Foreign Work Experience - Earned during Education

[Sam_Canada_88]

Forum experts,

I was hoping to get your opinion on whether work experience earned during your education can be counted towards the overall work experience profile for Express entry.

I have 2 professional degrees - a Bachelor's and a Masters degree in Engineering. I worked during some portion of both my degrees to help put me through school.

Bachelors - 2006 -2010
From 2009 to 2010 I was also working full time with a IT Services firm providing IT support (NOC A). I worked for one more year with the same firm post graduation.

Masters - 2011-2013
From 2012-2013 I was employed in a Co-op program. I worked full time during the summer/winter breaks while part time during the school semester. I was employed as a Systems Analyst (NOC A).

I can obtain employer reference letters for both the above engagements.

I have read that employment during studies cannot be counted as permissible work-experience and wanted to confirm that for my scenario.

Questions:

1. Will my full time IT work-exp during the Bachelor's degree be accepted by the VO?

2. Will my part time IT co-op work-exp during the Master's degree be accepted by the VO?

3. I have Employer reference letters attesting to above. What other documents do I need to have ready for verification?

4. In case the above work-exp stints are not going to be accepted by the VO, should I just skip adding them to my EE profile/ or should I add them and VO will not consider them during assessment stage. I am not short on points but my main concern is adding accurate information to the EE profile. I do not want to add the work-exp which will not be permissible/counted towards PR and complicate things.

Hoping for some guidance on this topic from the experts.

 

[rezafc]

Hi there,

1/ NO
2/ NO
3/ Refer to 1 & 2 + Tax documents.
4/ You were either studying or working, period! Part time / Co-op work during your studies is acceptable, but you won't gain any points for them, and it never hurts to add them to your profile. Full time work while studying (except your summer breaks, or any period permitted - still will not gain any points) will raise some concerns.

Here is the bottom line: while you were/are a student, you can not declare any work hours. Anytime that you were/are not a student (preferably after your studies) you can catch the points.

Best of luck,

 

[Gladossy]

Hi there,

1/ NO
2/ NO
3/ Refer to 1 & 2 + Tax documents.
4/ You were either studying or working, period! Part time / Co-op work during your studies is acceptable, but you won't gain any points for them, and it never hurts to add them to your profile. Full time work while studying (except your summer breaks, or any period permitted - still will not gain any points) will raise some concerns.

Here is the bottom line: while you were/are a student, you can not declare any work hours. Anytime that you were/are not a student (preferably after your studies) you can catch the points.

Best of luck,

I don't mean to be a dummy and ask the same question again.

Are you sayin while studying part time Friday's to Sunday's and working Monday to Thursday. I can't claim this experience?
Or is this for cec only?

 

[Naheulbeuck]

I don't mean to be a dummy and ask the same question again.

Are you sayin while studying part time Friday's to Sunday's and working Monday to Thursday. I can't claim this experience?
Or is this for cec only?

What do you mean by foreign work experience in the title?

 

[softfuel12]

I don't mean to be a dummy and ask the same question again.

Are you sayin while studying part time Friday's to Sunday's and working Monday to Thursday. I can't claim this experience?
Or is this for cec only?

If you're a part-time student then you can't work on-campus or off-campus on your student permit.

There's is a difference between two commonly confusing scenarios - 'When the government allows foreign nationals to work' vs 'What government considers for immigration'.

If you're allowed to work that doesn't mean it will always count towards your application for permanent residency. At the high level, the government looks at your residency status and that differentiates what is admissible and what's not.

• If your status is 'Student' then no work experience will be counted towards immigration.
• If your status is 'Worker' then your experience will be counted.
• Lastly, if you've recently graduated and waiting for your work permit then your status is 'Implied', the work experience is counted towards immigration.

 

[Gladossy]

If you're a part-time student then you can't work on-campus or off-campus on your student permit.

There's is a difference between two commonly confusing scenarios - 'When the government allows foreign nationals to work' vs 'What government considers for immigration'.

