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For those already "in process" when the new guidelines kick in...

ERJOPA

Star Member
Jan 14, 2015
144
7
Just to be clear, and to have this all on one thread....

1.Those of us "in process" and have files transferred - Will the CIC still use the old guidelines that we are under with our applications, or will they use the new guidelines in addition to the old guidelines to process our applications? Would they look at the last six years (4/6) in addition to our apps being 3/4?

2.I have always had the feeling that the CIC in Alberta is already using the "intent to reside" by delaying our applications after transfer to re-do our background checks/clearances to show our "intent". Would this be true?

Mind you, since my app has been transferred, I will just wait for correspondence from the Office, but at least I know something will be coming by March 31, 2016.

or will it?

Say tuned....
 

scylla

VIP Member
Jun 8, 2010
96,512
22,590
Toronto
Category........
Visa Office......
Buffalo
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
28-05-2010
AOR Received.
19-08-2010
File Transfer...
28-06-2010
Passport Req..
01-10-2010
VISA ISSUED...
05-10-2010
LANDED..........
05-10-2010
You'll fall under the old guidelines of course.
 

AnwarR

Newbie
Jun 6, 2015
4
0
Hi ERJOPA,

You raised a valid point that should be a matter of concern for all those whose application are currently under process. I have the same concerns on the premise that recently lot of applicants whose ecas showed "your file transferred to local office on ------ date" has suddenly disappeared from the ecas. After reading your post I can develop a correlation. If truly this is the case as you have posted it must be very unfortunate.
 

zardoz

VIP Member
Feb 2, 2013
13,298
2,168
Canada
Category........
FAM
Visa Office......
London
App. Filed.......
16-02-2013
VISA ISSUED...
31-07-2013
LANDED..........
09-11-2013
I guess it should be pointed out that these are not "guidelines". This is the law which, amongst other things, has clarified exactly what is defined as "residency". There is no longer any discretion for non physical presence.
 

ERJOPA

Star Member
Jan 14, 2015
144
7
"recently lot of applicants whose ecas showed "your file transferred to local office on ------ date" has suddenly disappeared from the ecas."

Which could mean 3 things:

1. When they updated their systems in anticipation of June 11, some of the programming went down or didn't upload. Computers can be tempermental.

2. The update had no glitches and the new laws may have, also, new distribution areas for the local offices that receive applications included in the computer downloads.

3. Programmer asleep at the switches. Probably working on it as we speak.

Suffice to say, after June 11 everyone in process under old rules just be aware of the new rules just in case they sneak some in even though they aren't supposed to.
 

h3a3j6

Hero Member
Mar 31, 2014
382
69
Montréal
I think this point is moot, really... There should be no speculations here!

Any application pre-June 11 will be treated with the current regulations. Anything post that date will be following the new rules.
 

wilbur

Star Member
Aug 5, 2010
192
10
124
Category........
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
21-04-2011
Doc's Request.
Sent with app
AOR Received.
02-06-2011
IELTS Request
Sent with app
File Transfer...
19-07-2011
Med's Request
02-09-2011
Med's Done....
03-09-2011
Interview........
Waived
Passport Req..
23-09-2011
VISA ISSUED...
28-09-2011
LANDED..........
15-10-2011
AnwarR said:
Hi ERJOPA,

You raised a valid point that should be a matter of concern for all those whose application are currently under process. I have the same concerns on the premise that recently lot of applicants whose ecas showed "your file transferred to local office on ------ date" has suddenly disappeared from the ecas. After reading your post I can develop a correlation. If truly this is the case as you have posted it must be very unfortunate.
Check the following link on the CIC website, don't create a false alarm where it does not exist.

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/helpcentre/answer.asp?q=1077&t=5
 

Lux et Veritas

Star Member
Apr 25, 2015
163
7
wilbur said:
Check the following link on the CIC website, don't create a false alarm where it does not exist.

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/helpcentre/answer.asp?q=1077&t=5
Thank you for the link
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,467
3,218
Apart from concurring with posts affirming that the old law (3/4 rule, credit for pre-landing time, et al) governs any complete application that has, as of today, been received by CIC at Sydney . . .

