Clarification on an odd case.

[tsmvp]

Ladies and Gents,

Just have a quick question for you. Well not that quick as my case seems to be a little more complicated than most.
First of all I have been in Canada since 1999 when I came under a working permit. Years later got my PR Card as I kept renewing my working permit. So after all said and done in 2006 the whole family got the PR done. Great.
Fast forward to 2012 (October) we applied for the Citizenship. For some reason CIC always gives me hassle and forgets to mention little things. Then I have to call them explain the whole thing and of course they do not have much of a clue in my case...
Here is the deal. Once we applied in 10/2012 months later I got a letter from them saying they need more information. They sent me a form asking several things (a form that I learned is not in use anymore) regarding myself, family, kids etc. Basically proof we were in Canada. Funny thing is all that I sent when renewing the PR Card. But they asked for all again.
So I had to get from the school board a letter stating my kids were indeed enrolled for all that time, etc. Problem is that letter was only delivered to me at the end of December, after two months passed since I asked for it. Once I got all together and sent it, the next day we get a letter from CIC asking my wife to go for her citizenship test.
That is when I realized all they were asking was regarding my own application and not the kids/etc. All that information asked on the form seemed useless regarding my family as they did ask my wife to go write the test!
Of course since I came to Canada in 1999 they were asking stuff back to 1999 like passports, etc. Due to my job (CEO) I travel a LOT but easily meet the requirements. Problem is since 1999 I had like 10 passports (due to no more pages for stamps) and some of the info they asked were about companies no longer in business (i.e. the one that initially got my working permit) or business colleagues that are already DECEASED.
I called CIC and explained the situation. That only on passport pages I would have to send them 320 pages alone. Two different people on the phone gave me two different answers. One being you must send it all (excess of 500 pages in total) and another told me explain all in a letter and send only what is relevant for the 4-year/3-years in Canada timeframe requirement (what makes WAY more sense to me).
So I did all that but once I sent it, following week I go to the CIC website to check on my status and guess what? CLOSED, stating I did not send what they asked on time. GREAT.
Now wife passed the test and will probably go for the Citizenship ceremony in the next 6-8 weeks.
My kids were 17 and 13 at the time I sent all the paperwork initially and they are still listed as 'In process' on the CIC system.
My question is, are the kids UNDER my wife then? Meaning once she is granted the Citizenship the kids automatically get it as well?
In my case from what I can see I will have to start the whole damn thing again (already got my English score done to prove language proficiency) what is fine with me and pay the new fees ($400 if I am not mistaken).
My only concern is indeed the kids. Just want to make sure they fall under my wife now. Otherwise one is already over 18 what would mean all the language hassle, new application etc.
To top it off we had another kid now in Canada and he is of course Canadian and carries a Canadian Passport.
So I may soon be the only non-Canadian within the family after 15 years living here. ;D

Cheers.

CR

 

[chakrab]

Sorry about the issues.

Here's some things:
1. what you got is commonly known as RQ (residence questionnaire). it was fairly common for an applicant to get one but we are seeing less of it now. all you have to do is prove your residency in the last 4 years, not since you were in Canada. am not sure why you thought you need to provide details from 1999, but it is not the case. you just need to prove that you were in Canada for 1095 days in last 4 years before the application. any strong ties including mortgage, kids schooling, having a canadian baby, utilities' bills, phone bills, health records, etc would be ideal supporting documents. you can also ask for a CBSA report to check your entry dates in canada.

2. all applications are independent of each other. the kids' application will be processed separately than your wife. each will get citizenship based on own merit.

3. RQs are supposed to be submitted within the date mentioned or else your application will be closed. if you don't have any document by that time, write a letter along with the documentation present and explain to them why you don't have it yet. let them know you will send the documentation as soon as you have it.


i sense that you are very much stressed and you may not have understood the questionnaire letter. it happens to the best of us. i suggest you collect the documentation and apply once again.

 

[tsmvp]

Thanks for the reply.
I did understand the RQ letter clearly. Problem is such document does reference everyone else on your family (wife and kids information is asked right there on the form) making you assume you have to send their information what is clearly not needed (as my wife got her letter to take the test for example).
The whole thing about the history since 1999 came from the form itself. It clearly states that you must send documents since your first day of landing in Canada. I called CIC multiple times to confirm that and got conflicting information as I mentioned. Some agents said I had to send all information since 1999 while others agreed with me that was nonsense as all they care is the 4 years preceding your application. I have everything they need for sure (house in Canada, several cars, Canadian son, Canadian company, etc) so that should not be an issue at all. I also contacted CBSA today and they will send me the entry records so I can submit that with my new application.
If all applications are independent I am wondering why the kids still show 'In Process'. I am not 100% sure they issue the Citizenship to a minor if one of the parents do not have it. I cannot see anything that clarifies this anywhere on the CIC site. For sure that is the case for anyone over 18 but for minors I am almost certain one of the parents has to have its process finalized (meaning Citizenship granted) before the kids application is finished.

