Catch 22 - London Office much compressed processing times

[Ti-coune]

Hi everyone,

I am in the process of sponsoring my husband via the Out of Canada family class and I am trying to get answers from all possible sources.

We need the PR to be effective in September 2017 as this is our planning timeline given that my husband is on a major project with the British Government and not free until then. So we don't need or want the PR before September 2015. Obviously, we want to do all the logistics (UK house sale, sorting out furniture move, etc) and physically move together to Canada.

We were going to wait until late 2016 to start the immigration process but to our surprise found out in February 2015 that the London Office processing times had gone from 12 months or so when we last checked in 2014 to an astonishingly high 29 months (+ 2 months in Canada sponsor vetting)! This triggered a frenzy of activities such as assembling our application, doing the £500 medical in London, and submitting our file in May 2015. Doing the math of the Canada + London Office 31 month processing actually made us eligible to receive the PR visa approval in Dec 2017 so we figured we had shaved it a bit close.

To our dismay, 6 months into the process my husband received an email from the IO saying "Your sponsor indicated an intention to resume residency in Canada in September 2017. Given that I foresee that the finalization of your application will take place well before September 2017, I am not satisfied that your sponsor indeed intends to resume residency in Canada as soon as you are granted a PR visa".

Clearly the London Office processing times seem to have compressed dramatically, by probably a good 20 months.

So my questions are:

1. If my husband was in fact to receive his PR visa in say, early 2016 - which would have made the London Office processing time 20 months shorter than the advertised 29 months - must I then immediately resume residency in Canada as the IO seems to suggest? I am certainly not ready to do that.

2. How should we answer the query of the IO? Our inclination is to reply the simple truth, that is that I as a sponsor am only able to resume residency in Canada with my husband at the same date as originally planned, that is September 2017. We would add that our application was submitted in good faith based on the published London Office processing times. If the London Office compresses its processing times and a PR visa is issued before September 2017, then we would gladly take it but I, as a sponsor, cannot go back to Canada before September 2017. Doing so would potentially split up the family in a damaging way.

3. Essentially, must I as a sponsor take up residency "as soon as" as my husbands "lands" in Canada to activate his COPR?

4. What should we do if the London Office surprises us by issuing a COPR 3, 6, 12 or, haven forbid, 20 months earlier than their posted processing times? Are we stuck in taking it? What are our options?

Any help would be immensely appreciated.

Coming home.

 

[MilesAway]

If you tell them the truth, they will most likely refuse the application and tell you to reapply when you are actually ready to move to Canada.
As a Canadian residing abroad, you need to prove that you will move to Canada once your spouse's PR has been issued, and you are not ready to do that.

The London VO has never taken 2 years to issue PRs. The times shot up because they took over the files from Islamabad that had already been sitting there for 2-3 years.

There was a couple on here who got the COPR while the sponsor while enrolled in a Master's program abroad. The border officer refused their landing and told them to reapply when they were prepared to move.

 

[Ti-coune]

Hi Miles Away,

Please don't say that I am not ready to move to Canada once my spouse gets his PR as it may mislead other moderators. My text above clearly states that I am ready to do so.

I note that you suggest that my application would most likely be refused. Is this from your own gut feeling or is it informed by a reference to the Immigration and Refugee Protection Regulations (IRPR)? I mean under what basis (and there are precise ones in the IRPR) would an IO deem a sponsor inadmissible on the grounds that she followed the application submission timings as suggested by the CIC website?

Lastly, I note that you applied last year and that it took 9 months or so to get your PR. How did you know when to submit your application, presuming that you had in mind to be in Canada at a certain date in the future or were you open to taking any date?

 

[MilesAway]

My reply was based on what I have seen with other members in your situation. There have been instances where people have been refused. As well, there is a particular section of the manuals that specifies who is eligible to sponsor. For Canadians abroad, it clearly indicates that the sponsor must show intent to move to Canada.

Your message did not clearly state that you are ready, as you said: "but I, as a sponsor, cannot go back to Canada before September 2017.", and " must I then immediately resume residency in Canada as the IO seems to suggest? I am certainly not ready to do that.". The moderators on this forum have no tie to CIC and have no impact on your application.

My work contract abroad was finishing at the end of May 2015. I knew that Warsaw generally took 7-10 months, so I applied in September 2014. The posted time was 12 months I believe, but as mentioned on the CIC site, they are not average times. We are now back in her home country after spending the summer in Canada. I gave my notice at work, and we were there, but my mother-in-law's health was deteriorating, so we came back. My work hired me back, and now we are dealing with the estate laws following her passing a few months ago.