Presence in Canada pending processing of application versus "intent to reside" requirement:


ERJOPA said:
2.I have always had the feeling that the CIC in Alberta is already using the "intent to reside" by delaying our applications after transfer to re-do our background checks/clearances to show our "intent". Would this be true?
To be clear, section 5(1)(c.1) (the oft called "intent requirement," to be effective tomorrow, June 11, 2015), will only apply to applications not received and accepted as of or before today (June 10, 2015).

It has no application, directly or indirectly, to any application already in process, already received and accepted as of today.

Thus, there can be no practice or policy, in the local office or otherwise, which is engaged in assessing an applicant's "intent" for any application now in process.

However, for several years CIC has been screening for and identifying some applicants as having left Canada to live abroad while the application is in process, or otherwise, as at least one Federal Court Justice described, having applied-on-the-way-to-the-airport. Being identified as such does NOT disqualify the applicant. It is, however, a factor which can (often will, when CIC catches it) lead to additional scrutiny, including the issuance of RQ.

There has been no indication that CIC or any of the local offices have deliberately delayed processing generally in order to more thoroughly identify (catch) applicants who are not continuing to reside in Canada. There has been some indication, at least in a number of specific cases, that AFTER CIC has identified an applicant as one who is already living abroad, that there has been a delay in processing while additional inquiries are made, including background checks. Such delays are probably incidental to CIC having identified a reason to inquire or investigate more thoroughly and not a practice to intentionally delay processing.

That said, in a very small number of cases, the length of the delay and the lack of CIC taking any action on the application, until apparently the applicant was physically returning to Canada, suggested that for that specific individual CIC had probably flagged FOSS so that a PR Residency Obligation examination would be conducted at the POE upon the individual's attempt to enter Canada and CIC may have put the application on hold until that happened. It needs to be emphasized this has been apparent in only a very, very few cases, as seen in Federal Court decisions related to citizenship applicants issued a Removal Order or denied a PR Travel Document (these have arisen in the context of both mandamus actions and in appeals of negative citizenship decisions based on issuance of Removal Orders).

Additionally, in recent years CIC has modified policies related to test no-shows and delayed responses to requests for information or documents, in conjunction with what appears to be a policy of only giving applicants a relatively minimal amount of notice for scheduled events like the test or an interview, which are clearly, in a very significant part, an effort to make it more difficult for applicants living outside Canada. In particular, for example, failure to appear for a second-scheduled test due to being abroad and unable to return to Canada in time for the test, is explicitly NOT an acceptable excuse, and the application will be terminated as abandoned.

While many of the measures which, in essence, have targeted applicants identified as potentially being among those who have applied-on-the-way-to-the-airport, were implemented in recent years, actually CIC has long had a policy of screening applicants more thoroughly if they are identified as living abroad while the application is pending. For example, under the Operational Bulletin issued in 2005 (before Harper even), subsequently incorporated into the Operational Manual governing assessment of residency, which specified "reasons to question residency" (sometimes referred to as "risk indicators"), stamps in a passport indicating a return to Canada just in time to take the test or attend the interview were considered a reason to question residency. While this guideline, basically outlining reasons to issue RQ, was largely replaced in 2012 by OB 407 and the specific triage criteria listed in the File Requirements Checklist, if anything it has been apparent that CIC has continued to screen for indications an applicant is living abroad and imposed additional hurdles when the applicant is identified as living or working abroad . . . again, despite the fact that there is nothing at all disqualifying about living abroad after applying (under the old law) so long as the applicant continues to be in compliance with the PR Residency Obligation.



Why screening for applicants who have applied-on-the-way-to-the-airport (in effect, not literally) is relevant to the intent to reside requirement:

There were probably a number of factors which led this government to incorporate an intent element into qualifying for citizenship. But targeting the applicant who applies-on-the-way-to-the-airport is probably the dominant purpose, along with discouraging applicants in effect planning to take-the-oath-on-the-way-to-the-airport.

Since the manner in which CIC has, for years, targeted (for elevated scrutiny) those thought to be (by CIC) applying-on-the-way-to-the-airport is consistent with the objective underlying the intent to reside requirement, there have been a number of forum reports suggesting that CIC has adopted the intent to reside requirement as policy even for applicants to whom the intent to reside requirement does not apply.

