Chinese and TRV

[wildwilly]

My girlfriend was recently denied a TRV as the visa officer did not feel that she is "well established" and/or "have strong enough ties" to motivate her departure from Canada upon the end of her authorized stay.

I had invited her to visit me in Canada back in October when I was in China to see her. I returned to Canada in mid October and we both began to research what was required for her to obtain a TRV. She had told me that it would be difficult for her and I assured her that it would not be a problem because Canada was a country that welcomed people from all over the world. WAS I IN FOR A SURPRISE!

She first obtained a Chinese passport by the end of October and then we began the process of completing the forms and collecting all the necessary documents. By mid November we had felt that we were now prepared to submit the application.

I returned to China once again and we travelled to Beijing and organized all the documents, next we went to the Visa Application Center where we had the necessary documents translated and submitted the application. I was very confident that we had shown without a doubt that she would indeed return to China.

We submitted the following; (On Tue morning)

1. Application form (Duplicate with 4 regulation photo's)
2. Family composition, employment and education history
3. Copy of her "Huko" book
4. Letter of Employment, granting leave
5. Her son's birth certificate (now 9 years old)
6. Her bank statement for 3 months (savings in excess of 70 000 yuan)
7. Official record of her divorce (7 years ago)
8. Property deed (Her home purchased for 198 000 yuan 14 months ago - paid in full and registered to her)
9. Criminal record showing NO crime ever comitted
10. Several pictures of her home showing contents and several pictures of us in China
11. Her Chinese passport, issued Oct 2008 and valid for 10 years
12. Official document showing that she receives govt pension of 389 yuan/month for 4 years from a previous job
13. Official document showing that she receives govt benefits for 15 years from same previous job
14. Her life insurance policy
15. My letter of invatation
16. My T4 for 2007
17. My household residence (my children on a 50% basis)
18. 4 months of my bank statements
19. My incorporation papers for my Ltd company (As I'm self employed)
20. Copy of my previous Chinese single entry visa
21. Copy of my current Chinese multi entry visa
22. 100 pages of internet correspondance between us
23. Copies of flight tickets/boarding passes of us travelling together within China
24. Copies of my drivers licence and birth certificate
25. Copies of post marked packages sent by both of us

The following Sat we received the courier package from the embassy, NO TRV and the refusal letter was no help in any way. It was not specific on the reason why, it would be helpful to know the specific reason(s) for a new application in the future.

I sent several e-mails to the embassy requesting a specific reason(s) and what CIC defines as "well establised" and "strong ties", well I only received a general response that did not answer anything. I did appreciate the fact that they responded to my e-mails quickly but dissapointed that my questions were not answered.

They only suggest reapplying should her circumstance change significantly and we are both wondering what more could possibly change for her? How could she be more established? How could she have stronger ties? Based on the response from the embassy, there is no hope of her ever obtaining a TRV.

She is 36 and lived in China her whole life
She has a 9 year old son
She has her own home
She has very significant savings by Chinese standards
She has parents, 1 brother, 2 sisters, 2 nephews and a niece in her home town
She has shown long and steady employment history
She has govt pension and benefits only valid if she lives in China
She has university education (Chemistry and Graphic Design)

I just do not understand how CIC could expect her to have "stronger ties" or be "more established" ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?




I had clearly stated in my "Letter of Invitation" that she would spend the Xmas holidays and New Year with me and my family in Canada, then we would both return to celebrate the Chinese Spring Festival and New Year at the end of Jan. Also, I clearly stated that I would purchase a round trip ticket for her with medical insurance and provide all living expenses during her stay.

I was very disappointed not to mention how she felt, left wondering what was wrong with her that Canada would refuse to let her visit here. I was especially embarrased when her parents asked why I could visit China so easily and it was so difficult for her to visit Canada, I had no answer for them.

I just arrived back in Canada this weekend and I will be contacting an immigration consultant this week. I also wonder if she should fill out a release form grantng me permission to obtain the CAIPS notes made by the CIC officer, maybe this would provide someting more specific. I have no intentions of letting this go, I do not believe the the application was given fair consideration or all the information reviewed completely. I feel that common sense would tell anyone that she would indeed return home.

