Different NOCs confusion.

[hossamo33]

I am a little confused with this NOC thing. I set my primary NOC as 0211, and I have have two years experience for that NOC. I have an additional one year experience that is closer to NOC 1215. Can I list both NOC's for my work history? 2 years for 0211 and one year for 1215? If yes, then on what basis does one decide his primary NOC? Will it affect my points? I already received ITA! I remember having a problem of 'profile ineligibility' when first creating my profile and i figured it was because I had listed two different NOC's. Is this true?

Please help!

 

[hossamo33]

Well, what did you do in your profile before receiving your ITA?

You need to be very careful with changes of NOC as this can render you ineligible, which will result in an immediate rejection of your application.

Answer the following question:

What did you list exactly in the profile that got you the ITA? Which NOC codes with how many years? What did you set as your primary NOC?
What are you considering to change post ITA?

Before receiving ITA, I set my primary NOC to 0211. I have three years of work experience. I listed my work history as follows;

1st year of work experience under 0211, and the remaining and current two years of experience also under 0211.

I now want to change the 1st year of work experience to NOC 1215, as I feel it is closer to that NOC. That's all.

Is that ok?

 

[hossamo33]

This should be fine. Assuming you are applying under FSW, the crucial point is that you need to demonstrate at least 1 year of continuous experience in the same skill type that you nominated as your primary NOC. This seems to be the case as long as you leave the primary NOC as 0211.

Thank you dan for tryin to help. I'm still confused though.

Yes I am applying under FSW. So, I shall keep my primary NOC at 0211 and my current (2) year experience under the same NOC. Now theres that one year experience that I want to change to 1215. I understand that you say that is ok. So after the changes, will it affect the points i get for my total number years of experience, namely 3?

In other words, will changing that one year experience to another NOC have any affect on my eligibility? Please confirm!

Thanks again!

 

[Asivad Anac]

Your eligibility will not be affected if you make the proposed change.

You will meet the minimum requirement, which is 12 months continuous full time (or part-time equivalent) work in your primary NOC.
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/tools/perm/econ/fsw/minimum.asp

For the FSW points system, you can add up the experience of different NOCs, so your experience will still count as 3 years.
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/tools/perm/econ/fsw/work.asp

According to the above, you are still eligible.

Your CRS points will also remain unchanged, as explained here (see section 25):
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/department/mi/express-entry.asp

The only remaining thing to consider is that you are making a change against your EE profile. You should explain in an LoE why you are making this change.

Under FSW, you cannot count experience gained under multiple NOCs. You can do that only for CRS calculations.

 

[hossamo33]

Your eligibility will not be affected if you make the proposed change.

You will meet the minimum requirement, which is 12 months continuous full time (or part-time equivalent) work in your primary NOC.
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/tools/perm/econ/fsw/minimum.asp

For the FSW points system, you can add up the experience of different NOCs, so your experience will still count as 3 years.
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/tools/perm/econ/fsw/work.asp

According to the above, you are still eligible.

Your CRS points will also remain unchanged, as explained here (see section 25):
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/department/mi/express-entry.asp

The only remaining thing to consider is that you are making a change against your EE profile. You should explain in an LoE why you are making this change.

Thanks dan!! Appreciate your kind help!

 

[Asivad Anac]

Do you have a source for that, Asivad? Everything that I'm aware of says that for the FSW points grid, NOCs can be combined. It's only for the minimum criteria of 12 months that you can't combine NOCs.

"To be eligible for points, the applicant's work experience must:

have occurred during the 10 years immediately preceding the date of application;
have been acquired in occupations listed at Skill Type 0 (Managerial occupations), Skill Level A (Professional occupations) or B (Technical occupations and skilled trades) of NOC 2011;
not be in an occupation that has been designated by the Minister as a restricted occupation; and
have been full-time paid work (or the equivalent in paid part-time work)."

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/tools/perm/econ/fsw/work.asp

http://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/counting-work-experience-fsw-t232856.0.html;msg3455490#msg3455490
http://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/question-on-work-experience-points-points-given-across-multiple-nocs-t206750.0.html;msg3165444#msg3165444

The source is that, till 2014, FSW counted experience gained under a single NOC only. There has been no change in those regulations. With the advent of EE, one can count experience under multiple NOCs for points gained in Foreign or Canadian work experience. But the basic eligibility criteria for EE (1 year of continuous full-time paid work experience) and FSW grid (9 to 15 points based on work experience from 1 to 6+ years) are both under a single NOC except if stated differently anywhere.

