Confused with PNP and Express entry

[curious_123]

Hello

I have provincial nominee from Ontario. Shall I continue with my PNP procedure or apply for express class?

Thank you all in advance

 

[n.zaman]

I have the same concern

 

[militellovincenzo]

I have the same concern.
Actually I have already sent my PR application and they already received my medical exam.
Therefore my ECAS is not yet in IP state, and I am wondering if they will tell my to start over and apply for the Express Entry program on Jan 2015.

CIC updated one week ago the Express Entry page

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/immigrate/express/express-entry.asp

and what I cannot understand is what they mean with "A portion of the Provincial Nominee Program (PNP)"

Anyone has a clue about it?

 

[Mbgirlfriend]

I have the same concern.
Actually I have already sent my PR application and they already received my medical exam.
Therefore my ECAS is not yet in IP state, and I am wondering if they will tell my to start over and apply for the Express Entry program on Jan 2015.

CIC updated one week ago the Express Entry page

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/immigrate/express/express-entry.asp

and what I cannot understand is what they mean with "A portion of the Provincial Nominee Program (PNP)"

Anyone has a clue about it?

I am not sure but from what I can understand from the wording is that the PNP will be able to recruit people who apply to the Express Entry program into their PNP. So people who go into Express Entry may not actually have to apply to a specific PNP. Instead A PNP will basically offer the person a nomination or ask them to apply to their PNP and then very quickly approve them for that PNP. After that the person would apply to CIC with the invitation from the Express Entry and the PNP.


My understanding of the process is that you apply to Express Entry and then you basically wait to be invited to apply by CIC. From what else I understand from the little information available about how Express Entry is going to work is that people can basically apply to it and if they have a high enough rating they will be asked to then apply for PR and their applications will be approved very quickly (within 6 months). Only people with the highest ratings will be told to to apply.

People with PNP nominations (meaning people who have applied to a specific PNP and been approved) or who are already working in Canada will have the highest ratings so it should be a given that if someone gets a PNP nomination on their own they will then be invited by the Express Entry Program to apply to CIC and have their application move faster.

So basically my understanding is that there will be two ways to get a PNP. One will be to apply yourself the other will be to apply to the Express Entry and hope that one of the PNP ask you to apply to their PNP (basically knowing they will approve you quickly).

I am not sure if this new Express Entry could actually benefit people who have just or are just about to get their PNP nomination. My boyfriend just got his at the beginning of November and we should have all his documents together and ready to send in a few week. We are not sure if we should wait until Express Entry opens and if he should apply to that and hope to get the faster processing time. There is no way to tell how fast it will take to get approved (or invited as they put it) by the Express Entry since it is a new program. All it says about the time line is that once you are invited to Apply to CIC by the Express Entry that is will take 6 months to get PR. It does not say how long it will take to get this "invitation to apply" from the Express Entry.

 

[Mbgirlfriend]

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/pdf/pub/ee-presentation-en.pdf

 

[Mbgirlfriend]

People with PNP nominations (meaning people who have applied to a specific PNP and been approved) or who are already working in Canada will have the highest ratings so it should be a given that if someone gets a PNP nomination on their own they will then be invited by the Express Entry Program to apply to CIC and have their application move faster.

The more I read the more this part becomes confusing and don't think this is correct. Now I am thinking that when they talk about people with a PNP nomination they are only talking about people who get nominated after applying to the Express Entry. Meaning people the province have searched for within the Express Entry system and given PNP nominations to.

So now I am thinking that if you get the PNP nomination by applying to Express Entry you will be given the Invitation to Apply and your application will process faster on line. But if you get the PNP nomination by applying directly to the PNP and not the Express Entry then you do not use the Express Entry Invitation and apply on line to CIC. I think then you will have to apply by paper the same way you would right now.

If this is the case then only PNP nomination where people have actually applied directly to PNP will not be processed on line all other streams must apply first to the Express Entry then if given an invitation can apply on line to CIC. I am not sure if this will be a good thing or a bad thing. It will depend on how much staff they leave to work on the paper applications. The fact only the best of the best will be allowed to even apply to CIC after getting an invitation from the Express Entry may mean that they will spend less time working on weak applications.

In the current system PNP nominations get priority (they give you that sticker to place on the envelope you send your application in). But now it appears that only PNP applications (meaning PNP where a person applied to the PNP not PNP where the province has selected a nominee from the Express Entry system) to CIC will be done on paper all other applications to CIC will have to have got an Invitation from the Express Entry and will be done on line and be complete within 6 months.