After receiving the refusal on Sat, I wanted to fly to Beijing on Sun and be at the embassy first thing Mon morning, I was not very happy but she convinced me otherwise, saying I would only get into trouble. Probably a good thing I didn't go, my mood was not good!!!

The ironic thing in all this, she was very hesitant in agreeing to come visit Canada, not wanting to be so far from her family. Only after she discussed this a great deal with her mother, did she feel it would be OK to come visit Canada. I even provided her mother with copies of my passport, birth certificate, drivers licence and phone number so she would feel assured.

Sorry for the long post, this is all new to me and I just do not know what to do next, if anyone can help it would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Bill

 

[frolic]

You likely provided them yourself with the proof that she might have an interest to stay in Canada. She is your girlfriend, many letters and packages and even visits by you, obviously getting serious and maybe she would come here, get married, and never leave. Unfortunately she is being compared to other visitors who have applied and been granted a TRV and have stayed and they found some similarities between them and her. And since Canada is not interested in "Fiancee" type visas they do not allow people to come who fit that possible description it seems.

Basically you can tell her and her parents that people who got visas from China and then overstayed are the ones that ruined it for you. It is a harsh reality that many people try to get into Canada any way they can.

And so you know my girlfriend was denied a TRV last year as well so I know how you are feeling.

The consultant will probably tell you that unless there are big changes on her application that she will be denied again. And most likely tell you that getting married there and then applying for a Permanent visa is probably the only way she can come to Canada.

Good luck and sorry to hear your difficulties.

 

[wildwilly]

Thanks for the reply frolic,

Actually, in the invitation letter, I stated she was a good friend. We only submitted one copy each of post marked packages. I had only visited China once prior to this. Actually just received a call from the immigration consultant, told me it is very difficult for Chinese people to obtain a TRV and getting married and sponsoring her may be a better route. Most likely an option in the future.

Just pretty pathetic that she is denied a TRV because CIC is worried she will not leave, what do the expect if she is my wife? Really seems backwards to me. Just very discouraging that she is unable to visit my home.

Also asked the consultant if it would look bad on the file if we request the CAIPS notes? He said it would not effect anything in the future and that it would definately give more detail on the refusal. She will now submit an authorization form that grants me access to these notes from here in Canada. I'm very interested in seeing them.

I feel bad because for sometime now I have been telling her it would be no problem for her to visit Canada, I sure got a big wake up call ! ! ! Needless to say, I'm not too impressed with CIC right now, don't get me wrong, I'm happy that Canada is careful about who comes here, but I just cannot believe that based on all the information we provided, she was denied.

Once again, thanks for your response and if anyone else has any suggestions or similar experiences please let me know.

Thanks,
Bill

 

[steaky]

Hi,

I think you should send a copy of the return airplane tickets to CIC for proof that your girl friend would eventually returning China. I have a friend applied business visa and successfully coming China. As you have a Ltd company, I wondered if you can send her this way.


Steaky.

 

[steaky]

Sorry my mistake. It should be: My friend applied business visa and successfully coming to Vancouver, BC.

Steaky.

 

[frolic]

It is definitely a tricky thing that you have to manage to get a TRV to Canada. There are many things they will look at when considering the application.

They look at the reasons for the trip and are they well thought out or do they seem frivolous?
They look at ties to home and reasons and ability to return home.
Is the length of the trip plausable for the stated reason?
Who invited the person? ie: their ties to Canada. For instance you put "good friend" and I am sure they thought girlfriend anyway. Single women from China probably do not travel alone to Canada often as well...making your application maybe a little more suspect.

If you want to read their actual manual they use for it go to this link. (Warning PDF) Section 9 is where they talk about what they consider.
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/manuals/op/op11e.pdf

In our case, my girlfriend from Russia, who has a son, applied to visit and I wrote a simple invite letter. Her son was staying home with his grandmother because he was in school at the time. We also showed proof of a return ticket as well. You would think with a job and son at home and return ticket would be enough. But she was denied. I was naive like you as well thinking it was simple.

