Genuine Elopement

[azarme09]

First some details:

- Passport: Pakistani
- Last 4.5 years: Student in the US
- Marital status: Divorced (previous spouse was a British citizen so I DO have the British residency letter I got from the UKBA but we divorced before we started living together. It was a shitty marriage.)
- Marital status of fiance: Divorced (he has been married twice before, once to a Canadian citizen and once to an American citizen, although he never started the PR application for his American ex-wife because she was still in law school at the time)
- Age: 25
- Fiance's age: 38

Case details:

My fiance and I have been so far unsuccessful in convincing our parents. We had been family friends since April 2012. His cousins and friends in Pakistan are very good friends of mine and that's how we ended up in each other's circles. We are also atheists (though our families are liberal Muslims), so that's another reason how we got connected through mutual network. Our relationship began in July 2013.

I was visiting him here but then we decided that long-distance is going to be a very troubling thing for us. Also, I won't be as free to travel to Canada on my Pakistani passport and because of my fiance's workload, it would also be a difficult for him to make frequent trips to the US, if I had decided to take the job offers there. So while I was visiting him in November, we decided that I should come back for Christmas and if I see fit, I should move in with him.

He introduced me to his entire family during Christmas and they all seemed to like me but the biggest issue was that his mother has been insisting him to take the arranged marriage route this time. The disapproval grew stronger as our relationship became more public. His mother is not at all comfortable with him marrying me and she has been trying to push back for months now. There is also the factor that both of us are rather vocal and assertive atheists, which is an issue our mothers are trying to cope with but are not doing a good job so far.

But as the situation is, we can't wait for approval from his family. From my end, my family is reluctant because they want his mother to approach them with the proposal, as most South Asian families are. Also, my family is back in Pakistan.

This leaves us with no choice but to take the elopement route. The wedding is not a secret but since we do not like big weddings (both of us have been married before), we don't want to spend a fortune one a wedding AGAIN. On top of that, we don't want our friends to go through the usual wedding hassle for us. We also do not want ANY sort of religious ceremony. We are getting married later this week with 4 of our close friends present there. Later in March, we are throwing a small dinner party for a bigger group of friends.

Our relationship is very public (it's all over our facebook/Twitter/Instagram), especially since we are public speakers and writers, we do get a decent following and everyone is aware of the relationship.

We are hiring a professional photographer and have bought wedding stuff etc for each of us. It IS a real wedding.

Now the issue is, our families are not going to be a part of the ceremony. We are hoping that when our families have accepted our relationship, we will have a formal dinner party but that will be months from now at least and my TRV expires in May.

Do you think that if I explain the situation to CIC, they'll be considerate about it? Also, should I send them the big, fat wedding album we'll be ordering along with the application? Will they return the album back to us?

We have PLENTY of email, chat, photos, phone etc evidence. Do you think I will still have a strong case given the hostility from the family?

Thanks so much for you help!

Love,
A

 

[Alurra71]

I think you should explain it to CIC just as you've explained it here. I can understand why/how you ended up doing it this way and the VO's, although they seemingly hold our happiness in their hands, are only humans and will too see how you arrived at this juncture. I would also include some photographs that have meaning and show my true relationship with my spouse. It is quality, not quantity. Find the best quality photos that express you and your husband and include those with your application.

I am not sure if they return things to you or not. I know on my Inland application, I did not get any of the items I sent returned to me. I have heard others using outland methods have received their items back.

Best of luck to you and have a fantastic wedding day!

 

[Gumper]

Wow, what a scenario! Did your fiance apply for PRV in Canada before with his 1st wife?

 

[Rob_TO]

You do have lots of red flags in your application. The biggest hurdles I see are:
- relationship is not "typical" of others from your home country.
- wedding will have no parents attending
- you started dating in July 2013, and are now getting married just 7 months later. That is very quick, as the "normal" time for a relationship before getting married is around 1 year.

You can try to explain as best you can your unique situation, but in the end it's entirely up to the personal feeling of the VO reviewing your file. Get a more liberal modern thinking VO and you could be fine, but get an old school traditional one... and they could cause problems. Lots of this process comes down to luck. All you can really do is explain, submit lots of proofs, and hope for the best.

And do NOT submit an entire album. Choose pictures from various parts of the small wedding and reception, showing friends/family that do attend, and include those separately with brief description of each picture.

 

[marlasinger]

That's a hell of a story, but totally understandable. I think there are probably a couple of things in there that could be considered a red flag to your VO when going through it. For example, number of passed marriages, age difference, how quickly you married and maybe how your relationship and wedding is not traditional to your home country/religion of your family.

My suggestion would be to fill out the forms where they ask for the details of your relationship and wedding, as honestly and factual as possible. And then include in the supporting documents, "essays" or letters from both you and your spouse explaining your relationship - how you came together, fell in love, why you work as a couple and why you choose to have the wedding the way you did. Explain all the things you've explained here. Play up the things you have in common, for instance your atheism and how you both go against your families' religious traditions which you don't agree with, and that it bonds you. My husband and I are both atheists as well, and it really had a lot to do with how we initially connected, so I totally understand that element. Just try to really show that how you connect on an intellectual level is important to both of you, connects you and that you both rely on each other to deal with your families' disapproval.