 

[taffy7]

When you Pr is granted they will give you a certain amount of time to land.In that time you could land and return to the U.k but as miles said if you land and the immigration officer doesn't think you are both ready to make Canada your home then they could refuse PR. Join us on the London outland thread. There you will see the time lines of application on Andrew-Brit spreadsheet.

 

[Aquakitty]

Please don't say that I am not ready to move to Canada once my spouse gets his PR as it may mislead other moderators. My text above clearly states that I am ready to do so.

You wrote you aren't ready multiple times:

I am certainly not ready to do that.

I, as a sponsor, cannot go back to Canada before September 2017. Doing so would potentially split up the family in a damaging way.

Also, you seem to insinuate your husband can go, but you cant? Yet he is the one under contract? Regardless they are concerned about both of you as a couple returning.

Unfortunately the times listed on CIC are 80% times. This means that 80% of applications are approved EARLIER than this time. Also, the times are inflated due to Pakistani cases being diverted to the London office. Visa-exempt countries processed in London would only be that long if they required an interview, and this is very rare.

Miles/Taffy is correct, you won't get approved unless you prove you intend to return within a reasonable time. They will simply reject you and tell you to apply again when you are closer to the time you can return.

You could lie and give them the usual proof of returning such as job searches, looking for a home, letters from family etc. and then land and go back to UK for his contract, but that's a risk.

 

[Rob_TO]

I note that you suggest that my application would most likely be refused. Is this from your own gut feeling or is it informed by a reference to the Immigration and Refugee Protection Regulations (IRPR)?

Umm the visa office already sent you an email expressing concern over the intent to return to Canada. This is basically saying they are going to reject your application, unless you can provide further proof to counter what they are saying. So they are telling you if you don't submit proof that you the sponsor intends to return to Canada within an appropriator time (I would guess within 1 year) they will refuse the app.

Unfortunately the times posted on the CIC site for outland apps are almost completely useless. As mentioned above they are 80% processing times and not actual or even average times. And for London, they also include apps from Pakistan citizens which were all routed to London which caused the 80% times to sky rocket. A UK citizen should expect their PR app through London VO to be processed in 1 year more or less.

Your best bet here may be to simply withdraw your current app, and re-apply closer to late 2016 like you had in your original plan, which would target his PR being approved in late 2017.

 

[Ti-coune]

I guess partaking in this forum makes one very humble! ;D
I must admit that I did a few miscalculations, not the least of which as Rob_TO suggests, to have taken the CIC processing times as gospel.
Miles Away, it was fortunate that you knew that Warsaw only actually took 7-10 months processing: I guess the various London office spreadsheets out there will help me hoist in what you are all saying: that London is in effect about 7 to 10 months which I what I am experiencing now with the IO knocking at our door.
So true Aquakitty, stretching the truth saying that I have returned to CA while actually living in the UK would be entirely stupid; so no intention of doing that!
Best way forward is probably to heed Rob_TO advice, and say goodbye to the approx. $2500 expended so far and re-apply in early 2017.
Regarding CIC’s twisted logic of tucking in small print their convoluted “80% processing times and not actual or even average times”, I think CIC’s motto should be “Why keep everything so simple when it is so easy to complicate everything”!
Thanks everyone. All the best.

 

[canuck_in_uk]

Best way forward is probably to heed Rob_TO advice, and say goodbye to the approx. $2500 expended so far and re-apply in early 2017.
Regarding CIC’s twisted logic of tucking in small print their convoluted “80% processing times and not actual or even average times”, I think CIC’s motto should be “Why keep everything so simple when it is so easy to complicate everything”!

How have you spent $2500? I sponsored my partner while in the UK and spent around $1600-$1700, including the medical. If you do withdraw, they will refund the RPRF.

As for the processing times, the "80%" part isn't tucked away in small print. It is the second sentence at the very top of the page. The problem is that most people don't bother to read that and simply skip straight through to the times assuming that they are averages.

 

[andrew-brit]

You signed up to British Expats and posted the exact same thing, and you are being told the exact same thing too. Just because you are not hearing what you want to hear does not mean the answer will change. You should only apply for PR when you are ready to emigrate to Canada.

