Express Entry during Career Transition

[Fxguy1]

Hello everyone!

My wife and I have begun the process of applying for immigration to Canada. We are both US born citizens and have two children 5 and 7. My wife is a nurse and is working on getting her documentation into the National Nursing Assessment Services. Once she has that completed she will apply for her nursing registration with British Columbia. As for me, I'm in a bit of a career transition. I have been a pharmacist for 13 years. I last worked as a pharmacist in July 2019. Since then I have completed a certificate in general programming and database management. WES evaluated my education as Bachelor's or equivalent 4 year degree for my Bachelors in Chemistry, Masters or professional degree for my PharmD and One year of college for my programming certificate program.

My wife's CRS is 390 and mine is 427. I know the easiest way to qualify for the EE draw would be for me to find employment in Canada which would get me an additional 50 points and qualify me for several provincial nomination programs.

My question is do I need to apply for a work permit to be legally able to work in Canada in order to apply for positions BEFORE we are successful with EE? Also suggestions for appealing to employers who may look at my resume and see pharmacist experience only and not look any further?

Thank you!

 

[scylla]

Hello everyone!

My wife and I have begun the process of applying for immigration to Canada. We are both US born citizens and have two children 5 and 7. My wife is a nurse and is working on getting her documentation into the National Nursing Assessment Services. Once she has that completed she will apply for her nursing registration with British Columbia. As for me, I'm in a bit of a career transition. I have been a pharmacist for 13 years. I last worked as a pharmacist in July 2019. Since then I have completed a certificate in general programming and database management. WES evaluated my education as Bachelor's or equivalent 4 year degree for my Bachelors in Chemistry, Masters or professional degree for my PharmD and One year of college for my programming certificate program.

My wife's CRS is 390 and mine is 427. I know the easiest way to qualify for the EE draw would be for me to find employment in Canada which would get me an additional 50 points and qualify me for several provincial nomination programs.

My question is do I need to apply for a work permit to be legally able to work in Canada in order to apply for positions BEFORE we are successful with EE? Also suggestions for appealing to employers who may look at my resume and see pharmacist experience only and not look any further?

Thank you!

The job offer points aren't that easy to get for Express Entry. Generally very difficult to find employers willing to support this.

If you want to get the points without getting a work permit first, then your employer in Canada needs to obtain an approved LMIA. This is quite an involved process that requires your employer to advertise the job for at least a month to prove no Canadian could be found for the role, complete quite a bit of paperwork and then wait months to see if the LMIA will be approved or not.

If your occupation qualifies under NAFTA, then you can get a work permit in Canada without getting an LMIA first (provided you have a job offer). However in that case you'll need to work in Canada for a full year before you'll qualify for the 50 points. Of course as you wait that year, you'll lose further age points under Express Entry.

IMO, before you worry about career transition, sort out if you can actually immigrate to Canada successfully.

 

[Fxguy1]

IMO, before you worry about career transition, sort out if you can actually immigrate to Canada successfully.

How do I know if we can immigrate successfully? I think our biggest issue is the lack of Canadian experience. The whole process is complicated by COVID-19. In normal times we could just decide to cross the border, find someplace to live, get a temporary work permit and gain experience which would solve the CRS score issue. But with COVID-19 the border is closed and so we're stuck needing a Non-Essential reason to cross the border.

As for NAFTA, my wife qualifies as a Nurse. I could qualify as a Chemist, Pharmacist, Teacher, or Research Assistant. All those are professions covered under NAFTA.

So if I apply for a job currently, when it asks if I can legally work in Canada, what do I answer?

 

[Fxguy1]

Basically what we would like to know is how can we get across the border with 100% certainty? It's my understanding that once we are actually inside Canada this process would become easier / additional options become available as opposed from outside the country.

 

[scylla]

Basically what we would like to know is how can we get across the border with 100% certainty? It's my understanding that once we are actually inside Canada this process would become easier / additional options become available as opposed from outside the country.

I'm not sure I understand this. The process is the same regardless of whether you are in Canada or outside of Canada. There are no additional options available just because you are in Canada as visitors. The requirements are the same.

You can't 'move' to Canada as visitors. If you try that, expect problems at the border.