This is all very confusing and I don't think it will even become clear until a few weeks after the new system starts. They will have many issues come up that they haven't thought off yet. I am hoping that if my BF applies just before the new system and while there are still lots of paper applications being processed from the old system that his application will at least be processed in the same amount of time it would have if he had applied 6 months ago. I am just hoping that the sticker from PNP will still mean something. I am thinking that anyone with a sticker from PNP on their applications will still be processed faster than other applications to CIC and maybe they will focus on those more while still trying to sort out the current paper applications to other streams.

I think right now all we can do is to try to make educated guesses about how this will affect people who get PNP nominations by applying directly to a PNP and prepare for each possibility.

 

[curious_123]

Hey I am equally confused.My understanding is there will be quota of say 2500. Of which some will get though PNP and some will get though EE. If you already have PNP than you should not apply to EE.

Now here is more confusing part, I have applied for PNP and my application will be processed next year (basically Ontario will get the quota on February and will start processing then).

-NOW, I can apply for EE since i do not have Provincial nominee.
-but what if I get the invitation to apply and get provincial nominee at the same time

 

[militellovincenzo]

I might be wrong, but what I think is that the PNP Office is allowed to pick up from the EE pool profiles which the province needs, up to the cap for the PNP.
I will try to explain it with an example.

John Doe, who is a certified plumber from Sweden, is in Canada with let's say a WHV. He doesn't have a job yet and he apply for the EE.
The Province of New Brunswick is out of plumbers, and the EE allow the PNP program to search for this profiles on the EE pool.
They find John, which is still with no job, and they contact him to see if he wants to go in New Brunswick, because they already know that they don't have enough plumbers there.
John can say yes, and apply for the PNP. From there, he can apply for the PR.

Of course, if he's in Vancouve and he wants to work in BC and not in NB, he will need to find a sponsorship and try to apply for the PNP as usual (with sponsorship and so on)

It's just an hypothesis, but it's the only one that make sense to me.

 

[Mbgirlfriend]

I might be wrong, but what I think is that the PNP Office is allowed to pick up from the EE pool profiles which the province needs, up to the cap for the PNP.
I will try to explain it with an example.

John Doe, who is a certified plumber from Sweden, is in Canada with let's say a WHV. He doesn't have a job yet and he apply for the EE.
The Province of New Brunswick is out of plumbers, and the EE allow the PNP program to search for this profiles on the EE pool.
They find John, which is still with no job, and they contact him to see if he wants to go in New Brunswick, because they already know that they don't have enough plumbers there.
John can say yes, and apply for the PNP. From there, he can apply for the PR.

Of course, if he's in Vancouve and he wants to work in BC and not in NB, he will need to find a sponsorship and try to apply for the PNP as usual (with sponsorship and so on)

It's just an hypothesis, but it's the only one that make sense to me.

This is what I thought too and tried to explain but you did a better job of explaining it.

I think the one of the questions left is how the new Express Entry will impact people who get PNP nominations on their own by applying directly to the PNP of their choice? I am hoping that by finding a way to speed up the other streams that the PNP applications to CIC will also speed, hopefully the whole immigration system will speed up.

The other questions are if a person puts their profile on EE can they also apply to a specific PNP while they have a profile on the EE? If they get a PNP nomination can they apply to CIC while they have a profile on the EE system or will they have to remove their profile from the EE and will there be a way to remove a profile?

It seems as if all other streams for applying for PR now have to go through the EE before they can submit an application to CIC. The benefit that is once you get the invitation your PR application will process very fast because it will all be on-line. But if you are a PNP nominee you do not get the chance to get to apply on line to CIC for your PR you still have to do the paper application. This seems a little like they have just forgot to include the people who get PNP nominations on their own in the whole EE system. Why wouldn't they also include people who get the PNP nomination by applying to the PNP directly in the new EE? Why wouldn't they want those applications to be done on line too? It would make sense to just give all PNP nominees an Invitation to Apply automatically but it doesn't seem like they are doing that.