You could also include letters from friends attesting to the genuineness of your relationship. Perhaps there are members of your families, who do approve, that might be willing to write something as well? From there, try to include as much proof as possible that your relationship has always been real - emails, text screencaps, proof of trips together and visits to each other, even things from facebook and instagram that show dates and interaction, pictures of you together and with friends/family. Don't send an entire album. All pictures should be loose. My suggestion would be to do pictures in a word document and type in a label beside each photo - who's in the picture and the date it was taken. But you can also do actual pictures and write on the back of them. I chose to do a timeline in a word document with pictures - I found it more organized and economical. I think you'll be okay. Just be detailed so a stranger going through it can really understand what your relationship, even if it isn't typical. That doesn't mean it can't be true. Good luck!

 

[azarme09]

No. He has been a Canadian citizen since the 90s. He came here with his family after completing medschool.

Wow, what a scenario! Did your fiance apply for PRV in Canada before with his 1st wife?

 

[azarme09]

Yes, we understand that it is not typical of Pakistanis at all but I believe that would be a plus point instead of a red flag, given the situation. Further, in my family's sectarian (Ismaili Muslim - quite popular in Canada for their humanitarian work) tradition, brides usually wear a white saree for Nikkah (the Islamic wedding). But since we both are averse to religious rites, we won't be having a Nikkah. However, we do have cultural attachments, and at least in my case, I will still be wearing a bridal white saree.

My dad is aware of the situation but he can't attend the wedding for 2 reasons:
1. Pressure from my mother
2. He lives in Pakistan

We started dating in July 2013 but we had been best friends since way before then. I will mention that in my application packet.

You do have lots of red flags in your application. The biggest hurdles I see are:
- relationship is not "typical" of others from your home country.
- wedding will have no parents attending
- you started dating in July 2013, and are now getting married just 7 months later. That is very quick, as the "normal" time for a relationship before getting married is around 1 year.

You can try to explain as best you can your unique situation, but in the end it's entirely up to the personal feeling of the VO reviewing your file. Get a more liberal modern thinking VO and you could be fine, but get an old school traditional one... and they could cause problems. Lots of this process comes down to luck. All you can really do is explain, submit lots of proofs, and hope for the best.

And do NOT submit an entire album. Choose pictures from various parts of the small wedding and reception, showing friends/family that do attend, and include those separately with brief description of each picture.

 

[azarme09]

Thank you!

As many others have said the same thing, I will not be sending my wedding album. I could, however, attach the payment receipt as part of the
"wedding costs" I guess? Mine will be an inland application as well. I just do not want them to put me in a situation where we would have to do long distance again. Both of us have been in long distance marriages before and we just don't think that they work for us...

I think you should explain it to CIC just as you've explained it here. I can understand why/how you ended up doing it this way and the VO's, although they seemingly hold our happiness in their hands, are only humans and will too see how you arrived at this juncture. I would also include some photographs that have meaning and show my true relationship with my spouse. It is quality, not quantity. Find the best quality photos that express you and your husband and include those with your application.

I am not sure if they return things to you or not. I know on my Inland application, I did not get any of the items I sent returned to me. I have heard others using outland methods have received their items back.

Best of luck to you and have a fantastic wedding day!

 

[azarme09]

Thank you! Your tips are very helpful

That's a hell of a story, but totally understandable. I think there are probably a couple of things in there that could be considered a red flag to your VO when going through it. For example, number of passed marriages, age difference, how quickly you married and maybe how your relationship and wedding is not traditional to your home country/religion of your family.

My suggestion would be to fill out the forms where they ask for the details of your relationship and wedding, as honestly and factual as possible. And then include in the supporting documents, "essays" or letters from both you and your spouse explaining your relationship - how you came together, fell in love, why you work as a couple and why you choose to have the wedding the way you did. Explain all the things you've explained here. Play up the things you have in common, for instance your atheism and how you both go against your families' religious traditions which you don't agree with, and that it bonds you. My husband and I are both atheists as well, and it really had a lot to do with how we initially connected, so I totally understand that element. Just try to really show that how you connect on an intellectual level is important to both of you, connects you and that you both rely on each other to deal with your families' disapproval.

You could also include letters from friends attesting to the genuineness of your relationship. Perhaps there are members of your families, who do approve, that might be willing to write something as well? From there, try to include as much proof as possible that your relationship has always been real - emails, text screencaps, proof of trips together and visits to each other, even things from facebook and instagram that show dates and interaction, pictures of you together and with friends/family. Don't send an entire album. All pictures should be loose. My suggestion would be to do pictures in a word document and type in a label beside each photo - who's in the picture and the date it was taken. But you can also do actual pictures and write on the back of them. I chose to do a timeline in a word document with pictures - I found it more organized and economical. I think you'll be okay. Just be detailed so a stranger going through it can really understand what your relationship, even if it isn't typical. That doesn't mean it can't be true. Good luck!

 

[Rob_TO]

Mine will be an inland application as well.

This should be better for the application. VOs from an overseas office doing outland applications, are more likely to use any differences in relationships/wedding from the cultural norm of that region, against the applicant.
An inland VO processing apps of people from all over the world living in Canada, should (i'm guessing) be more "Canadian" in their review and more open to relationships that don't totally meet the norm of their place of citizenship.

Just keep in mind that during the entire inland process (so up to around 1.5 years) you must remain in Canada living with your husband, and can't leave for any reason.