 

[scylla]

How do I know if we can immigrate successfully? I think our biggest issue is the lack of Canadian experience. The whole process is complicated by COVID-19. In normal times we could just decide to cross the border, find someplace to live, get a temporary work permit and gain experience which would solve the CRS score issue. But with COVID-19 the border is closed and so we're stuck needing a Non-Essential reason to cross the border.

As for NAFTA, my wife qualifies as a Nurse. I could qualify as a Chemist, Pharmacist, Teacher, or Research Assistant. All those are professions covered under NAFTA.

So if I apply for a job currently, when it asks if I can legally work in Canada, what do I answer?

If you are applying for a job, you must say that you cannot legally work in Canada at this time. You can explain that with a job offer, you'll be able to apply for a work permit at the border under NAFTA. However at this time you are certainly not entitled to work in Canada.

No, in normal circumstances you could not just cross the border with an intent to live in Canada and find a job. You're only allowed to enter as visitors which means a temporary stay. Trying to enter as visitors with the intent to remain long term is a really good way to end up with a refused entry or even a one year exclusion order (i.e. ban).

How do you know if you can immigrate successfully? For Express Entry, you need 470+ points to be selected. So you need to achieve that level of points. As said previously, if you come to Canada on a work permit through NAFTA (i.e. no LMIA), you will need to work in Canada for a full year before you'll qualify for the 50 job offer points. If you don't think you can get to the 470+ point range, then you'll need to research the PNP programs to see if any of those are an option. There's really no short cut to dedicating time to researching and reading about the requirements - apart from hiring an immigration lawyer to help you (I would stay away from consultants).

 

[Fxguy1]

How do you know if you can immigrate successfully? For Express Entry, you need 470+ points to be selected. So you need to achieve that level of points. As said previously, if you come to Canada on a work permit through NAFTA (i.e. no LMIA), you will need to work in Canada for a full year before you'll qualify for the 50 job offer points. If you don't think you can get to the 470+ point range, then you'll need to research the PNP programs to see if any of those are an option. There's really no short cut to dedicating time to researching and reading about the requirements - apart from hiring an immigration lawyer to help you (I would stay away from consultants).

So this is where I'm a bit confused. Currently I have 427 points for Express Entry. So if we came to Canada on a work permit through NAFTA, then yes, I'm certain we can get 470+ points.

Many of the provincial nomination programs require a job offer. If that job offer can be through a NAFTA work permit then again, we will be fine applying.

It seems the issue then is getting a job offer for a NAFTA profession while still in the US. That seems to be the best / easiest route for us to pursue. Or is that incorrect?

I'm not trying to circumvent hard work and research, but at times it can feel a lot like going in circles when trying to clarify something. For example, the letter from IRCC when submitting an Express Entry profile does NOT cover ANY of the details about applying for jobs, work permits, or anything. It basically gives a link to JOB Bank.

 

[scylla]

So this is where I'm a bit confused. Currently I have 427 points for Express Entry. So if we came to Canada on a work permit through NAFTA, then yes, I'm certain we can get 470+ points.

Many of the provincial nomination programs require a job offer. If that job offer can be through a NAFTA work permit then again, we will be fine applying.

It seems the issue then is getting a job offer for a NAFTA profession while still in the US. That seems to be the best / easiest route for us to pursue. Or is that incorrect?

I'm not trying to circumvent hard work and research, but at times it can feel a lot like going in circles when trying to clarify something. For example, the letter from IRCC when submitting an Express Entry profile does NOT cover ANY of the details about applying for jobs, work permits, or anything. It basically gives a link to JOB Bank.

Yes, you need to get the job offer while you are still in the U.S. You can't just up and move to Canada.

If you get the job offer under NAFTA, then in order to get the 50 points, you need to move to Canada under a work permit and work in Canada for a full year before you'll qualify for the 50 points. Additionally, your employer will need to give you a letter stating that they will continue to employ you for at least one year after you become a PR.

If you want the 50 points now / immediately, then the employer would need to obtain an approved LMIA. The LMIA process is a huge PITA (with no guarantee of approval) so very difficult to find employers willing to go through it, although some are certainly successful.