This is largely a misunderstanding about the main difference between the two: for those applicants who apply after tomorrow (June 11, 2015), living abroad while the application is pending can be an outright ground for denying the application, since the intent to reside requirement actually requires the intent to continue to reside in Canada and of course it is logically impossible to have an intent to continue to reside in Canda if one is not currently residing in Canada. That is, living abroad, for those subject to the intent to reside requirement, can be disqualifying.

Living abroad for applicants with their application now in process is not, and in itself cannot be disqualifying. It can lead to more difficult and lengthy processing, but cannot be, itself, a reason to deny citizenship.
 

MUFC

Champion Member
Jul 14, 2014
1,223
214
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
In practice nobody will be denied if they keep the residency during the process, which is a very easy part to be done.
 

Lux et Veritas

Star Member
Apr 25, 2015
163
7
dpenabill said:
Apart from concurring with posts affirming that the old law (3/4 rule, credit for pre-landing time, et al) governs any complete application that has, as of today, been received by CIC at Sydney . . .

Presence in Canada pending processing of application versus "intent to reside" requirement:


To be clear, section 5(1)(c.1) (the oft called "intent requirement," to be effective tomorrow, June 11, 2015), will only apply to applications not received and accepted as of or before today (June 10, 2015).

It has no application, directly or indirectly, to any application already in process, already received and accepted as of today.

Thus, there can be no practice or policy, in the local office or otherwise, which is engaged in assessing an applicant's "intent" for any application now in process.

However, for several years CIC has been screening for and identifying some applicants as having left Canada to live abroad while the application is in process, or otherwise, as at least one Federal Court Justice described, having applied-on-the-way-to-the-airport. Being identified as such does NOT disqualify the applicant. It is, however, a factor which can (often will, when CIC catches it) lead to additional scrutiny, including the issuance of RQ.

There has been no indication that CIC or any of the local offices have deliberately delayed processing generally in order to more thoroughly identify (catch) applicants who are not continuing to reside in Canada. There has been some indication, at least in a number of specific cases, that AFTER CIC has identified an applicant as one who is already living abroad, that there has been a delay in processing while additional inquiries are made, including background checks. Such delays are probably incidental to CIC having identified a reason to inquire or investigate more thoroughly and not a practice to intentionally delay processing.

That said, in a very small number of cases, the length of the delay and the lack of CIC taking any action on the application, until apparently the applicant was physically returning to Canada, suggested that for that specific individual CIC had probably flagged FOSS so that a PR Residency Obligation examination would be conducted at the POE upon the individual's attempt to enter Canada and CIC may have put the application on hold until that happened. It needs to be emphasized this has been apparent in only a very, very few cases, as seen in Federal Court decisions related to citizenship applicants issued a Removal Order or denied a PR Travel Document (these have arisen in the context of both mandamus actions and in appeals of negative citizenship decisions based on issuance of Removal Orders).

Additionally, in recent years CIC has modified policies related to test no-shows and delayed responses to requests for information or documents, in conjunction with what appears to be a policy of only giving applicants a relatively minimal amount of notice for scheduled events like the test or an interview, which are clearly, in a very significant part, an effort to make it more difficult for applicants living outside Canada. In particular, for example, failure to appear for a second-scheduled test due to being abroad and unable to return to Canada in time for the test, is explicitly NOT an acceptable excuse, and the application will be terminated as abandoned.

While many of the measures which, in essence, have targeted applicants identified as potentially being among those who have applied-on-the-way-to-the-airport, were implemented in recent years, actually CIC has long had a policy of screening applicants more thoroughly if they are identified as living abroad while the application is pending. For example, under the Operational Bulletin issued in 2005 (before Harper even), subsequently incorporated into the Operational Manual governing assessment of residency, which specified "reasons to question residency" (sometimes referred to as "risk indicators"), stamps in a passport indicating a return to Canada just in time to take the test or attend the interview were considered a reason to question residency. While this guideline, basically outlining reasons to issue RQ, was largely replaced in 2012 by OB 407 and the specific triage criteria listed in the File Requirements Checklist, if anything it has been apparent that CIC has continued to screen for indications an applicant is living abroad and imposed additional hurdles when the applicant is identified as living or working abroad . . . again, despite the fact that there is nothing at all disqualifying about living abroad after applying (under the old law) so long as the applicant continues to be in compliance with the PR Residency Obligation.