If you're allowed to work that doesn't mean it will always count towards your application for permanent residency. At the high level, the government looks at your residency status and that differentiates what is admissible and what's not.

• If your status is 'Student' then no work experience will be counted towards immigration.
• If your status is 'Worker' then your experience will be counted.
• Lastly, if you've recently graduated and waiting for your work permit then your status is 'Implied', the work experience is counted towards immigration.

Okay I'm guessing this applies to cec applicants. Not Outland fsw. My heart almost jumped out reading the OP earlier. Because, part of my experience was acquired while I was school part time.
Thanks for your detailed explanation.

 

[Sam_Canada_88]

What do you mean by foreign work experience in the title?

The query is regarding my work-exp gained in my home country while I was also pursuing my Bachelor's/Masters degree. Hence this work-exp would get categorized in the "How much Foreign work experience do you have" section of the EE profile.

 

[Sam_Canada_88]

Hi there,

1/ NO
2/ NO
3/ Refer to 1 & 2 + Tax documents.
4/ You were either studying or working, period! Part time / Co-op work during your studies is acceptable, but you won't gain any points for them, and it never hurts to add them to your profile. Full time work while studying (except your summer breaks, or any period permitted - still will not gain any points) will raise some concerns.

Here is the bottom line: while you were/are a student, you can not declare any work hours. Anytime that you were/are not a student (preferably after your studies) you can catch the points.

Best of luck,

Rezafc: Greatly appreciate you clearing that up for me! An addendum for making things clearer. The Bachelor's degree was gained in my home country where there's no work permit etc. in the picture. The Master's degree was from the US and co-op work was on valid work authorization as well. So based on your responses to questions 1-4 above, here is how I am planning to post my work-ex in the EE profile. It would be great if you take a quick look and review. Since its pretty clear there will be no benefits on points, I want to focus on just adding accurate information that will not raise concerns at ITA documentation stage:

In chronological order

1. June 2008-May 2010 (India) - IT INTERN Co-op at COMPANY_1 Inc.. (I'm going to add the intern to the title here just to make it very clear for the VO)

2. June 2010-August 2011 (India) - IT ANALYST FULL-TIME at COMPANY_1 Inc. (This was post graduation so should be counted)

3. May 2012-May 2013 (USA) - IT INTERN Co-op at Company_2 Inc. (This was co-op work during my Master's program)

The above co-op stint was a mix of full-time (during summer and winter breaks) and part time (during semesters).
Question 1: Should I just make things simpler and mark the line 3 as part-time in my EE profile?

4. June 2013 - Oct 2013 (USA) - IT Consultant FULL-TIME at Company_3 Inc (This was also post-graduation)
I was planning to create another post for this chunk of work-exp. As you can see I worked at this company only for 4 months so I doubt they will co-operate and give me a reference letter in the CIC prescribed format. I am going to try hard to get it though but just planning for contingencies.

Question 2:Will paystubs and tax documents be accepted by CIC along with a letter saying company is not providing a reference letter? Or should I leave this portion out of EE profile as well?

5. Oct 2013 - July 2015 (USA) - IT Manager FULL-TIME at Company_4

6. July 2015 - preset (Canada) - IT Manager

I want to make sure I put the right line items in the EE profile which will make things easier down the line.

 

[rezafc]

Hello Sam,

Everything looks fine to me.

Here are my suggestions to your questions:

Answer 1/ Why don't you break this one down into separate sections? One from May 2012 to June as a part timer, June to September as a full timer (summer), and September to May 2013 as a part timer again. This is what I did on my application and there was nothing wrong with it. Just mention you were working for the same company. Generally speaking any change in your situation can be broken down into sections. Add extra sheets of papers if you have to.

Answer 2/ Yes the pay stubs and tax documents are accepted. And you can most definitely include a cover letter stating that the company is not willing to give you a reference letter. It is absolutely acceptable.

Best of luck,

 

[Sam_Canada_88]

Hello Sam,

Everything looks fine to me.

