Canadian Business owner : Maintaining Canadian PR RO while out of Canada

[su0du0tict]

I am a Canadian PR holder and have a Canadian incorporation. My clients are based out of US and I have dual status in US and Canada. Note - I do not get any payments from Canadian Clients/ business.

My client is asking me to come onsite for a year and there is not a way to commute since it is down south.

If I travel and work in US for a year - will I be able to meet the condition of working abroad for a Canadian incorporation and meet my residency obligation.

I draw dividends but am ok to draw some salary as well for the same . My incorp is profitable.

I was reading this but did not find a clear verbiage mentioning this situation :

Note : When I got initial PR- it was not able to move immediately thus lost some years in the start and thus it would be very essential for me to meet the RO.

https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/application/application-forms-guides/guide-5445-applying-permanent-resident-card-card-first-application-replacement-renewal-change-gender-identifier.html#appendixA

 

[canuck78]

I am a Canadian PR holder and have a Canadian incorporation. My clients are based out of US and I have dual status in US and Canada. Note - I do not get any payments from Canadian Clients/ business.

My client is asking me to come onsite for a year and there is not a way to commute since it is down south.

If I travel and work in US for a year - will I be able to meet the condition of working abroad for a Canadian incorporation and meet my residency obligation.

I draw dividends but am ok to draw some salary as well for the same . My incorp is profitable.

I was reading this but did not find a clear verbiage mentioning this situation :

Note : When I got initial PR- it was not able to move immediately thus lost some years in the start and thus it would be very essential for me to meet the RO.

https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/application/application-forms-guides/guide-5445-applying-permanent-resident-card-card-first-application-replacement-renewal-change-gender-identifier.html#appendixA

No you will not be able to count time working abroad. Your Canadian employer is not sending you abroad temporarily. Sounds like you are self-employed and are willingly choosing to go work on site for another company outside of Canada. Many have tried to claim time abroad towards RO while being self-employed and failed. You can certainly try but chances are low.

 

[scylla]

I am a Canadian PR holder and have a Canadian incorporation. My clients are based out of US and I have dual status in US and Canada. Note - I do not get any payments from Canadian Clients/ business.

My client is asking me to come onsite for a year and there is not a way to commute since it is down south.

If I travel and work in US for a year - will I be able to meet the condition of working abroad for a Canadian incorporation and meet my residency obligation.

I draw dividends but am ok to draw some salary as well for the same . My incorp is profitable.

I was reading this but did not find a clear verbiage mentioning this situation :

Note : When I got initial PR- it was not able to move immediately thus lost some years in the start and thus it would be very essential for me to meet the RO.

https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/application/application-forms-guides/guide-5445-applying-permanent-resident-card-card-first-application-replacement-renewal-change-gender-identifier.html#appendixA

There is clear verbiage in one of the IRCC manuals, including the evidence IRCC will expect from you. I'll look for that link for you later today and post it here. Once you read that, I think you will see that your case is not clear cut and so you should not assume this time will count and plan accordingly.

 

[su0du0tict]

There is clear verbiage in one of the IRCC manuals, including the evidence IRCC will expect from you. I'll look for that link for you later today and post it here. Once you read that, I think you will see that your case is not clear cut and so you should not assume this time will count and plan accordingly.

Is this what you were referring to: https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/application/application-forms-guides/guide-5445-applying-permanent-resident-card-card-first-application-replacement-renewal-change-gender-identifier.html#appendixA



Situation A. Employment outside Canada
You may count each day you worked outside Canada if:

• you are an employee of, or under contract to, a Canadian business or the public service of Canada or of a Canadian province or territory and
• as a term of your job or contract, you are assigned on a full-time basis to:
  • a position outside Canada
  • an affiliated enterprise outside Canada or
  • a client of the Canadian business or the public service outside Canada; and
• you will continue working for the employer in Canada after the assignment.

For this application, a Canadian business is defined as:

• a corporation that is incorporated under the laws of Canada or of a province and that has an ongoing operation in Canada
• an enterprise that:
  • has an ongoing operation in Canada
  • is capable of generating revenue
  • is carried out in anticipation of profit
  • in which a majority of voting or ownership interests is held by Canadian citizens, permanent residents, or Canadian businesses as defined above or
• an organization or enterprise created by the laws of Canada or a province

Supporting documents:

• You must provide a letter signed by an official of the business that confirms:
  • the position and title of the signing official;
  • the nature of the business and how it fits the description of a Canadian business (see definition above);
  • details of your assignment or contract outside Canada such as:
    • length of the assignment;
    • confirmation that you are a full-time employee of the “Canadian business” working abroad on a full-time basis as a term of your employment, or that you are on contract working abroad on a full-time basis as a term of your contract; and
    • a description or copy of the position profile regarding the assignment or contract abroad;
  • that you will continue working for the employer in Canada after your assignment ends; and
  • that the business was not created mainly for the purpose of meeting your residency obligation.
• You may also include:
  • articles of incorporation and business licenses
  • partnership agreements or corporate annual reports
  • corporate Canadian Income Tax Notices of Assessment or financial statements
  • copies of the Employee Assignment Agreement or Contract
  • copies of any agreements between the Canadian business and the business or client outside Canada concerning your assignment to that client or business
  • pay statements
  • Canadian Income Tax Notice of Assessment for the five years immediately before the application
  • T4 slips
  • any other proof you want us to consider

