Full Time Work Question - Does Off Campus (pre PGWP) count?

[justtheme]

Hi,

I'm applying for permanent residency under CEC as a Foreign Worker. Hope you have an answer for this.

I have 2 years and 5 days of full-time work experience. I started working on December 14, 2009, after completing all the requirements of a 1 year post grad program.

At first, I worked under my Off-Campus work permit, then using a PGWP and after that a closed permit with my current company.

Here's my question: Do the 2 full years count even if I started under my Off-Campus permit? I had already completed all the requirements of my program and I'm not applying as a former student.

Here are two quotes that make me think I can:

OP25: "For the Temporary Foreign Worker Stream, the applicant must have 24 months of fulltime equivalent Canadian skilled-work experience at NOC 0, A or B acquired in Canada, within the 36 months preceding the date their application is made"

OP12, page 29: "Transition from off-campus work permits to post-graduation work permits Students can apply for a post-graduation work permit—a one-time opportunity—during the 90- day transition period on completion of their academic program if they fulfil all of the requirements for the PGWPP. Since the validity period of an off-campus work permit is usually the same as the student's study period (the duration of the academic program plus 90 days), they do not have to surrender their off-campus work permit to apply. They can continue to work under the off-campus work permit provided that they hold both a valid study permit and a valid off-campus work permit.
Employment during this transition period can be full-time."

The 2 full years do count, right?

 

[jes_ON]

No, I don't think so. First, to recap: You only completed 1 year of education, and so are applying under the worker stream and need 2 years of work experience.

It is not clear whether the time you worked while still on an off-campus work permit will be considered.

First, according to the OP 25, eligible work must be completed after graduation from the program (not merely upon completion of requirements). So any work performed before graduation would not count.

Second, after graduation, there is a transition period from the off-campus work permit to the PGWP. You are authorized to work, but the available information isn't clear whether or not it is considered for CEC purposes - under the post graduate stream. You aren't, so it's even less clear if you can count that experience. I would suggest counting your 2 years beginning with the date of your PGWP (even though that might mean working a couple of extra months before submitting your application).

What the OP 25 says about post-graduate work, p. 18:
www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/manuals/op/op25-eng.pdf


For the Post-Graduation Stream, the applicant must have obtained 12 months of fulltime
equivalent Canadian skilled-work experience within the 24 months preceding the
date of application [R87.1(2)(a)(i)-(ii)]. This experience must be acquired after they have
completed the required program of study and obtained a Canadian educational
credential. (Work performed under the Off-Campus Work Permit Program or on a co-op
work term does not count).

p. 25:
Eligible work experience under the Post-Graduation Stream of the CEC must occur after graduation. Work performed on an Off-Campus Work Permit (during studies) does not count under the CEC.

 

[justtheme]

Thanks for your reply Jes. I would apply under the foreign worker stream. That's why I'm counting 2 years of work experience. The 'after graduation' rule wouldn't apply. So the 2 years should count because I was working full time with a valid work permit. Right?

 

[jes_ON]

Thanks for your reply Jes. I would apply under the foreign worker stream. That's why I'm counting 2 years of work experience. The 'after graduation' rule wouldn't apply. So the 2 years should count because I was working full time with a valid work permit. Right?

Again, no. The "graduation rule" would still apply because no work experience while you are a student can be considered under either stream - and you are a student until you graduate.

 

[justtheme]

Again, no. The "graduation rule" would still apply because no work experience while you are a student can be considered under either stream - and you are a student until you graduate.

Another question Jes (and thanks a lot for your insight). I've worked for 40 hour weeks for 20 months as an employee (T4 slips at the end of each year). That gives me more room, right? I also worked extra hours and I got paid for them. I think I read in one of your comments that 3900 would be the minimum? Is that totally for sure?

Ps. Are you an immigration consultant? You seem you know your stuff pretty well

 

[jes_ON]

Another question Jes (and thanks a lot for your insight). I've worked for 40 hour weeks for 20 months as an employee (T4 slips at the end of each year). That gives me more room, right? I also worked extra hours and I got paid for them. I think I read in one of your comments that 3900 would be the minimum? Is that totally for sure?
Ps. Are you an immigration consultant? You seem you know your stuff pretty well

Unfortunately, no - the requirements are a minimum of 24 months of full time work, or 24 months plus the equivalent of full time work (3900) for part-time workers - this means that people whose job hours are less than 37.5 hours per week can still qualify, but it takes longer than 2 years. Extra hours, overtime, etc. don't matter, you still need to complete 24 months.

