Exceptions to the 730 days rule

[gauri.gupta08]

Hi,

I received my PR status in June 2010 and landed in Canada for a week and went back to India. I have now moved to Canada since May 2013 and intend to stay here until June 2015 in order to maintain my PR status. As per some of the exceptions to the 730 days rule, under the Canadian business definitions (in this document: cic.gc.ca/english/resources/manuals/op/op10-eng.pdf), I found this piece: enterprises that have an ongoing operation in Canada, capable of generating revenue, are carried out in anticipation of profit and in which a majority of voting or ownership interests is held by Canadian citizens, permanent residents.

I plan to set up my own HR consulting firm here (one man army for the time being), and work with a Dubai based company on a contractual basis. I may need to travel to Dubai from time to time on work. Given this scenario, can you please confirm if my days in Dubai will be counted in the 730 day period?

Look forward to your response.

Thank you so much!

 

[scylla]

I plan to set up my own HR consulting firm here (one man army for the time being), and work with a Dubai based company on a contractual basis. I may need to travel to Dubai from time to time on work. Given this scenario, can you please confirm if my days in Dubai will be counted in the 730 day period?

No - your days in Dubai definitely will not count towards the residency requirement. You can't set up your own company to help you count days outside of Canada towards your PR status. CIC will say the business was created primarily for the purpose of allowing you to satisfy your residency obligation and will not let you count the days outside of Canada.

A company must meet an extensive list of criteria for your days outside of Canada to count for the residency obligation. You can see those criteria in the following link under Option 2 - Employment Outside of Canada:

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/information/applications/guides/5445ETOC.asp#appendixA

 

[gauri.gupta08]

Hi,

Thank you soo much for your prompt response!

The link you shared is very helpful. I genuinely do work on a contractual / project basis with a Dubai based firm and would file taxes showing my/business income at the end of the year. I could also provide RFP/ billing details for the projects I work on and travel for. However, at the moment I do not have any Canadian clients.

Do I still not qualify? Look forward to your response. Thank you!

 

[scylla]

Hi,

Thank you soo much for your prompt response!

The link you shared is very helpful. I genuinely do work on a contractual / project basis with a Dubai based firm and would file taxes showing my/business income at the end of the year. I could also provide RFP/ billing details for the projects I work on and travel for. However, at the moment I do not have any Canadian clients.

Do I still not qualify? Look forward to your response. Thank you

No - you still don't qualify. You simply have a job outside of Canada. Having a job outside of Canada does not allow you to count days spent outside of Canada towards your PR residency requirement.

To qualify, you would first have to be hired by an existing Canadian company for a job within Canada. After working in Canada for some time, if that company then transferred you to a job outside of Canada - then you could count these days for residency. This is the scenario CIC will accept.

CIC would clearly classify your scenario as: "the business was created primarily for the purpose of allowing you to satisfy your residency obligation" and will definitely not let you count the days outside of Canada.

If it was that easy, everyone would just set up their own company in Canada (like you plan to do), go work outside of Canada and then claim the days outside of Canada towards PR without having to spend any time in the country. CIC obviously caught on to this a very long time ago and this loop hole is closed.

 

[Msafiri]

Hi,
.....I plan to set up my own HR consulting firm here (one man army for the time being), and work with a Dubai based company on a contractual basis. I may need to travel to Dubai from time to time on work. Given this scenario, can you please confirm if my days in Dubai will be counted in the 730 day period?

Look forward to your response.

Thank you so much!

As per your own words highlighted CIC will rightly consider this a mom and pop operation set up to try and work round the residency rules. Sorry no dice regardless of how you cut it...CIC as per Scylla expected a flood of such set ups and made the rule stringent. Tell me your business turnover and expected profits (based on tangible projections) and I'll tell you what chance if any you stand.

 

[gauri.gupta08]

Hi both,

Thank you so much for your response.

I am working out the numbers and will get back to you shortly. Can I reach you over an email or phone directly as I am not too comfortable sharing financial projects publically.

Thank you once again.

 

[zardoz]

As we say in my country, you are "flogging a dead horse". There is zero chance of you making this work the way that you want.

 

[Msafiri]

Hi both,

Thank you so much for your response.

I am working out the numbers and will get back to you shortly. Can I reach you over an email or phone directly as I am not too comfortable sharing financial projects publically.

Thank you once again.

Once you get to 10 messages you can send pm to forum members. A ballpark figure is ok - for example if your turnover is 80 Million USD and profits are 20 Million USD then CIC will see the viability but you still have the one man angle to it plus the business should have set up in Canada then assigned you overseas. CIC effectively designed the exemption to benefit large Canadian based multinationals/ well established corporate tigers - these companies need the flexibility to place their personnel (usually exec level) on overseas assignments.

 

[scylla]

As we say in my country, you are "flogging a dead horse". There is zero chance of you making this work the way that you want.

Agreed.

If you want to keep you PR status, then you'll need to physically remain in Canada without leaving the country until you meet the residency requirement and can apply for a new PR card.

If your job is more important, then forget about your PR status.

That's really the choice you have to make.

 

[neoseal]

Does this mean, that genuine small businessman who need to travel overseas for business purpose will not have their days outside Canada counted towards 730 days. Will they not consider the amount of turnover, profit and taxes that will be paid? Let's say my business need is to travel certain number of days in a month outside Canada, will they not allow this?

 

[steaky]

Does this mean, that genuine small businessman who need to travel overseas for business purpose will not have their days outside Canada counted towards 730 days.

Yes, but you have 5 years to accumulate that 730 days to meet the PR obligations. Also, if you are accompanying your Canadian spouse, your time with the spouse is count even you are outside the country.

 

[zardoz]

Does this mean, that genuine small businessman who need to travel overseas for business purpose will not have their days outside Canada counted towards 730 days. Will they not consider the amount of turnover, profit and taxes that will be paid? Let's say my business need is to travel certain number of days in a month outside Canada, will they not allow this?

Also, if you decide to apply for citizenship, you will find it "interesting" when you get the almost certain "residence questionnaire".

 

[neoseal]

That is true that we have 5 years to accumulate 730 days, however if someone only comes in for the last 730 days of the 5 years, then would you say that it is not advisable to leave the country even for business purpose or even if employed and your job requires to.

Is the residency questionnaire a way to deter people from leaving the country or is it just to assess the genuineness. Can someone tell me what questions they ask in residency questionnaire.

Thanks.

 

[zardoz]

The residence questionnaire is to assess whether you have met the mandatory requirements. You would need to detail EVERY visit outside Canada over the required period, and if required, be able to prove each entry.
Unless very specific conditions apply, any days spent outside Canada do not count either towards residency or citizenship. It's all documented on the CIC web site.

 

[misag]

Will time spent in Canada on a student visa/permit immediately before obtaining PR status count towards 730 day rule. I ask because I may have to leave if I do not get entry into a Canadian medical school at the end of my four year degree course. I am currently in my third year at university and my family are hopeful of getting PR status in the next 18 months. I would like to return to Canada eventually.