+1(514) 937-9445 or Toll-free (Canada & US) +1 (888) 947-9445

Form IMM 5409 and statutory declarations

boaz

Full Member
Apr 29, 2012
43
0
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
Hi all,
I am Canadian citizen who currently lives in Israel and want to sponsor my common law partner (she’s an Israeli citizen who lives in Israel as well).
I read the forum and the CIC guides carefully and still have some questions…
1. Should we fill and submit the ‘statuary declaration of common law union’ form (IMM 5409) or not? On the checklist it says to submit it “if you have a co-signer and he/she is your common law partner”…
2. On the specific country section it says “at least two statutory declarations from individuals with personal knowledge of your relationship supporting your claim that the relationship is genuine and continuing”. What exactly it means? Should these declarations be notarized or signed by someone except the people who make them?
Any help or advice will be most appreciated…
Best,
Boaz
 

boaz

Full Member
Apr 29, 2012
43
0
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
please help

does anyone have any experience or advice?
 

OhCanadiana

VIP Member
Feb 27, 2010
3,086
217
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
boaz said:
Hi all,
I am Canadian citizen who currently lives in Israel and want to sponsor my common law partner (she's an Israeli citizen who lives in Israel as well).
I read the forum and the CIC guides carefully and still have some questions...
1. Should we fill and submit the ‘statuary declaration of common law union' form (IMM 5409) or not? On the checklist it says to submit it “if you have a co-signer and he/she is your common law partner”...
2. On the specific country section it says “at least two statutory declarations from individuals with personal knowledge of your relationship supporting your claim that the relationship is genuine and continuing”. What exactly it means? Should these declarations be notarized or signed by someone except the people who make them?
Any help or advice will be most appreciated...
Best,
Boaz
1. Not required. If you are sponsoring your common-law partner, she cannot be your co-signer
2. A statutory declaration is a sworn statement so their letters should be notarized
 

boaz

Full Member
Apr 29, 2012
43
0
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
Great... thanks for your answers.
just to make sure (because i'm very new to this forum)... Does people here answer from pesonal experince?

Boaz
 

mc1234

Champion Member
Aug 30, 2011
1,343
8
Category........
Visa Office......
Mexico City
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
23-04-2012
Doc's Request.
20/08/2012 - PGR and SSP
AOR Received.
Ottawa: 23/07/2012 Mexico City: 20/08/2012
File Transfer...
24/07/2012
Med's Done....
12-04-2012
Interview........
Waived!
Passport Req..
08-11-2012
VISA ISSUED...
15-11-2012
LANDED..........
23-11-2012
OhCanadiana said:
1. Not required. If you are sponsoring your common-law partner, she cannot be your co-signer
2. A statutory declaration is a sworn statement so their letters should be notarized
I thought the statutory declartion was nesc. for common-law applications? We did one, will they discard it?
 

OhCanadiana

VIP Member
Feb 27, 2010
3,086
217
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
boaz said:
Great... thanks for your answers.
You're welcome. And welcome to the forum :)

boaz said:
just to make sure (because i'm very new to this forum)... Does people here answer from pesonal experince?

Boaz
I answered your questions based on my understanding from having read the instruction manuals (I've read them enough times now that I remember bits and pieces). I went in to look for the exact quotes for you:

1. From IMM3900, the instruction manual for Outland spousal, common-law, and conjugal partners available at http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/information/applications/guides/3900ETOC.asp states in the section:

Application to Sponsor, Sponsorship Agreement and Undertaking (IMM 1344)
Part 1: Application to Sponsor and Undertaking

"Question 3
Check one box to indicate if you have a co-signer or not.

Only your spouse or common-law partner can co-sign this application.

Note: If you are sponsoring your spouse or common-law partner, you cannot have a co-signer."

Therefore, since since your common-law partner cannot be your co-signer, the form is not required and you need take the undertaking by yourself.

