CEC Application HELP - Is project-based full-time contract work qualified?

[edwin88]

Howdy all,

I need help regarding my CEC application. I had graduated from a 4 years Bachelor program in Engineering in April 2009 from UBC, Canada. Upon graduation up to today, I have accumulated more than one year work (37.5 hrs per week) experience within the 2 years required preceding the CEC application. I am currently still working the same contract-based job. Also, my work type is under NOC Skill Level A. However, I am not sure whether my work condition is qualified for CEC. My work condition is that I am working for a Professional Engineer who has his own consulting limited company and I am hired as his assistant engineer on a contract project based. I count my working hours and invoice him every bi-weekly and get paid by him with cheques. Due to this, I do not receive any T4 slip from him (I have asked my boss about it and he said I am a contract worker and not an employee and thus no T4). Am I considered as self-employed? If yes, am I still qualified for the CEC for my Permanent Residence application with my current work condition?

Would I be able to submit photocopies of pay cheques and invoices instead of T4 slip to prove the hours worked? Also, my current boss is willing to help me with an employment reference letter as per required in the CEC application.

Please help. Thank you very much in advance.


Edwin

 

[PMM]

Hi

Howdy all,

I need help regarding my CEC application. I had graduated from a 4 years Bachelor program in Engineering in April 2009 from UBC, Canada. Upon graduation up to today, I have accumulated more than one year work (37.5 hrs per week) experience within the 2 years required preceding the CEC application. I am currently still working the same contract-based job. Also, my work type is under NOC Skill Level A. However, I am not sure whether my work condition is qualified for CEC. My work condition is that I am working for a Professional Engineer who has his own consulting limited company and I am hired as his assistant engineer on a contract project based. I count my working hours and invoice him every bi-weekly and get paid by him with cheques. Due to this, I do not receive any T4 slip from him (I have asked my boss about it and he said I am a contract worker and not an employee and thus no T4). Am I considered as self-employed? If yes, am I still qualified for the CEC for my Permanent Residence application with my current work condition?

Would I be able to submit photocopies of pay cheques and invoices instead of T4 slip to prove the hours worked? Also, my current boss is willing to help me with an employment reference letter as per required in the CEC application.

Please help. Thank you very much in advance.


Edwin

Sounds to me that you are contractor/self employed, which work doesn't count for CEC.

 

[jes_ON]

Edwin, sorry, agree that your employment arrangement is "self-employed" and therefore not eligible under CEC.

You should try to find a new position where you care classified as an employee, to start working towards the experience requirement...

or, check here and see if your occupation is on "the list" - but do note that this list is likely to change July 1...
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/immigrate/skilled/apply-who-instructions.asp#list

 

[edwin88]

Hi PMM and Jes,

Thanks for your replies. I really appreciate it.

I have called in to the CIC Call Centre and asked about my situation and she replied that she could not find any information on her side saying that self-employment is not eligible for the CEC and went on advising me that the only way to find out is to apply and see whether I will be eligible and obtain it. She further recommended me to send all my tax notice of assessment and photocopies of pay cheques and invoices in place of T4 for the CEC application.

At the same time, I have emailed my enquiry to the Buffalo office and they replied that they are not able to answer my questions as a pre-assessment unless if I have submitted my application to them.

I have tried doing extensive research about this self-employment situation and found that the information given are sometimes ambiguous. I have read the CIC webpage repetitively to confirm my eligibility and found that self-employment is not eligible only for those who are "Temporary Foreign Worker" and this fact is not reflected for the "Graduates" who have graduated from a Canadian University. These are shown on the "Experience Requirements" tables on the CEC application guide on CIC website. Thus, I wonder whether it is supposed to be self-understood that the exclusion of self-employment is implied for Graduates as well.

My Post Graduate Work Permit is expiring in roughly one year from now and finding another full-time job now would not allow me to accumulate one full year of work experience. In addition, by then, I would not be qualified for PNP either since PNP requires a full-time job offer within two years after graduation whereby I am one month away from two years after graduation.

Jes, thanks for the info on the Federal Skilled Worker program, but there is no engineering job posted on the list of jobs they are looking for.

I am at my wit's end and hope that there should be some way or alternative for my PR application. Do you guys think I should just try and apply in expense of the non-refundable fees?

Thanks in advance.

 

[PMM]

Hi

Hi PMM and Jes,

Thanks for your replies. I really appreciate it.

I have called in to the CIC Call Centre and asked about my situation and she replied that she could not find any information on her side saying that self-employment is not eligible for the CEC and went on advising me that the only way to find out is to apply and see whether I will be eligible and obtain it. She further recommended me to send all my tax notice of assessment and photocopies of pay cheques and invoices in place of T4 for the CEC application.

At the same time, I have emailed my enquiry to the Buffalo office and they replied that they are not able to answer my questions as a pre-assessment unless if I have submitted my application to them.

I have tried doing extensive research about this self-employment situation and found that the information given are sometimes ambiguous. I have read the CIC webpage repetitively to confirm my eligibility and found that self-employment is not eligible only for those who are "Temporary Foreign Worker" and this fact is not reflected for the "Graduates" who have graduated from a Canadian University. These are shown on the "Experience Requirements" tables on the CEC application guide on CIC website. Thus, I wonder whether it is supposed to be self-understood that the exclusion of self-employment is implied for Graduates as well.

My Post Graduate Work Permit is expiring in roughly one year from now and finding another full-time job now would not allow me to accumulate one full year of work experience. In addition, by then, I would not be qualified for PNP either since PNP requires a full-time job offer within two years after graduation whereby I am one month away from two years after graduation.

Jes, thanks for the info on the Federal Skilled Worker program, but there is no engineering job posted on the list of jobs they are looking for.