Note the difference in language when CIC describes foreign work experience under MI for EE.

25. (1) For the purposes of sections 23 and 24, foreign work experience is work experience that

(a) is acquired by a foreign national outside Canada in one or more occupations listed in Skill Type 0 Management Occupations or Skill Level A or B of the National Occupational Classification matrix;
(b) consists of full-time work experience, or the full-time equivalent for part-time work experience, with one or more employers; and
(c) is acquired within the 10-year period preceding the day on which points are assigned to the foreign national under section 23 or subsection 24(1).

 

[Asivad Anac]

Disagree.

There are 3 ways of looking at work experience.

1. Basic EE eligibility for FSW - 1 year of continuous full-time paid work experience acquired in the primary NOC within the last 10 years (3 years for CEC)

2. CRS - Maxes out at 3+ years and cuts across multiple NOCs including primary NOC.

3. FSW points - Maxes out at 6+ years of experience gained under the primary NOC. Enough applicants have reported accidental ineligibility because they went in, tweaked their profile especially the NOCs against each work experience and accidentally fell below 67/100.

FSWP was always about experience gained under select NOCs and that continues unchanged. EE democratizes that superficially by awarding points under CRS for all work experience but basic FSW eligibility grid still offers points for experience gained under a single NOC. That is why choosing Primary NOC is of paramount importance for FSW applicants - it is not just the NOC where they have 1 year of continuous experience but also the NOC which can give them the highest points (out of 9/11/13/15) on the FSWP grid.

 

[cryptic0]

This is a very interesting and thought provoking discussion. Thank you both.

 

[hossamo33]

I think im better off not changing anything, just in case. Asivad may be correct because my profile had been ineligible before because I had two different NOC's for my job experiences. I dont know!

 

[sheen]

HI,

DO I NEED TO UPLOAD ALL THE PAGES OF THE PASSPORT OR JUST THE FIRST- LAST PAGE AND THE ONES WITH STAMPS?

THANKS

 

[Asivad Anac]

This is simply not true.

Here is a link to the official application guide from 2014:
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/information/applications/guides/EG7TOC.asp

Due to it being replaced by the EE process in 2015, it is no longer online. Using the wayback machine, here is the application guide in its version from September 2014:
http://web.archive.org/web/20140902160635/http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/information/applications/guides/EG7TOC.asp#eg72b

"Factor 3: Work experience (maximum of 15 points)

You will receive points for the number of years of full-time paid work (or the equivalent in part-time paid work) you have obtained within the last ten years. Full-time means at least 30 hours of paid work in one week.

You must have at least one year of continuous full-time, paid work experience (or the equivalent in continuous part-time work) in the primary occupation you specify in your application.

In order to receive points for all of the jobs you have had over the past ten years, your work experience must be in one or more occupations listed in Skill Type 0, Skill Level A or B of NOC 2011. Follow the Determining your NOC category instructions above to find the NOC 2011 category that matches your skilled work experience over the past ten years."

It doesn't get much clearer than that. I have not found any evidence on CIC's website that this has changed.

Excellent find and I stand corrected though it seems strange nonetheless because FSWP was all about select NOCs (50 privileged NOCs in 2014 for instance). And if this is the case, then primary NOC is just concerned with that 1 year of continuous work experience.

Which doesn't explain why people found themselves ineligible by changing their individual work experience NOCs. Something strange going on around this.

 

[hossamo33]

Thank you Dan and Asivad for the time spent in clarifying and helping. I will do some more reading before making my final application submission.

Thanks again guys!! Much appreciated.

Cheers!

 

[kateg]

I now want to change the 1st year of work experience to NOC 1215, as I feel it is closer to that NOC. That's all.

Is that ok?

It's up to the agent, as long as it won't render you ineligible for the draw.

For our application, we changed the NOC between ITA and application. We included a letter of explanation why, and apologized for any confusion. The application was approved without issue.