family living together in Germany: apply from within or outside?

[Luthien]

We are just about to start filling out the application forms but a bunch of questions have come up that hopefully somebody can answer or give some advice.

We are both currently living together in Germany. I am German, and my husband is Canadian. We have 3 kids born in Germany, which we are told means they are both German and Canadian. Do we need to get proof of citizenship for them before applying or how does that work?

And this already kind of leads to the next question. As my husband is living in Germany, we would have to prove that we are actually going to live in Canada after I have been accepted as a permanent resident. Would it be better to move to Canada first and apply from within? I don't want to move there with the kids and then for some reason be denied even though I don't see why we should be. We have been living together for almost 8 years now, and our oldest is turning 4 next month so I assume that is proof enough of a genuine relationship; and we don't have a criminal record. However, we were in Canada for half a year in 2013 and applied for PR from within Canada already back then. The application got returned because we used an outdated form (they updated it while we were filling it in), and then I got pregnant and things went emotional which led us temporarily back in Germany with my family. Will this be a problem? The whole application had been returned to us and they never even started anything. We paid the money and never officialy withdrew the application because in our opinion it wasn't even submitted as they sent back the original, and we hadn't decided what to do at that point (apply again right away, stay in Germany for a while, etc.). We kind of would like to use the receipt of payment though because we already paid back then.

I hope somebody can help.

 

[Hurlabrick]

I am German, and my husband is Canadian. We have 3 kids born in Germany, which we are told means they are both German and Canadian. Do we need to get proof of citizenship for them before applying or how does that work?

If your husband was born in Canada (i.e. not Canadian by descent from his parents) then you can (and must if you want to go to Canada) apply for citizenship for all of your children. Once they have citizenship, you can then apply for Canadian passports and they can then come to Canada and live at any time and do NOT form part of your application for spousal sponsorship - all of this is an exercise in paperwork. So it would only be you being sponsored. You should at least get their citizenship applied for and have proof of this before applying for spousal sponsorship. See here:

https://travel.gc.ca/travelling/children/birth-abroad

As my husband is living in Germany, we would have to prove that we are actually going to live in Canada after I have been accepted as a permanent resident.

Yes, he would. It is entirely possible to 'prove' intent to return - I managed it despite not having lived in Canada for more than 40 years! This is called 'outland spousal sponsorship' and is VERY common.

Would it be better to move to Canada first and apply from within?

Hmmm.... This gives you a whole other problem. You would have to enter as a 'visitor' and persuade the CBSA agent at the border that you are only visiting honest. You run the risk of being refused entry. You are much safer to apply outland IMHO precisely for the reasons you stated. Outland spousal sponsorship should take 7 - 10 months for you from receipt to approval.

We have been living together for almost 8 years now, and our oldest is turning 4 next month so I assume that is proof enough of a genuine relationship; and we don't have a criminal record.

Fine

However, we were in Canada for half a year in 2013 and applied for PR from within Canada already back then. The application got returned because we used an outdated form (they updated it while we were filling it in), and then I got pregnant and things went emotional which led us temporarily back in Germany with my family. Will this be a problem? The whole application had been returned to us and they never even started anything.

No this will not be a problem. Your application was returned as it was incomplete, this was CIC throwing the whole thing back at you putting the ball back in your court, they may not even have recorded receipt. As far as CIC are concerned, there was never an application as they returned it immediately as incomplete.

We paid the money and never officialy withdrew the application because in our opinion it wasn't even submitted as they sent back the original, and we hadn't decided what to do at that point (apply again right away, stay in Germany for a while, etc.).

Correct, it was never really submitted. They would (or should) have returned any money paid.

We kind of would like to use the receipt of payment though because we already paid back then.

They should have refunded you. If not you should obtain a refund as a separate exercise. Do the new pack and pay the new fees (they will be different by now) in a completely new transaction. ​

 

[canuck_in_uk]

We are just about to start filling out the application forms but a bunch of questions have come up that hopefully somebody can answer or give some advice.

We are both currently living together in Germany. I am German, and my husband is Canadian. We have 3 kids born in Germany, which we are told means they are both German and Canadian. Do we need to get proof of citizenship for them before applying or how does that work?

And this already kind of leads to the next question. As my husband is living in Germany, we would have to prove that we are actually going to live in Canada after I have been accepted as a permanent resident. Would it be better to move to Canada first and apply from within? I don't want to move there with the kids and then for some reason be denied even though I don't see why we should be. We have been living together for almost 8 years now, and our oldest is turning 4 next month so I assume that is proof enough of a genuine relationship; and we don't have a criminal record. However, we were in Canada for half a year in 2013 and applied for PR from within Canada already back then. The application got returned because we used an outdated form (they updated it while we were filling it in), and then I got pregnant and things went emotional which led us temporarily back in Germany with my family. Will this be a problem? The whole application had been returned to us and they never even started anything. We paid the money and never officialy withdrew the application because in our opinion it wasn't even submitted as they sent back the original, and we hadn't decided what to do at that point (apply again right away, stay in Germany for a while, etc.). We kind of would like to use the receipt of payment though because we already paid back then.