I am at my wit's end and hope that there should be some way or alternative for my PR application. Do you guys think I should just try and apply in expense of the non-refundable fees?

Thanks in advance.

To paraphrase, a work permit is a work permit by any other name. A PGWP is just a work permit for Post Grads. So, as you have read self-employment is not counted. Another example of not well trained Call Centre employees.

 

[flag2009]

If i were you, i will apply and try my luck, though it seems that you are self-employed and not eligible. As that is going on, try looking for a permanent job so you can apply for LMO and get extension of work permit, and can then apply for CEC after one year, or FSW as a worker with permanent job.

 

[jes_ON]

I have called in to the CIC Call Centre and asked about my situation and she replied that she could not find any information on her side saying that self-employment is not eligible for the CEC and went on advising me that the only way to find out is to apply and see whether I will be eligible and obtain it.

UNBELIEVABLY BAD advice - remarkable incompetence. It is NOT the only way to find out, you READ the information that CIC provides.

Look, it does not get any more plain than this - p. 8 of the instruction guide:
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/pdf/kits/guides/5609E.PDF

"Any periods of self-employment or unauthorized work cannot be included when calculating the period of work experience."


At the same time, I have emailed my enquiry to the Buffalo office and they replied that they are not able to answer my questions as a pre-assessment unless if I have submitted my application to them.

Buffalo will not answer.

I have tried doing extensive research about this self-employment situation and found that the information given are sometimes ambiguous.

If you have not read the application guide, there's no point to "research."

I am at my wit's end and hope that there should be some way or alternative for my PR application. Do you guys think I should just try and apply in expense of the non-refundable fees?


I have seen desperation make people unable to comprehend the rules, and then are devastated and angry and confused when their application is rejected.

I realize that this distressing news, and that it doesn't seem fair - no one here would disagree that it's unfair. But the rules are plain as day...

I won't advise you to waste your time and money, and I have already given my suggestions. It is a set-back, but not a total loss. Most of us here have run into a bureaucratic road block or two, had set-backs, I'm not home free yet. But you can find a way around this one - You have time to find a new job, and you can apply for an extension when your PGWP expires. Also read all the info on the PNP and FSW programs, you may find a way through those programs.

 

[smartcanuck]

Edwin: You can apply under CEC class.

"Any periods of self-employment or unauthorized work cannot be included when calculating the period of work experience." does not apply to your situation at all.

This particular condition is only applicable for TFW applying under CEC class and is not applicable to work experience of graduates. My suggestion do apply as soon as possible but do provide as much information as possible to show that you meet the minimum one year job requirement.

Good luck

 

[edwin88]

Thanks smartcanuck for the reply.. but are u sure i'm eligible for CEC with my situation? Have u or someone whom u know has succeeded in getting the PR with self-employed work experience as a graduate before? Because so far, I have tried asking around including an immigration lawyer and all replies have been negative. Hope you can advice further?

Thanks!

 

[smartcanuck]

Edwin:

Please do read the guide 5609 for CEC applicants very carefully. Read page 8-9 again again. Work experience gained as self-employed does not count if you are TFW but it does count for graduates.

UPDATE: Self-employment is NOT defined in the regulations. Revenue Canada decides depending on the work condition if a work to be considered self-employment. The following are few things considered while deciding about employment status:

Your location of work, do you work from home or work at a place provided to you by employer or contracting person
who sets your working hours?
who has provided the equipment, if any, required to do your work?
are you paid regularly and how you are paid?

Even if you do not get T4, you work may be considered as employed and you work experience counted toward full-time employment required for CEC.

 

[edwin88]

Hey smartcanuck,

Thanks for the update. I work from home and I count the hours worked on each project and invoiced the boss that I'm working for every 2 weeks. I use my own equipments (computer, etc which eventually becomes my tax deductible work expenses under my tax filing). I get paid biweekly by issuing invoices to my boss and in return, he gives me cheques or on rare occasion, by wire transfer from his account. I do not get any T4.

Thus, any advice on my eligibility for CEC given with my work conditions stated? Thanks very much.

 

[smartcanuck]

Your work experience will be classified as self-employed based on the information you have provided regarding your work conditions. In this situation unfortunately your work experience is not eligible for CEC.

The guide about CEC has confusing information, however, the relevant regulation clearly states that self-employment cannot be counted towards experience.

Finding new job or arranged employment which does not need LMO and then apply is most probably your better option.

Good luck

 

[varlien]

Hi Edwin, I feel like i'm in the same boat as you. Hoping to apply for the CEC under graduate sometime soon. What did you end up doing? Did you get the PR?

 

[ethels]

OP 25: CANADIAN EXPERIENCE CLASS MANUAL
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/manuals/op/op25-eng.pdf


9.11 WORK EXPERIENCE (Page 18)

For the Temporary Foreign Worker Stream, the applicant must have 24 months of fulltime equivalent Canadian skilled-work experience at NOC 0, A or B acquired in Canada,
within the 36 months preceding the date their application is made.
For the Post-Graduation Stream, the applicant must have obtained 12 months of fulltime equivalent Canadian skilled-work experience within the 24 months preceding the
date of application [R87.1(2)(a)(i)-(ii)]. This experience must be acquired after they have
completed the required program of study and obtained a Canadian educational
credential. (Work performed under the Off-Campus Work Permit Program or on a co-op
work term does not count).
The applicant does not have to be employed at the time of application, but they must
have temporary status during the period of work experience [R87.1(3)(b)].
Any periods of self-employment or unauthorized work will not be included in calculating
the period of work experience [R87.1(3)(b)

Self-employment / contract work will NOT count towards as qualifying experience. This is the definite answer and can be easily found in the manual