No, I'm not a certified immigration consultant - I know this stuff because my application process was not smooth either, and I had to learn all the little rules to qualify...

 

[justtheme]

Again, no. The "graduation rule" would still apply because no work experience while you are a student can be considered under either stream - and you are a student until you graduate.

I was re-reading this threat and comparing it to what the OP 25 manual says:

9.11. Work experience
For the Temporary Foreign Worker Stream, the applicant must have 24 months of fulltime equivalent Canadian skilled-work experience at NOC 0, A or B acquired in Canada, within the 36 months preceding the date their application is made.

For the Post-Graduation Stream, the applicant must have obtained 12 months of fulltime equivalent Canadian skilled-work experience within the 24 months preceding the date of application [R87.1(2)(a)(i)-(ii)]. This experience must be acquired after they have completed the required program of study and obtained a Canadian educational credential. (Work performed under the Off-Campus Work Permit Program or on a co-op work term does not count).

The applicant does not have to be employed at the time of application, but they must have temporary status during the period of work experience [R87.1(3)(b)].

Any periods of self-employment or unauthorized work will not be included in calculating the period of work experience [R87.1(3)(b)].

The "after graduation" doesn't count for the foreign worker stream. I already have a bachelor degree in communication sciences and at the time I was a post-grad student with a valid full-time work permit. It is very clear that the restriction does not refer to the foreign worker stream.

Correct me if I'm wrong...

 

[Leon]

I think it does not apply to the worker stream but I also think it could be interpreted both ways. If you apply now and get a visa officer who decides that you are 3 months short and denies your application, by the time they deny you, you will qualify and you can apply again right away but you will have lost a lot more time than if you had just waited the 3 months.

 

[justtheme]

I think it does not apply to the worker stream but I also think it could be interpreted both ways. If you apply now and get a visa officer who decides that you are 3 months short and denies your application, by the time they deny you, you will qualify and you can apply again right away but you will have lost a lot more time than if you had just waited the 3 months.

Thanks for your reply Leon. I think there's nothing to interpret. The sentence is very clear and it doesn't refer to the foreign worker stream. It's clearly part of the paragraph for Post-Grad students.

Using your logic, then I would also have to comply with the rest of that paragraph, which obviously makes no sense as both categories have different requirements.

I can't work for 3 extra months. My WP expired and an extension was denied.

 

[justtheme]

I prolly just need a representative that can back me up during the process because I'm legally protected.

 

[Leon]

I can't work for 3 extra months. My WP expired and an extension was denied.

Then try it. You have nothing to lose.

 

[jes_ON]

I agree - you have nothing to lose - and you've convinced me that your work experience on the off-campus work permit SHOULD be counted, given the current guidance in the OP 25. . .

You are really running into all the red tape, aren't you? Have you given up on a new LMO application?

 

[justtheme]

I agree - you have nothing to lose - and you've convinced me that your work experience on the off-campus work permit SHOULD be counted, given the current guidance in the OP 25. . .

You are really running into all the red tape, aren't you? Have you given up on a new LMO application?

Thanks Jes and Leon. I haven't given up on the LMO. My company is applying and we're actually going to retain lawyers for that. A positive LMO should pave the way for a safe and pretty straight forward CEC application.

 

[Leon]

It says here: http://www.hrsdc.gc.ca/eng/workplaceskills/foreign_workers/intstugrad.shtml that an employer does not have to show recruitment efforts when applying for an LMO for a graduate coming off a PGWP. Does that help you?

 

[justtheme]

It says here: http://www.hrsdc.gc.ca/eng/workplaceskills/foreign_workers/intstugrad.shtml that an employer does not have to show recruitment efforts when applying for an LMO for a graduate coming off a PGWP. Does that help you?

I already passed that stage. This is my second WP after the PGWP. Thanks though!