Here are my suggestions to your questions:

Answer 1/ Why don't you break this one down into separate sections? One from May 2012 to June as a part timer, June to September as a full timer (summer), and September to May 2013 as a part timer again. This is what I did on my application and there was nothing wrong with it. Just mention you were working for the same company. Generally speaking any change in your situation can be broken down into sections. Add extra sheets of papers if you have to.

Answer 2/ Yes the pay stubs and tax documents are accepted. And you can most definitely include a cover letter stating that the company is not willing to give you a reference letter. It is absolutely acceptable.

Best of luck,

Thanks again Rezafc!

I had thought about splitting up the co-op work exp but was on the fence since. I did not know if it would create confusion for the VO. Knowing it has been accepted in the past makes me feel good to proceed with this.

So below is going to be the final line items in EE profile.

In chronological order

1. June 2008-May 2010 (India) - IT INTERN Co-op at COMPANY_1 Inc.. (I'm going to add the intern to the title here just to make it very clear for the VO)

2. June 2010-August 2011 (India) - IT ANALYST FULL-TIME at COMPANY_1 Inc. (This was post graduation so should be counted)


3a. May 2012-August 2012 (USA) - IT INTERN Co-op at Company_2 Inc : FULL-TIME
3b. September 2012-December 2012 (USA) - IT INTERN Co-op at Company_2 Inc : PART-TIME
3c. January 2013 (USA) - IT INTERN Co-op at Company_2 Inc : FULL-TIME
3d. Feb 2013-May 2013 (USA) - IT INTERN Co-op at Company_2 Inc : PART-TIME

4. June 2013 - Oct 2013 (USA) - IT Consultant FULL-TIME at Company_3 Inc (This was also post-graduation)

5. Oct 2013 - July 2015 (USA) - IT Manager FULL-TIME at Company_4

6. July 2015 - preset (Canada) - IT Manager

 

[rezafc]

Looks fine to me,

Please await for more responses if possible. I am feeling some weight on my shoulders since you are just double checking with me.

Give it couple of days, hopefully somebody else is going to approve of this.

Cheers,

 

[Sam_Canada_88]

Looks fine to me,

Please await for more responses if possible. I am feeling some weight on my shoulders since you are just double checking with me.

Give it couple of days, hopefully somebody else is going to approve of this.

Cheers,

Agreed! Have a few weeks before the buttons get pushed so hopefully some more forum experts have a chance to view and comment on this.

Thanks again for all the guidance on this.

 

[jes_ON]

This applies to Canadian work experience gained while on a study permit in Canada. It does not apply to foreign work experience.[/color]

Questions:

1. Will my full time IT work-exp during the Bachelor's degree be accepted by the VO?
2. Will my part time IT co-op work-exp during the Master's degree be accepted by the VO?
It is possible, but the way you have phrased the question - sorry, but no one can predict that for you!

3. I have Employer reference letters attesting to above. What other documents do I need to have ready for verification?

See the section on work experience -
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/tools/perm/express/intake-complete.asp

4. In case the above work-exp stints are not going to be accepted by the VO, should I just skip adding them to my EE profile/ or should I add them and VO will not consider them during assessment stage. I am not short on points but my main concern is adding accurate information to the EE profile. I do not want to add the work-exp which will not be permissible/counted towards PR and complicate things.

Both positions sound skilled, and if you already have the letters (do they contain all the required details?), I see no reason to skip them. But you can safely do so if you still qualify, it will reduce your burden of proof.

 

[Sam_Canada_88]

jes_ON: Thanks for the response. I really appreciate your insights!

1. This applies to Canadian work experience gained while on a study permit in Canada. It does not apply to foreign work experience.

Yeah, this is what has been confusing me all along. I can understand CIC not accepting work-exp when a student IN CANADA is doing off-campus work WHEN THEY NOT SUPPOSED to.
However, refuting work-ex in an applicants home country where they have no restrictions on working during studies did not make full sense.