You can see what constitutes a job offer under EE on the IRCC web site:

https://www.cic.gc.ca/english/helpcentre/answer.asp?qnum=695&top=29

 

[Fxguy1]

If you want the 50 points now / immediately, then the employer would need to obtain an approved LMIA. The LMIA process is a huge PITA (with no guarantee of approval) so very difficult to find employers willing to go through it, although some are certainly successful.

So is it more likely for an employer to do an LMIA OR offer a job and a letter for continued employment for a yr after PR?

 

[Fxguy1]

Sorry, just wanted to point out that this isnt a post-US election spur of the moment decision. My wife and I decided prior to COVID-19 that we wanted to immigrate to Canada because our values are more closely aligned with Canada than the US. Our problem was COVID hit and it stalled us getting our passport renewals and being able to even register for IRCC. We have since gotten registered for IRCC, taken the CELPIP, and had our education credentials evaluated by World Education Services. Not that it makes any difference but didnt want anyone to think oh here we go again with an American unhappy and wanting to move because Trump didnt win.

We voted for Biden by the way so we are happy, but it still doesnt change our desire to immigrate.

 

[scylla]

Sorry, just wanted to point out that this isnt a post-US election spur of the moment decision. My wife and I decided prior to COVID-19 that we wanted to immigrate to Canada because our values are more closely aligned with Canada than the US. Our problem was COVID hit and it stalled us getting our passport renewals and being able to even register for IRCC. We have since gotten registered for IRCC, taken the CELPIP, and had our education credentials evaluated by World Education Services. Not that it makes any difference but didnt want anyone to think oh here we go again with an American unhappy and wanting to move because Trump didnt win.

We voted for Biden by the way so we are happy, but it still doesnt change our desire to immigrate.

I don't think anyone here really cares about people's motivations. It's ultimately a personal choice. My husband is American and we made the decision a long time ago to make Canada our home. But again, totally personal decision. If I could go back 15 years, I'm thinking a play for NZ citizenship would have been smart.

Utlimately for your family, it would have been better if you'd made a go of this several years ago. You would have had a higher chance of being approved / easier time qualifying. Harder now. Based on you having 13 years of work experience, your age is working against you now and you've lost points already. Every year that goes by will mean more points lost. But of course nothing you can do about that. COVID-19 has also increased application it seems to Canada. Keep in mind that there's no special stream for Americans. You have to qualify along with everyone else and compete against their credentials / scores. Lower scores were seen a few years ago. You really need 470+ to be selected now. So that's the situation.

 

[scylla]

So is it more likely for an employer to do an LMIA OR offer a job and a letter for continued employment for a yr after PR?

It's extremely difficult to find employers willing to go through the LMIA process. If you want to know what is involved, read here:

https://www.canada.ca/en/employment-social-development/services/foreign-workers/median-wage/high/requirements.html

Easier to work in Canada under a NAFTA work permit since no LMIA is required. But that doesn't mean it's super easy to find an employer, it's just easier than an LMIA. Some employers are willing to give you the letter saying they will employ you for one year after PR. Some are not. So ultimately a dice roll on whether you'll be able to claim 50 points under a NAFTA work permit after a year.

The very best option is to qualify to apply for PR without any sort of reliance on a job offer. Canada has recently announced that individuals who know French will be given additional points under Express Entry. If you are strong with languages, learning French could be one option to consider to boost your points. This might be more realistic than finding an employer / job in the current environment.

 

[Fxguy1]

So the CRS score breakdown is here :
CRS Score Breakdown

It says there arranged employment of NOC 0,A,or B gets 50 points. How is arranged employment different from job offer?

Also are the educational points cumulative? I have a doctorates degree, a bachelors degree, and a certificate. Do I only get points for the highest degree earned?

IRCC is down for scheduled maintenance so can’t check a lot of things specific to my application at the moment.

 

[scylla]

So the CRS score breakdown is here :
CRS Score Breakdown

It says there arranged employment of NOC 0,A,or B gets 50 points. How is arranged employment different from job offer?

Also are the educational points cumulative? I have a doctorates degree, a bachelors degree, and a certificate. Do I only get points for the highest degree earned?

IRCC is down for scheduled maintenance so can’t check a lot of things specific to my application at the moment.

Arranged employment is the same thing as a job offer. Rules that I listed above apply (as well as the fact that it needs to be in a skilled NOC).

You will get points for your highest degree. No, they are not cumulative.