially and socially. I'm sure the evidence you mentioned will confirm the physical, social, and emotional requirements. But you only mentioned money transfers as evidence for financial. Do you have evidence like joint bank accounts, credit cards, or joint purchases? Have you listed each other as beneficiaries on life insurance policies?

I know that asking these questions after you've already applied may seem pointless, but if you have this type of evidence and didn't include it, you may want to send it to add to the strength of your case. You may also want to read the OP 2 manual that the IO use as a guide for assessing applications. In particular sections 5.25 and 5.26 refer to conjugal partners. Pages 19 and 20 provide their definition of conjugal partners and list the types of evidence they are looking for in an application.

www.cic.gc.ca/ENGLISH/RESOURCES/manuals/op/op02-eng.pdf

I wish you all the best in your journey. I know it's tough and can be very discouraging. I also applied in the conjugal partner category. We had no barrier to marriage either and because we were a US/CAN couple I was told several times on these forums that we had no chance of being approved. But we made it and you can too!

 

[ash82]

Well, it is definitely nice and encouraging to hear of someone who has been approved within this category. Shines a miniscule ray of light towards our case.

We don't have joint bank accounts or credit cards. I live at home with my parents so that I could afford to be continuing to visit him as frequent as I do. I'm basically there when I'm not working, so it's as if we live together in some sort of relevance, kind of like commuting to and from Jamaica for work on my part. So we didn't see the need to combine affairs such as those only for the reason that we use our money together when I'm there anyways, any purchases just like a regular household are made together, but in hinesight I never thought to document anything. It's simple for me to send money to him if there is a need, which rarely happens anyway. We are interdependant and share expenses of certain things, but as well are independant financially as well.

AllisonVSC, maybe you could share with me all of the documents or evidence you included in your application that helped your case? You could message me, if you don't want to post it publicly....maybe I could then compare as to what we have with our application to see what we are lacking....

Again, thank you so much everyone for your help!

 

[ash82]

Also AllisonVSC, maybe you could let me know what took place throughout your application, and if there was an interview, how it went? Just to give me some insight on an "actual" conjugal partner case that was approved!

 

[AllisonVSC]

Here is the text from one of my early posts...

"Our application was over 200 pages and included many emails which established our love and mutual respect for each other, our attempts to reconcile the long distance/different country problem and our interdependency (I included some where he was talking about his concerns for his son's school performance). We drafted a chronology of our relationship with pictures of us together and with each other's families from 2004-present. I included the handwritten draft with both our writing on it and a typed "final" document with imbedded pictures. There were flight itineraries, copies of joint bank statements and insurance beneficiary info, extensive evidence that he tried to find a job in the US, copies of the stamps in our passports, about ten letters and emails from friends and family declaring our relationship to be true and genuine. I wanted to make sure our application was convincing because I had heard that conjugal partner status was hard to get if there is no barrier to marrying. I also carefully labeled and bundled each section to match the document checklist to make the IO's job as easy as possible. We did not explain why we didn't marry except on the question of was there a ceremony or recognition to which I replied no, because it was not appropriate. By the way, we are (I laugh before I even type this because I don't think of us this way) an older couple; I'm 45 and he's 52. We have both been married and divorced. He has a grown son here in Canada and I have no children. I think it was pretty clear in our application that we had seriously considered all the alternatives for making a life together (he moves to the US, I move here, or we both move somewhere else). I originally intended to apply for skilled worker status but my profession was removed from the list just as I was starting the process. Conjugal partner was a last resort. I hope you find my reply informative. Best wishes for a speedy and successful process."

We submitted our application in early Aug 2009, got sponsorship approval about a month later. Our application was sent to Buffalo and we got approved in just less than 3 months start to finish. I was not asked for an interview and went to the embassy in Buffalo to submit my passport and drove into Canada to land.

 

[ash82]

Excellent! First and foremost, congratulations. What a solid application!

I feel as though our application may be inadequate compared to yours. Although, we did compile each pertinent piece of information that we felt would be of value, and help an IO in assessing our case. But this gives me a great idea of how an approved conjugal partner application looks. Thank you!