2. I answered based on the definition of statutory declaration

"Definition
Assertion of the knowledge of a circumstance, event, or fact, made in a prescribed manner before a Commissioner of Oaths, Justice Of Peace, or a Notary Public. Although a statutory declaration has the same effect as an affidavit, it is used only in out-of-court (extra judicial) proceedings."
Source: http://www.businessdictionary.com/definition/statutory-declaration.html

In terms of how people answer generally in here, there's a variety of personalities which you'll get to know over time - some are more fact based, some are more experience based, and others are based on personal beliefs. People also have different risk tolerances so I would suggest taking things with a grain of salt and don't hesitate to ask folks for sources for their answers. :)
 

OhCanadiana

VIP Member
Feb 27, 2010
3,086
217
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
mc1234 said:
I thought the statutory declartion was nesc. for common-law applications? We did one, will they discard it?
As Boaz mentioned, on the checklist it says to submit form 5409 “if you have a co-signer and he/she is your common law partner.". If you are sponsoring your common law partner, s/he cannot be your co-signer. Therefore the form is not necessary.

They will either ignore the form or confirm with you that you are taking the undertaking by yourself.

To avoid confusion, you do need to submit statutory declarations from other people on your relationship - just not form 5409.
 

mc1234

Champion Member
Aug 30, 2011
1,343
8
Category........
Visa Office......
Mexico City
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
23-04-2012
Doc's Request.
20/08/2012 - PGR and SSP
AOR Received.
Ottawa: 23/07/2012 Mexico City: 20/08/2012
File Transfer...
24/07/2012
Med's Done....
12-04-2012
Interview........
Waived!
Passport Req..
08-11-2012
VISA ISSUED...
15-11-2012
LANDED..........
23-11-2012
OhCanadiana said:
As Boaz mentioned, on the checklist it says to submit form 5409 “if you have a co-signer and he/she is your common law partner.". If you are sponsoring your common law partner, s/he cannot be your co-signer. Therefore the form is not necessary.

They will either ignore the form or confirm with you that you are taking the undertaking by yourself.

To avoid confusion, you do need to submit statutory declarations from other people on your relationship - just not form 5409.
Oh no! I hope this doesnt delay our application :(
 

boaz

Full Member
Apr 29, 2012
43
0
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
Thanks again for the detailed information :)

That was what I thought... since my common law partner can't be a co-signer as well it seems logical that we do not need to submit the form if we stick to the checklist words...

i need HELP in one more thing if possible (i did post it in a diffrent subject but it does'nt seem to get any replies yet...)

what should be written in those declarations made by our friends & family? does someone have a good format/template for that?

Cheers,

Boaz
 

OhCanadiana

VIP Member
Feb 27, 2010
3,086
217
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
mc1234 said:
Oh no! I hope this doesnt delay our application :(
If you signed the undertaking yourself - without your other half - it likely won't since they'll likely just ignore it.

Either way, CPC-M reportedly is reaching out to folks via e-mail with questions or to request updates so it won't a long delay :)
 

mc1234

Champion Member
Aug 30, 2011
1,343
8
Category........
Visa Office......
Mexico City
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
23-04-2012
Doc's Request.
20/08/2012 - PGR and SSP
AOR Received.
Ottawa: 23/07/2012 Mexico City: 20/08/2012
File Transfer...
24/07/2012
Med's Done....
12-04-2012
Interview........
Waived!
Passport Req..
08-11-2012
VISA ISSUED...
15-11-2012
LANDED..........
23-11-2012

OhCanadiana

VIP Member
Feb 27, 2010
3,086
217
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
boaz said:
Thanks again for the detailed information :)

That was what I thought... since my common law partner can't be a co-signer as well it seems logical that we do not need to submit the form if we stick to the checklist words...

i need HELP in one more thing if possible (i did post it in a diffrent subject but it does'nt seem to get any replies yet...)

what should be written in those declarations made by our friends & family? does someone have a good format/template for that?

Cheers,

Boaz
You're welcome :)

I would suggest staying away from any templates. You really want the genuineness to come through and if you use a template it will seem like it's cookie-cutter and can be questioned more easily.

Instead, have your friends and family write a letter in their own words explaining that you've lived together for xx time and known each other for xx time before that and that your affairs are intertwined and that you are essentially living like a married couple adding personal details - so your family or friends can talk about how they met her and vice versa, goals you may have shared for the future, how you now rely on each other for emotional (and perhaps financial support), a funny story here or there, etc. The goal is to have someone vouch for your relationship. They can then sign their statement in front of a commissioner of oaths and you can submit it.