Why screening for applicants who have applied-on-the-way-to-the-airport (in effect, not literally) is relevant to the intent to reside requirement:

There were probably a number of factors which led this government to incorporate an intent element into qualifying for citizenship. But targeting the applicant who applies-on-the-way-to-the-airport is probably the dominant purpose, along with discouraging applicants in effect planning to take-the-oath-on-the-way-to-the-airport.

Since the manner in which CIC has, for years, targeted (for elevated scrutiny) those thought to be (by CIC) applying-on-the-way-to-the-airport is consistent with the objective underlying the intent to reside requirement, there have been a number of forum reports suggesting that CIC has adopted the intent to reside requirement as policy even for applicants to whom the intent to reside requirement does not apply.

This is largely a misunderstanding about the main difference between the two: for those applicants who apply after tomorrow (June 11, 2015), living abroad while the application is pending can be an outright ground for denying the application, since the intent to reside requirement actually requires the intent to continue to reside in Canada and of course it is logically impossible to have an intent to continue to reside in Canda if one is not currently residing in Canada. That is, living abroad, for those subject to the intent to reside requirement, can be disqualifying.

Living abroad for applicants with their application now in process is not, and in itself cannot be disqualifying. It can lead to more difficult and lengthy processing, but cannot be, itself, a reason to deny citizenship.
So let's confirm once again in bullet points to make it simple and crystal clear for those in doubt:

1. Applications received on 10th of June or BEFORE: Intent to reside not applicable, whether application at RECEIVED or IN PROCESS.
2. Applications received on 11th onwards: It applies
3. The clause only applies for period between submitting application and oath.

Can any experts confirm this or correct me if I'm wrong?
 

MUFC

Champion Member
Jul 14, 2014
1,223
214
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
Lux et Veritas said:
So let's confirm once again in bullet points to make it simple and crystal clear for those in doubt:

1. Applications received on 10th of June or BEFORE: Intent to reside not applicable, whether application at RECEIVED or IN PROCESS.
2. Applications received on 11th onwards: It applies
3. The clause only applies for period between submitting application and oath.

Can any experts confirm this or correct me if I'm wrong?
In a nutshell yes that correct.

When the time passes by the people will realize that there is nothing scary from that Intend to reside clause.
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,467
3,218
Lux et Veritas said:
So let's confirm once again in bullet points to make it simple and crystal clear for those in doubt:

1. Applications received on 10th of June or BEFORE: Intent to reside not applicable, whether application at RECEIVED or IN PROCESS.
2. Applications received on 11th onwards: It applies
3. The clause only applies for period between submitting application and oath.

Can any experts confirm this or correct me if I'm wrong?
No experts in sight (this is not a venue for experts), and I am not one either . . . but yes, that's the nutshell version of what section 5(1)(c.1)(i) (intent to continue to reside in Canada requirement) is about.

However, it is not clear why you quoted my post to offer that, since my post was in response to the second query by ERJOPA, as to whether a local office might already be in effect screening applicants based on intent. That is, my post was about the impact of leaving Canada or, more to how things work, the perception (by CIC) that the applicant is on his or her way to live abroad.

There is no in-a-nutshell explanation for how CIC screens current applicants perceived to be among those applying-on-the-way-to-the-airport, since it is largely an indirect process dependent on a huge range of factors tending to vary extensively from individual to individual.

The sort-of-in-a-nutshell version, which however barely alludes to the many nuances involved, is this:

Even though the intent requirement does not apply, applicants who appear to be in pursuit of a passport more than in becoming in-fact citizens living in Canada can anticipate the possibility of elevated scrutiny, additional checks, potentially RQ and long delays in processing, and in some cases substantially more skeptical evaluation of the facts regarding residency.

This is about applicants whose complete application has already been received by CIC (as of my posting this, no more old form applications can be delivered, no more old forms will be accepted).