Citizenship by descent query

[Bert07]

Hi, I am confused so am hoping someone can confirm which way this works!

My father acquired Canadian citizenship in 1965, my parents moved back to the uk in the 70's. I was born in the 80's. I applied for and received my certificate of citizenship last year, the date on it is my date of birth.

I have 2 kids, one was born in 2007. I can't work out if he also has citizenship or not? I had citizenship at the time of birth but obviously he has 2nd generation descent if that makes sense?

I tried the CIC calculator but it can't determine it.

In the grand scheme it doesn't really matter as I would need to sponsor my husband and 2nd child anyway but would be a bit easier if I could just send the citizenship stuff off for him. I don't really want to waste the fee/ send the wrong stuff!

Thoughts?

 

[Leon]

The law ruling out citizenship by descent for 2nd generation born abroad did not take effect until the spring of 2009 so any children born before that would have citizenship.

 

[Snoozin]

Hi. Can someone answer this one?

Grandmother born in Canada in 1920. She marries an American in 1950 and resides in US but stays Canadian.

Father (grandmother's son) is born in 1960's but becomes Canadian by formal application and oath in 1982 (based on Grandmother's citizenship). Father does not reside in Canada.

Daughter is born in 2010 in US.

Is daughter Canadian?

 

[Leon]

Hi. Can someone answer this one?

Grandmother born in Canada in 1920. She marries an American in 1950 and resides in US but stays Canadian.

Father (grandmother's son) is born in 1960's but becomes Canadian by formal application and oath in 1982 (based on Grandmother's citizenship). Father does not reside in Canada.

Daughter is born in 2010 in US.

Is daughter Canadian?

Short answer: No

Long answer:

The father was not born in Canada nor did he immigrate to Canada. Formal application, oath or not, he gained citizenship solely based on his mothers citizenship. That makes him first generation born abroad.

According to the new citizenship law (April 2009), 2nd generation born abroad after the date of the law is not eligible for citizenship. Because the daughter is born in 2010, she is not a citizen. Had she been born before April 2009, she would be.

If the father wishes to immigrate to Canada, he can sponsor his spouse and child for permanent residency. After moving to Canada with his child, he can apply for her citizenship right away. His spouse would however have to fulfill the citizenship residency requirements and live in Canada as a PR for 1095 days before she can apply.

 

[Snoozin]

Leon - Thanks much!

 

[Snoozin]

Just out of curiosity, I'd have to ask what could be the policy to cut citizenship ties with the child of someone who actively made application for citizenship and took an oath (versus passively becoming a citizen by operation of law - and not even knowing it or caring). It would seem that Canada's policy-makers would take note of the act of such oath and make an exception for the second generation child (of the person who made the oath) born outside of Canada. The oath is not a small act, and it can actually trigger a loss of nationality where the oath-taker (first generation) was born. Also, someone who makes an oath and his or her child are likely to have strong ties with Canada, notwithstanding their births elsewhere. The cutoff seems arbitrary, and it doesn't consider any ongoing ties (and in fact it can serve to sever such ties) with Canada. An oath of citizenship/allegiance should not be cheap.

 

[scylla]

In my opinion the oath doesn't necessarily demonstrate commitment / strong ties to Canada. It just shows that someone took the time to travel back to Canada and say a bunch of words. Wouldn't be that hard for many people to do and this would create a very easy loop-hole for people to continue to pass on citizenship without having any real ties or commitment to Canada.

If there were any exceptions granted to the second generation rule, it would make much more sense to me for these exceptions to be residency based (e.g. if the individual who was the first generation born abroad has lived in Canada for 10 or more years before the birth of the second generation abroad child, then that child is entitled to citizenship by descent).

Anyway - obviously just my thoughts.

 

[scylla]

Just to add... I know the US has some rules in place when it comes to citizenship by descent and residency.

 

[Leon]

Just out of curiosity, I'd have to ask what could be the policy to cut citizenship ties with the child of someone who actively made application for citizenship and took an oath (versus passively becoming a citizen by operation of law - and not even knowing it or caring). It would seem that Canada's policy-makers would take note of the act of such oath and make an exception for the second generation child (of the person who made the oath) born outside of Canada. The oath is not a small act, and it can actually trigger a loss of nationality where the oath-taker (first generation) was born. Also, someone who makes an oath and his or her child are likely to have strong ties with Canada, notwithstanding their births elsewhere. The cutoff seems arbitrary, and it doesn't consider any ongoing ties (and in fact it can serve to sever such ties) with Canada. An oath of citizenship/allegiance should not be cheap.

The policy is to keep the value of Canadian citizenship by not allowing people to pass it on from generation to generation without any of them ever bothering to live in Canada.

Keep in mind that if the father wants to live in Canada, he can sponsor his child and spouse for PR and after moving to Canada he can apply for citizenship for his child right away. His child will then be Canadian by immigration and will be able to pass on citizenship to her children in the future, no matter where they are born.

Like scylla said, if it was turned around and he had grown up and lived in Canada and now wanted to get US citizenship for his Canadian born child, he would have to show that he had lived in the US for at least 5 years.