Good luck! And don't hesitate to come on back :)
 

boaz

Full Member
Apr 29, 2012
43
0
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
Hi again... one more question.

Can we use this form "IMM 5409" as 'affidavits attesting to the fact that we're leaving together' ? as the immigrant checklist ask for? on other post somone suggest it but it seems quite confusing because I should use it just if i have a co-signer as we agreed above?

So if then, what kind of form can we use to this 'affidavits attesting to the fact that you have been living together
and representing yourself to your community as living in a conjugal
relationship for at least one year' (Appendix A from the country specific section)

Thanks in advance...
 

OhCanadiana

VIP Member
Feb 27, 2010
3,086
217
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
boaz said:
Hi again... one more question.

Can we use this form "IMM 5409" as 'affidavits attesting to the fact that we're leaving together' ? as the immigrant checklist ask for? on other post somone suggest it but it seems quite confusing because I should use it just if i have a co-signer as we agreed above?

So if then, what kind of form can we use to this 'affidavits attesting to the fact that you have been living together
and representing yourself to your community as living in a conjugal
relationship for at least one year' (Appendix A from the country specific section)

Thanks in advance...
Hi Boaz :)

So, I took a look at the visa office specific form at http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/pdf/kits/guides/3911e.pdf and I don't believe the affidavits in the following section refer to Form 5409 (let me know if you're looking somewhere else too):

"Common-Law
Proof of this relationship through documents such as:
• joint bank accounts
• joint lease or mortgage or home ownership deed
• affidavits attesting to the fact that you have been living together and representing yourself to your community as living in a conjugal relationship for at least one year"
(bolding mine)

The way I read this is that they want proof that you have been living in a common-law relationship and as an example of what they will accept they include affidavits from other people saying that you have been acting as if you are in a common-law relationship for at least one year.

I understand that it probably gets extra confusing because 2 pages down they say:

"If you are a common-law or conjugal partner, also provide;
•evidence that your relationship is genuine and continuing,
•has existed for at least 12 months prior to your application,
•details of the history of your relationship,
•at least two statutory declarations from individuals with personal knowledge of your relationship supporting your claim that the relationship is genuine and continuing,
•any other evidence of your relationship and communication."

HOWEVER, in having seen CIC documents evolve before during periods of intense change of instructions and as they have consolidated the forms from VO specific to regional requirements and the confusing documents that result, I believe that this is just confusion stemming from collating varying documents written by various people in varying visa offices without realizing the confusion they created by copying/pasting and using different vocabulary.

I do not think they are referring to the affidavit Form 5409 based on the general instructions to all applicants and on the Middle East visa office specific checklist. Further, I don't believe form 5409 are the 'affidavits' they are referring to because Form 5409 would be completed by you and not by other people attesting to how you represent yourself to the community. Instead, I think they are referring to letters like the statutory declarations they are asking for two pages down as potential proof (second quote above). Instead of paying too much attention to the 3 bullets, I would look at section 5.25 of OP-2 (http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/manuals/op/op02-eng.pdf) which lists the characteristics of conjugal relationships and the 'factors that are used to determine whether a couple is in a conjugal relationship are described in court decisions' and the following section,5.23, which spells out specific types of evidence to that are used by CIC as of proof of interdependency.

Boaz - you seem like a really logical, rigourous person which is good for the application because you will be detail-oriented and get it right (or at least that's how I choose to look at it). The pitfall is that you can get yourself stuck at times with their specifics - like this Form - because they have been increasingly moving to standardize instructions and forms across offices and application types. Therefore, I find it usually helpful to go back to the basic principles of what are they looking for and not try to parse out CIC's words. In general, CIC tends to be very transparent with their goals and specifics of what they are looking to assess but miss some of the details (e.g., forget to update a form when the instructions change, don't have consistent vocabulary) and it will keep you much more sane - given that you are rigorous and meticulous in your thinking - to ask yourself if you are meeting their goal of how they will assess your application (based on OP2, IP2, etc). I am happy to keep answering your questions ... just thought this perspective may help you keep your sanity a bit as you go through the long process :)