Cheers.

CR

 

[chakrab]

i have seen cases here where the kids have got citizenship but the parents got into the RQ web. Mind you, the kids don't need to go through all the loops like your wife. they may just give the kids citizenship at the same, just that your wife has to go through more steps. do realize that the kids can still stay with the parents even if they are the only citizens. the parents aren't being thrown out of the country. your little one is an example of that.

also when i said independent, i meant they don't automatically get the citizenship. however like i said, the process may be completed at the same time.

landing is a confusing term for applicants because it usually implies when you landed as a PR. hence the document "record of landing". the other term is "entry in canada" or "first entry in canada", which i believe would be 1999 in your case.

 

[rayman_m]

As your previous application is closed (but not denied) so you have nothing to worry. Whatever happened is happened..

As we all have to move on in our life leaving all unpleasant things behind, you will be just fine once you apply as fresh applicant. You already have lived in Canada physically over 1095 days in last 4 years, all you need to put all your travel dates in last four years in online residence calculator as per CBSA entry report (I believe exit dates you have in your passport stamp). Submit new application with biographical pages as per CIC requirement and as additional documents you can attach ONLY last 4 years covering period passport pages which has exit/entry stamps along with CBSA report and your house Title. As per CIC new 02-2014 application form you will need to provide work documents which is mostly T4 and NOA last four years. I don't think you will need to send any other documents at this stage (4 years passport with travel history+CBSA+NOA+House Title should be good enough to proof your residency and ties in Canada).

As for your kids application which is still shows in process. That's fine. When they applied they were minor children and they will be treated by CIC as minor no matter one child turned adult now. It is certain that they CIC have not rejected your kids application rather they perhaps separated from you and your wife file. In my opinion, since they don't need to appear any test and interview, most likely CIC will send oath letter with wife together with kids pretty soon.

 

[Goldline]

Ladies and Gents,

Just have a quick question for you. Well not that quick as my case seems to be a little more complicated than most.
First of all I have been in Canada since 1999 when I came under a working permit. Years later got my PR Card as I kept renewing my working permit. So after all said and done in 2006 the whole family got the PR done. Great.
Fast forward to 2012 (October) we applied for the Citizenship. For some reason CIC always gives me hassle and forgets to mention little things. Then I have to call them explain the whole thing and of course they do not have much of a clue in my case...
Here is the deal. Once we applied in 10/2012 months later I got a letter from them saying they need more information. They sent me a form asking several things (a form that I learned is not in use anymore) regarding myself, family, kids etc. Basically proof we were in Canada. Funny thing is all that I sent when renewing the PR Card. But they asked for all again.
So I had to get from the school board a letter stating my kids were indeed enrolled for all that time, etc. Problem is that letter was only delivered to me at the end of December, after two months passed since I asked for it. Once I got all together and sent it, the next day we get a letter from CIC asking my wife to go for her citizenship test.
That is when I realized all they were asking was regarding my own application and not the kids/etc. All that information asked on the form seemed useless regarding my family as they did ask my wife to go write the test!
Of course since I came to Canada in 1999 they were asking stuff back to 1999 like passports, etc. Due to my job (CEO) I travel a LOT but easily meet the requirements. Problem is since 1999 I had like 10 passports (due to no more pages for stamps) and some of the info they asked were about companies no longer in business (i.e. the one that initially got my working permit) or business colleagues that are already DECEASED.
I called CIC and explained the situation. That only on passport pages I would have to send them 320 pages alone. Two different people on the phone gave me two different answers. One being you must send it all (excess of 500 pages in total) and another told me explain all in a letter and send only what is relevant for the 4-year/3-years in Canada timeframe requirement (what makes WAY more sense to me).
So I did all that but once I sent it, following week I go to the CIC website to check on my status and guess what? CLOSED, stating I did not send what they asked on time. GREAT.
Now wife passed the test and will probably go for the Citizenship ceremony in the next 6-8 weeks.
My kids were 17 and 13 at the time I sent all the paperwork initially and they are still listed as 'In process' on the CIC system.
My question is, are the kids UNDER my wife then? Meaning once she is granted the Citizenship the kids automatically get it as well?
In my case from what I can see I will have to start the whole damn thing again (already got my English score done to prove language proficiency) what is fine with me and pay the new fees ($400 if I am not mistaken).
My only concern is indeed the kids. Just want to make sure they fall under my wife now. Otherwise one is already over 18 what would mean all the language hassle, new application etc.
To top it off we had another kid now in Canada and he is of course Canadian and carries a Canadian Passport.
So I may soon be the only non-Canadian within the family after 15 years living here. ;D

Cheers.

CR

If I were a Film Maker I would use this story and make a good movie and get the "CIC movie award" ;D
Now the good news is that your case is not really complicated. Yes, you need to submit a new application thus you just wasted about 18 months(since oct 2012) but ultimately you will get your citizenship. My advice is to include a cover letter with your new application and relate your story as you just did. Hopefully this will speed up the process.
Good luck.