So all we did is we continued our relationship and I was always the one to travel there. Now we are married and have applied for her to get permanent residence and my sponorship was approved. We then applied for a temp visa and I included a much more informative invite letter. Stating that we had a PR application in, reasons for the visit, the fact that she had to return back to our son and also to wait for communications from the Embassy in Russia etc etc. Basically I tried to address every concern they might have. So with that extra information and because Canada allows dual-intent she was allowed a visa this time.

So you asked...what if she was your wife...they would expect you to have applied for a permanent residence for her and to get sponsorship approval and then you may apply for her to visit while that processing happens. She would have more compelling reasons to visit, and they know she HAS to return to China to provide her passport to the embassy there for the permanent visa so they KNOW she will return.

 

[BCguy]

That is correct,Speaking from a viewpoint of having interceded for many people coming to our office asking for help from my boss,Since you are her boyfriend,She will almost certainly NOT get a TRV,either get into a common law relationship or marraige with her or accept that you will have to be visiting her in China

 

[wildwilly]

I really appereciate the responses from everyone. I find every little bit very helpful.

I recently spoke with another immigration consultant (20 yrs exp as an immigration judge), she suggested obtaining the CAPIS notes so that we may know more specific the reason(s) she was denied. Also, she suggested that we both find an approved laweyer in Beijing that can practice Canadian law, and we both give sworn statements that she will abide by the conditions of her TRV and apply again with the statements. Currently in the process of exploring this possibility. Still very anxiuos to see the CAPIS notes as well.

I see how it may be easier to sponsor her for PR as my wife, but to me it would make sense that she make at least one visit to Canada, meet my family and see what life in Canada is like before we possibly made the commitment of marriage.

I plan to be back in China at the end of Jan for Spring Festival, we may apply once again after we have had an opportunity to review the CAPIS notes, address any concerns from those notes and obtain sworn statements from a lawyer.

In the first application, she was applying to come here from the end of Nov to the end of Jan. This time, I will be returning to Canada the first week of Feb and she has a lot of contract work to begin in March, so we will only be requesting approximately a 3 week visit this time. I am going to tell her to also get a letter from the company she will contract for stating she has this work in March.

We will definately have significantly more paper work this time and I plan to organize it very well. I just hope that it is reviewed completely, I have a feeling that maybe the first application was not reviewed completely.

I will post any new developements in our situation, maybe it will be helpful to someone now or in the future. Too bad so many abuse the system, making it so difficult for the honest ones to come here.

Thanks,
Bill

P.S. Still not going to say we are bf/gf, from what I read it will be an automatic refusal regarless of any other paper work. I know CIC may assume we are, but gonna stick with the "good friend" relationship.

 

[frolic]

A lie by omission is still a lie. And might make them suspect your intentions more. Not saying it's the right or wrong way...just playing devils advocate and giving you the other viewpoint on that.

Good luck!

 

[helpmeplease1]

My girlfriend was recently denied a TRV as the visa officer did not feel that she is "well established" and/or "have strong enough ties" to motivate her departure from Canada upon the end of her authorized stay.

I had invited her to visit me in Canada back in October when I was in China to see her. I returned to Canada in mid October and we both began to research what was required for her to obtain a TRV. She had told me that it would be difficult for her and I assured her that it would not be a problem because Canada was a country that welcomed people from all over the world. WAS I IN FOR A SURPRISE!

She first obtained a Chinese passport by the end of October and then we began the process of completing the forms and collecting all the necessary documents. By mid November we had felt that we were now prepared to submit the application.

I returned to China once again and we travelled to Beijing and organized all the documents, next we went to the Visa Application Center where we had the necessary documents translated and submitted the application. I was very confident that we had shown without a doubt that she would indeed return to China.