The down side for people who have to go through EE before getting a chance to apply to CIC is that if they don't get selected by a province for a PNP nomination or an employer or don't have very high points compared to other applicants they won't get an invitation to apply to CIC. My understanding is that if you do not get an Invitation within a year you have to re-submit your profile to the EE. So, it could take a person a long time to even get the invitation to apply to CIC if they don't score high or get a job offer or PNP nomination. I am assuming the points that people will be ranked on will be based on education, experience, English proficiency, having family in Canada and maybe a few other factors that would give a person a good chance at settling successfully in Canada.

 

[meyakanor]

The down side for people who have to go through EE before getting a chance to apply to CIC is that if they don't get selected by a province for a PNP nomination or an employer or don't have very high points compared to other applicants they won't get an invitation to apply to CIC. My understanding is that if you do not get an Invitation within a year you have to re-submit your profile to the EE. So, it could take a person a long time to even get the invitation to apply to CIC if they don't score high or get a job offer or PNP nomination. I am assuming the points that people will be ranked on will be based on education, experience, English proficiency, having family in Canada and maybe a few other factors that would give a person a good chance at settling successfully in Canada.

Yeah, I think if an applicant can already qualify for a provincial nomination, then he/she will no longer need to be ranked against other applicants within the pool, as the nomination itself would act as the invitation to apply for PR. Likewise, having a job offer would preclude you from being ranked against other applicants within the Express Entry pool.

You will receive an Invitation to Apply for permanent residence if you:

have a valid job offer from an employer in Canada (subject to the Labour Market Impact Assessment process in place at that time);
have been nominated by a province or territory; or
are among the top ranked in the pool based on your skills and experience.

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/publications/employers/express-entry-spo-sheet.asp

In that sense, applicants from first and second categories would not have to deal with waiting until they get invited and will avoid being ranked against each other within the Express Entry pool. Only those applying under FSWP, CEC, or FSTP would have to compete for the coveted ITA.

The "portion of PNP" part refers to the ability of each province to cherry pick and nominate candidates within the Express Entry pool with on-demand skills. After provincial nomination, they will then be automatically invited to apply for PR. militellovincenzo's John Doe the plumber example illustrates this point perfectly.

 

[La_LuNa]

another PNP applicant confused as you, guys...

first of all, is there ANY OFFICIAL document, statement or even just one sentence about us whose documents already reached CIO??
I mean, I'm not even sure are we (PNP applicants who already applied for PR) even allowed to create online EE profile?

I'm MPNP nominee, my application for PR reached Sydney today.. My VO has 19 months processing time for PNP, so, yes, I'm more than interested in EE.

I have nomination, diploma that can be assessed and recognized, 5+ years of experience in my occupation, ielts 8 overall score; I could get a significant number of points in EE!
but I'm so confused... is it obligatory to assess credentials for EE? (because my occupation is regulated, my province asks of me to do the assessment with the service which CIC does not recognize for PR/EE application)
is it obligatory for spouse to take language test, or is it just "a bonus" in points?

so many questions, and nowhere to get official answers

 

[nessjo]

Some good information here:

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/express-entry/grid-crs.asp

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/department/mi/express-entry.asp

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/express-entry/criteria-crs.asp

 

[sk6492]

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/express-entry/criteria-crs.asp

In the pool entry criteria they didn't mentioned any PNP program. So PNP is only worth those additional 600 points (which one could get by having a LIMA approved job offer too). Whats the point of getting a nomination then?!!?

 

[La_LuNa]

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/express-entry/criteria-crs.asp

In the pool entry criteria they didn't mentioned any PNP program. So PNP is only worth those additional 600 points (which one could get by having a LIMA approved job offer too). Whats the point of getting a nomination then?!!?

well, it's not that easy to obtain LMIA anymore.. for example, I think I would never be able to obtain one in my occupation, but I had no problem with obtaining province nomination.

tnx nessjo for links!!

 

[Mbgirlfriend]

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/department/media/notices/2014-12-01.asp#4

O.K so it looks like according to questions #8 & #9 in the link I posted says that having a PNP nomination you got on your own can be beneficial as long as you also are eligible under one of the 3 streams.

So for example people who have a year of skilled employment in Canada would apply under the CEC category then use their PNP nomination to up their points and get the invitation to apply. In fact I think if you have a PNP nomination you will defiantly get a ITA.

So the big question for people who are about to send in their PR applications to CIC with a PNP is how long it will take to get the ITA. I know it says that once you get the ITA you will have your PR within 6 months but I don't see where it says how long it will take to get ITA.

If it only takes a few weeks to get the ITA then it would be well worth it to apply to EE with the PNP