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Counting Number of Days for PR Application

sushmet

Star Member
Mar 20, 2012
101
1
Hi,

I am confused about how to calculate number of days in PR application. For my case for past 5 years (Starting from June 12, 2010 considering I would apply on June 12, 2015).

1. As per Residence Guidelines for Citizenship a absence or presence on February 29th of the leap year is NOT counted. I am wondering if this rule also applies while counting number of days for PR application as well (I assume that procedure to count number of days for PR and Citizenship should be same).
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,505
3,276
sushmet said:
Hi,

I am confused about how to calculate number of days in PR application. For my case for past 5 years (Starting from June 12, 2010 considering I would apply on June 12, 2015).

1. As per Residence Guidelines for Citizenship a absence or presence on February 29th of the leap year is NOT counted. I am wondering if this rule also applies while counting number of days for PR application as well (I assume that procedure to count number of days for PR and Citizenship should be same).
My understanding is that for CIC and calculating residency, for almost any purpose including compliance with the PR Residency Obligation, it is as if February 29, when there is a February 29, did NOT exist. Been awhile since I confirmed this is as true for PR residency calculations as it is citizenship, but my recall is that this is a consistent rule.

Caution: If whether a single day counts in the calculation, or not, is important, that suggests high risk for problems. For example, a PR who makes an application for a new PR card on June 12, 2015, and who declares he or she was present in Canada for 735 days (let alone 731 or exactly 730) within the previous five years, should anticipate delays in processing the application and a high risk there will secondary review with some elevated degree of scrutiny, if not a full blown Residency Determination. For a PR abroad applying for a PR Travel Document, or approaching a Canadian POE to return to Canada, again reporting 735 days within the previous five years risks problems. What I am trying to emphasize is that relying on the precise number of days is inherently risky . . . so whether or not a particular day, like February 29, 2012, counts really has NO significance.
 

sushmet

Star Member
Mar 20, 2012
101
1
dpenabill said:
My understanding is that for CIC and calculating residency, for almost any purpose including compliance with the PR Residency Obligation, it is as if February 29, when there is a February 29, did NOT exist. Been awhile since I confirmed this is as true for PR residency calculations as it is citizenship, but my recall is that this is a consistent rule.

Caution: If whether a single day counts in the calculation, or not, is important, that suggests high risk for problems. For example, a PR who makes an application for a new PR card on June 12, 2015, and who declares he or she was present in Canada for 735 days (let alone 731 or exactly 730) within the previous five years, should anticipate delays in processing the application and a high risk there will secondary review with some elevated degree of scrutiny, if not a full blown Residency Determination. For a PR abroad applying for a PR Travel Document, or approaching a Canadian POE to return to Canada, again reporting 735 days within the previous five years risks problems. What I am trying to emphasize is that relying on the precise number of days is inherently risky . . . so whether or not a particular day, like February 29, 2012, counts really has NO significance.
So what is the safe limit? 740 days or 745 days?
 

CanV

Champion Member
Apr 30, 2012
1,237
156
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sushmet said:
Hi,

I am confused about how to calculate number of days in PR application. For my case for past 5 years (Starting from June 12, 2010 considering I would apply on June 12, 2015).

1. As per Residence Guidelines for Citizenship a absence or presence on February 29th of the leap year is NOT counted. I am wondering if this rule also applies while counting number of days for PR application as well (I assume that procedure to count number of days for PR and Citizenship should be same).
There is no rule but don't count it just to be on the safe side.
 

sushmet

Star Member
Mar 20, 2012
101
1
CanV said:
There is no rule but don't count it just to be on the safe side.
I know that there is no rule of what is safe. But I am strongly banking on fact that:

1. I have very few entries and exits from Canada
2. I have my tickets, my boarding passes,my bag tags and all stamps on passports are in English to match my entry and exit in
Canada

However as a rule of thumb what would be CONSIDERABLY safe? What CIC is looking for is less than 1095 days outside Canada in last 5 years and I plan apply with 1083 days outside CANADA. What are my chances here?

Whatever I have looked so far, people having too many entries and exits and many of them to USA is the major cause of delay in application. Fortunately my only exit from Canada in last 5 years is to my home country.

PLEASE advise what do you think.
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,505
3,276
sushmet said:
I know that there is no rule of what is safe. But I am strongly banking on fact that:

1. I have very few entries and exits from Canada
2. I have my tickets, my boarding passes,my bag tags and all stamps on passports are in English to match my entry and exit in
Canada

However as a rule of thumb what would be CONSIDERABLY safe? What CIC is looking for is less than 1095 days outside Canada in last 5 years and I plan apply with 1083 days outside CANADA. What are my chances here?

Whatever I have looked so far, people having too many entries and exits and many of them to USA is the major cause of delay in application. Fortunately my only exit from Canada in last 5 years is to my home country.

PLEASE advise what do you think.
Foremost: my point was that the precise number of days matters far less than other factors. That is, it is NOT all about the numbers.

One or ten days, more or less, will not usually be what determines how these things go. Other factors will have more influence. (Of course, meeting the absolute minimum, 730, is imperative.)

So, 741 versus 753, or 782, does not matter so much as all the other facts and circumstances.

Or even 815 . . . which still indicates the PR has spent less than half his or her time in Canada, which by the way would support an inference that he or she was outside Canada any time for which it is not certain he or she was in Canada . . . that is, if there is any doubt about a period of time, a stranger bureaucrat could infer that individual was more likely where he or she spent most of the time, and if most of the time was outside Canada, the reasonable inference is obvious.

I am no expert, and I am not qualified to offer advice in personal cases, BUT even for someone with expertise and qualified to offer advice in personal cases, there is no firm guideline for forecasting who will encounter delayed processing, a secondary review, or even a full blown Residency Determination.

You cite some relevant factors. But there are many variables, many relevant factors. It is not so much about what will be safe, but about whether there are any facts, circumstances, or history which fit the criteria CIC employs to identify risk indicators or a reason-to-question-residency (CIC is scretive about the criteria used and the terms they use sometimes varies).

So there is no safe set of facts, so to say. The key is not having one of the facts that will trigger the secondary review.

And, any PR could be subject to secondary review . . . and at least in the not too distant past, CIC was overtly subjecting a certain percentage of PR card applications to a random referral for secondary review.

In other words: no guarantees.

But there are situations more likely to trigger elevated scrutiny and secondary review. And sure, you probably want to avoid those. But again, it is not likely to be about the specific number of days (so long as the minimum is declared and there are no obvious discrepancies in that).

Worse case scenario is that you have to submit proof of where you have been living and working in Canada, and that it takes longer to actually get the PR card.

You could wait an additional six months to make the application, to give yourself a margin (I am assuming that would take you to having spent more than half the last five years in Canada), but some other factor may still trigger secondary review . . . or an application in June could stall some but you still get the card in three or four months.

Or it could sail through without a problem.

I just doubt that having 758 days, rather than applying with 739, will make the difference. So, whether February 29, 2012 counts will have virtually no effect.