We submitted the following; (On Tue morning)

1. Application form (Duplicate with 4 regulation photo's)
2. Family composition, employment and education history
3. Copy of her "Huko" book
4. Letter of Employment, granting leave
5. Her son's birth certificate (now 9 years old)
6. Her bank statement for 3 months (savings in excess of 70 000 yuan)
7. Official record of her divorce (7 years ago)
8. Property deed (Her home purchased for 198 000 yuan 14 months ago - paid in full and registered to her)
9. Criminal record showing NO crime ever comitted
10. Several pictures of her home showing contents and several pictures of us in China
11. Her Chinese passport, issued Oct 2008 and valid for 10 years
12. Official document showing that she receives govt pension of 389 yuan/month for 4 years from a previous job
13. Official document showing that she receives govt benefits for 15 years from same previous job
14. Her life insurance policy
15. My letter of invatation
16. My T4 for 2007
17. My household residence (my children on a 50% basis)
18. 4 months of my bank statements
19. My incorporation papers for my Ltd company (As I'm self employed)
20. Copy of my previous Chinese single entry visa
21. Copy of my current Chinese multi entry visa
22. 100 pages of internet correspondance between us
23. Copies of flight tickets/boarding passes of us travelling together within China
24. Copies of my drivers licence and birth certificate
25. Copies of post marked packages sent by both of us

The following Sat we received the courier package from the embassy, NO TRV and the refusal letter was no help in any way. It was not specific on the reason why, it would be helpful to know the specific reason(s) for a new application in the future.

I sent several e-mails to the embassy requesting a specific reason(s) and what CIC defines as "well establised" and "strong ties", well I only received a general response that did not answer anything. I did appreciate the fact that they responded to my e-mails quickly but dissapointed that my questions were not answered.

They only suggest reapplying should her circumstance change significantly and we are both wondering what more could possibly change for her? How could she be more established? How could she have stronger ties? Based on the response from the embassy, there is no hope of her ever obtaining a TRV.

She is 36 and lived in China her whole life
She has a 9 year old son
She has her own home
She has very significant savings by Chinese standards
She has parents, 1 brother, 2 sisters, 2 nephews and a niece in her home town
She has shown long and steady employment history
She has govt pension and benefits only valid if she lives in China
She has university education (Chemistry and Graphic Design)

I just do not understand how CIC could expect her to have "stronger ties" or be "more established" ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?




I had clearly stated in my "Letter of Invitation" that she would spend the Xmas holidays and New Year with me and my family in Canada, then we would both return to celebrate the Chinese Spring Festival and New Year at the end of Jan. Also, I clearly stated that I would purchase a round trip ticket for her with medical insurance and provide all living expenses during her stay.

I was very disappointed not to mention how she felt, left wondering what was wrong with her that Canada would refuse to let her visit here. I was especially embarrased when her parents asked why I could visit China so easily and it was so difficult for her to visit Canada, I had no answer for them.

I just arrived back in Canada this weekend and I will be contacting an immigration consultant this week. I also wonder if she should fill out a release form grantng me permission to obtain the CAIPS notes made by the CIC officer, maybe this would provide someting more specific. I have no intentions of letting this go, I do not believe the the application was given fair consideration or all the information reviewed completely. I feel that common sense would tell anyone that she would indeed return home.

After receiving the refusal on Sat, I wanted to fly to Beijing on Sun and be at the embassy first thing Mon morning, I was not very happy but she convinced me otherwise, saying I would only get into trouble. Probably a good thing I didn't go, my mood was not good!!!

The ironic thing in all this, she was very hesitant in agreeing to come visit Canada, not wanting to be so far from her family. Only after she discussed this a great deal with her mother, did she feel it would be OK to come visit Canada. I even provided her mother with copies of my passport, birth certificate, drivers licence and phone number so she would feel assured.

Sorry for the long post, this is all new to me and I just do not know what to do next, if anyone can help it would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Bill

I know this post is 3 years old, but have you had any luck since?? I am in a similar situation now and would love any insight that you have

 

[steaky]

1. You don't need her "Huko" book
2. Alternatively, you can provide a bank letter showing your financial status