I hope somebody can help.

You need to apply for Certificates of Citizenship for your children.

Whether to apply inland or outland is your choice. I disagree with the above poster. As a German citizen entering with your Canadian spouse and 3 Canadian children, you have very little chance of being refused entry.

 

[canuck_in_uk]

If your husband was born in Canada (i.e. not Canadian by descent from his parents) then you can (and must if you want to go to Canada) apply for citizenship for all of your children. Once they have citizenship, you can then apply for Canadian passports and they can then come to Canada and live at any time and do NOT form part of your application for spousal sponsorship - all of this is an exercise in paperwork.

​

To clarify, OP needs to apply for proof of citizenship for the kids. Applying for citizenship is an entirely different thing.

 

[canuck78]

I'd start applying for the children citizenship because it takes quite a while.

 

[Luthien]

Thank you everyone.
I will go to the town hall on Monday and see if the kids birth certificates say that they are German and Canadian. There was some confusion when we registered our son. They told us that he could only be German because I am German. We didn't really think that that made sense but just left it with that and didn't bother with our other two childrens' birth certificates. When I went to get their passports they made me sign something though saying that they are German and Canadian, so I wonder if it changed in their birth certificates. If that is the case I am thinking that we will just apply for the PR and the proof of citizenship at the same time. I feel like if the German government says that they are both it is pretty official and we don't have to fear that suddenly they can't enter because we didn't apply for their permanent residenceship. I don't really want to go through the process seperately because that would delay everything by half a year unless we apply for the proof here and then go to Canada and do the PR over there.
We just went to Canada in May for the first time after they started the etA and they just stamped our passports without even asking any questions. Before I always had to go through some extra thing, telling them where I was going to stay etc. I feel like it for sure wouldn't be a problem to go there as a visitor and then apply except for that we would be shipping some of our stuff at the same time which we would need to declare and then make it obvious that I am not just there as a visitor. I would definitely prefer applying from Germany and being done with the whole process though.
I heard that you can also start the application from outside and then move to Canada, does that make sense or would you wait before moving?

 

[Luthien]

Hmmm.... This gives you a whole other problem. You would have to enter as a 'visitor' and persuade the CBSA agent at the border that you are only visiting honest. You run the risk of being refused entry. You are much safer to apply outland IMHO precisely for the reasons you stated. Outland spousal sponsorship should take 7 - 10 months for you from receipt to approval.
​

Where do you see the 7-10 months? On the website it says 12 months. 7-10 months would be so much better. ​

 

[canuck78]

Thank you everyone.
I will go to the town hall on Monday and see if the kids birth certificates say that they are German and Canadian. There was some confusion when we registered our son. They told us that he could only be German because I am German. We didn't really think that that made sense but just left it with that and didn't bother with our other two childrens' birth certificates. When I went to get their passports they made me sign something though saying that they are German and Canadian, so I wonder if it changed in their birth certificates. If that is the case I am thinking that we will just apply for the PR and the proof of citizenship at the same time. I feel like if the German government says that they are both it is pretty official and we don't have to fear that suddenly they can't enter because we didn't apply for their permanent residenceship. I don't really want to go through the process seperately because that would delay everything by half a year unless we apply for the proof here and then go to Canada and do the PR over there.
We just went to Canada in May for the first time after they started the etA and they just stamped our passports without even asking any questions. Before I always had to go through some extra thing, telling them where I was going to stay etc. I feel like it for sure wouldn't be a problem to go there as a visitor and then apply except for that we would be shipping some of our stuff at the same time which we would need to declare and then make it obvious that I am not just there as a visitor. I would definitely prefer applying from Germany and being done with the whole process though.
I heard that you can also start the application from outside and then move to Canada, does that make sense or would you wait before moving?

Just to clarify your children don't need PR they will be citizens by descent. Because your family is also German, so are visa-exemp,t this is a much easier process than other dual citizen children. They could enter via ETAs like you did on vacation if necessary. You might as well start their citizenship process for the children since it is a long process. How you complete the PR process will partially come down to whether you plan on working and when you want to move. You could apply outland in Germany and you would leave Germany and land in Canada and become a PR right away. You would have to show CIC that you intend to move as soon as your sponsorship is complete. Other option is outland but move from Germany and finish the process in Canada. You would not be able to work in Canada. You would enter on your ETA and show the border agent that you have started the sponsorship process and paid already. The last option is to enter Canada and apply inland with a work permit at the same time. It would take 2-4 months to get your work permit and you would wait until your sponsorship came through while in Canada. The only issue is that you would be a visitor so border agent would have to somewhat overlook the fact you are moving.

 

[canuck78]

Where do you see the 7-10 months? On the website it says 12 months. 7-10 months would be so much better. ​

That is for the kids to get citizenship and passports. Although spousal sponsorship says 12 months your will likely take a little less if your application is straightforward and because you don't need an interview. If you have lived all over the world that would be a different story. Hard to say how long it would take but maybe similar 7-10 months.