 

[Ti-coune]

Canuk_in_uk: My $2500 estimate included: medical in London and associated travel costs ($1000 + $100), Immigration Application Fees ($1040),a Police check ($100), FedEx costs to Mississauga ($ 80) and a good $70 in photos for the two of us, photocopies and other sundries. This amounts to $2390, so in the ballpark. Thanks for reminding me that the RPRF ($490) will be refunded when I withdraw my application; I had forgotten about this. Then my costs will be $1900 which is roughly what you had spent.

AndrewBrit: Oups, that felt like a little torpedo crossing the bow! Nothing wrong with posting on two separate forum with different websites, something very different from posting a “double post” on the same forum. I have gleaned much insight and actually many additional golden nuggets from asking this question on another separate website. Answers differ widely: some suggest I withdraw the application while others recommend just the opposite; that is to let it run. Clearly users from all sources have different perspectives and do not represent a unified front, which is quite normal as they argue the points from different perspectives. And I really welcome that.

A quick question please as it may inform my re-application in 2017: I note in your stats posted on the left that you had your medical done on 26 Aug 14 and below a comment that says “extended until 19 Nov 16”. Was this your medical that was extended or was it something else? Thanks.

 

[wowsers]

This is just a suggestion which you will need to check carefully against the facts which you know and we do not: for example whether you have children (which would complicate any new plan), what your financial circumstances are, what exactly you told CIC in your application form as sponsor, and what inconveniences you are prepared to undergo in order to proceed with your application. My tentative suggestion is that you write to the VO in London (via a case specific query) and tell the truth about the mistake you made when you applied ie that you applied under the misapprehension that your husband would not be granted his PR until September 2017 and now realize that that was a misunderstanding of the information you read on the CIC website.. Then tell the VO that you have in the circumstances revised your plans to fit the circumstances which you have now realized exist. In formulating that revised plan bear in mind that residence in Canada does not mean that you have to be in Canada all the time! A residence is where your home is, but you do not abandon your residence by being temporarily away from it. Is there any reason why you cannot compromise by setting up home in Canada as soon as your husband gets his COPR. Provided you genuinely set up home in Canada (for example by buying or renting a house or even by moving into digs temporarily when searching for a more permanent residence) , you will be residing in Canada even if you visit your husband from time to time. Your husband should be able to 'land' even if shortly after doing so he returns to the UK to wind up his affairs (which is what I amongst many others did). I see no harm in writing to the VO along those lines because even if you are unsuccessful you have plenty of time to apply afresh in due course. Dont under any circumstances lie about anything: that would ruin everything.

 

[Ti-coune]

Hi wowsers,

Your entry is rich with very useful data. Our next step will likely be as you suggest: use a case specific query to VO in London, insert your recommended text, and do it today(!).

I know, residing in Canada does not mean I have to stay there all the time, only that I have to genuinely set up significant ties (a place to live, change of driver's licence, apply for provincial health coverage, become a part-year taxpayer as per Revenue Canada, etc.). As you correctly suggest, personal circumstances come into play and due to a health situation with one of the family members, separating the family is not an option. It is something that we will air out in our VO enquiry. Do you know how long it takes for VO to reply? We have used their generic email query " ldnimmigration@international.gc.ca " twice before and their automated reply is that we could expect an answer in 28 days. The first reply took 10 days and we never heard back on the second enquiry, despite sending one hastener in May 15. Also do you know if our query goes to a generic customer service desk or does it go to the IO who wrote to us in the first place?

Lets' hope for a quick reply from VO so as not to jeopardise our full official answer in writing to our IO which is due in 2 weeks or else he/she adjudicates. Now that's the danger bit(!) and so we need to work within the IO's decision loop. We know that. Still, we can see the writing on the wall and will likely be canalised into a withdrawal and re-submission of our application. Fingers crossed for quick VO reply then. )

 

[wowsers]

Sorry, I have nothing further of much use to say in reply to your queries. I only resorted to a case specific inquiry once in my own case: progress with my application had been very slow, nothing untoward had been revealed in the searches I made and I was concerned that the validity of my medical would expire before DM. So I thought it wise to give the VO a gentle nudge by pointing out that the validity of the medical was about to expire and inquiring whether he/she intended to extend its validity in the circumstances. The result was spectacular: almost immediately ECAS showed a DM and the following day there was a COPR in the post. I cannot promise that something equally spectacular will happen in every case, but I was delighted with the sudden progress. Good luck with your inquiry.

 

[Ti-coune]

Hi wowsers. Good on you: I standby to be delighted as well(!). Their confirmation email subsequent to my case specific enquiry says that they'll answer in 28 days. Humm, fingers crossed...