I have not been able to find a document on CIC website which addresses this gap hence I raised this on the forum.

jes_ON: Can you PLEASE check if you have better luck with the CIC website on Foreign Work Experience for CEC candidates?

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2. It is possible, but the way you have phrased the question - sorry, but no one can predict that for you!

Questions - rephrased

Question a. Generally speaking, can FULL-TIME work-exp gained OUTSIDE CANADA while pursuing a Bachelor's degree be counted as VALID "Foreign Work Experience"
Question b. Generally speaking, can PART-TIME/FULL-TIME work-exp gained OUTSIDE CANADA while pursuing a Master's degree be counted as VALID "Foreign Work Experience"

I want to basically answer the question "How many years of skilled Foreign work experience do you have?" as accurately as possible and get the maximum benefit available (3+ years of skilled foreign experience).

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3. See the section on work experience -
cic.gc.ca/english/resources/tools/perm/express/intake-complete.asp

I have worked with one company for a short duration (4 months). I am unsure if I will be able to get a reference letter in the prescribed format as we didn't part on good terms. This experience was also Outside Canada. Other forum members suggested that paystubs/tax documents from foreign country might work here.

Answer 2/ Yes the pay stubs and tax documents are accepted. And you can most definitely include a cover letter stating that the company is not willing to give you a reference letter. It is absolutely acceptable.

Question c. In case pay-stubs/tax docs are not acceptable AND I cannot get a reference letter, is it advisable to LEAVE out this 4 month stretch of work-exp. Larger question, should any past full-time job for which you cannot get a reference letter be LEFT OUT from EE profile as the applicant will NOT be able to provide sufficient proof?

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4. Both positions sound skilled, and if you already have the letters (do they contain all the required details?), I see no reason to skip them. But you can safely do so if you still qualify, it will reduce your burden of proof.

Question d. In case I leave out work-exp that I CANNOT prove or KNOW that it will NOT be adding points, is that acceptable or does that count towards misrepresentation?

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Thanks!

 

[jes_ON]

jes_ON: Can you PLEASE check if you have better luck with the CIC website on Foreign Work Experience for CEC candidates?

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/helpcentre/answer.asp?qnum=855&top=6


2. It is possible, but the way you have phrased the question - sorry, but no one can predict that for you!

Questions - rephrased

Question a. Generally speaking, can FULL-TIME work-exp gained OUTSIDE CANADA while pursuing a Bachelor's degree be counted as VALID "Foreign Work Experience"
Question b. Generally speaking, can PART-TIME/FULL-TIME work-exp gained OUTSIDE CANADA while pursuing a Master's degree be counted as VALID "Foreign Work Experience"

I want to basically answer the question "How many years of skilled Foreign work experience do you have?" as accurately as possible and get the maximum benefit available (3+ years of skilled foreign experience).

pretty much the same question, already answered ... -

3. See the section on work experience -
cic.gc.ca/english/resources/tools/perm/express/intake-complete.asp


Question c. In case pay-stubs/tax docs are not acceptable AND I cannot get a reference letter, is it advisable to LEAVE out this 4 month stretch of work-exp. Larger question, should any past full-time job for which you cannot get a reference letter be LEFT OUT from EE profile as the applicant will NOT be able to provide sufficient proof?

Yes, you can leave it off. Pay stubs and tax docs are acceptable, but they may not be sufficient proof. Without a letter, you will need something else that describes your job duties and responsibilities (.e.g letter from a colleague, job description, something that will allow CIC to assess your work experience as skilled).

4. Both positions sound skilled, and if you already have the letters (do they contain all the required details?), I see no reason to skip them. But you can safely do so if you still qualify, it will reduce your burden of proof.

Question d. In case I leave out work-exp that I CANNOT prove or KNOW that it will NOT be adding points, is that acceptable or does that count towards misrepresentation?

Yes it is acceptable, no it is not misrepresentation on the EE profile. Later, if you get the ITA, you will have to complete a background declaration and list EVERYTHING there. If you omit it on the background declaration, it could be seen as misrepresentation.