 

[scylla]

Is this what you were referring to: https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/application/application-forms-guides/guide-5445-applying-permanent-resident-card-card-first-application-replacement-renewal-change-gender-identifier.html#appendixA



Situation A. Employment outside Canada
You may count each day you worked outside Canada if:

• you are an employee of, or under contract to, a Canadian business or the public service of Canada or of a Canadian province or territory and
• as a term of your job or contract, you are assigned on a full-time basis to:
  • a position outside Canada
  • an affiliated enterprise outside Canada or
  • a client of the Canadian business or the public service outside Canada; and
• you will continue working for the employer in Canada after the assignment.

For this application, a Canadian business is defined as:

• a corporation that is incorporated under the laws of Canada or of a province and that has an ongoing operation in Canada
• an enterprise that:
  • has an ongoing operation in Canada
  • is capable of generating revenue
  • is carried out in anticipation of profit
  • in which a majority of voting or ownership interests is held by Canadian citizens, permanent residents, or Canadian businesses as defined above or
• an organization or enterprise created by the laws of Canada or a province

Supporting documents:

• You must provide a letter signed by an official of the business that confirms:
  • the position and title of the signing official;
  • the nature of the business and how it fits the description of a Canadian business (see definition above);
  • details of your assignment or contract outside Canada such as:
    • length of the assignment;
    • confirmation that you are a full-time employee of the “Canadian business” working abroad on a full-time basis as a term of your employment, or that you are on contract working abroad on a full-time basis as a term of your contract; and
    • a description or copy of the position profile regarding the assignment or contract abroad;
  • that you will continue working for the employer in Canada after your assignment ends; and
  • that the business was not created mainly for the purpose of meeting your residency obligation.
• You may also include:
  • articles of incorporation and business licenses
  • partnership agreements or corporate annual reports
  • corporate Canadian Income Tax Notices of Assessment or financial statements
  • copies of the Employee Assignment Agreement or Contract
  • copies of any agreements between the Canadian business and the business or client outside Canada concerning your assignment to that client or business
  • pay statements
  • Canadian Income Tax Notice of Assessment for the five years immediately before the application
  • T4 slips
  • any other proof you want us to consider

Yes! That's it. One of the challenges for people in your situation is often the "on going operations in Canada" requirements. But maybe you have a team / staff here that will continue working as part of your company while your are outside of Canada.

Generally the challenge is that it's not clear cut for individuals in your situation and there's no way to check in advance if IRCC will accept it. So if you want to rely on this time, then you have to be prepared to roll the dice / take the risk that IRCC doesn't agree.

 

[canuck78]

I am a Canadian PR holder and have a Canadian incorporation. My clients are based out of US and I have dual status in US and Canada. Note - I do not get any payments from Canadian Clients/ business.

My client is asking me to come onsite for a year and there is not a way to commute since it is down south.

If I travel and work in US for a year - will I be able to meet the condition of working abroad for a Canadian incorporation and meet my residency obligation.

I draw dividends but am ok to draw some salary as well for the same . My incorp is profitable.

I was reading this but did not find a clear verbiage mentioning this situation :

Note : When I got initial PR- it was not able to move immediately thus lost some years in the start and thus it would be very essential for me to meet the RO.

https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/application/application-forms-guides/guide-5445-applying-permanent-resident-card-card-first-application-replacement-renewal-change-gender-identifier.html#appendixA

How long have you actually spent in Canada since getting PR and when did you get PR. If you don’t have a longterm established Canadian business will also be harder to justify how you deserve to count time towards RO. Many people were establishing business to try and count time abroad as self-employed so IRCC is much stricter about those who are self-employed abroad especially if they are the only employee. The fact that your clients are not Canadian based and likely remained the same clients that you had before you moved somewhat recently to Canada also could count against you. Were you located in the US before? If so the move to Canada could be viewed as the temporary relocation not the other way around

 

[su0du0tict]

How long have you actually spent in Canada since getting PR and when did you get PR. If you don’t have a longterm established Canadian business will also be harder to justify how you deserve to count time towards RO. Many people were establishing business to try and count time abroad as self-employed so IRCC is much stricter about those who are self-employed abroad especially if they are the only employee. The fact that your clients are not Canadian based and likely remained the same clients that you had before you moved somewhat recently to Canada also could count against you. Where you located in the US before? If so the move to Canada could be viewed as the temporary relocation not the other way around

Incorporated in 2022- But the other points that you mentioned are valid. It seems it will be very hard to justify.

 

[armoured]

Yes! That's it. One of the challenges for people in your situation is often the "on going operations in Canada" requirements. But maybe you have a team / staff here that will continue working as part of your company while your are outside of Canada.

My understanding is that this would likely not be the problematic aspect of this (although it could be too, not an expert).

It's this:

I am a Canadian PR holder and have a Canadian incorporation. My clients are based out of US and I have dual status in US and Canada. Note - I do not get any payments from Canadian Clients/ business.

Basically IRCC looks through to the ownership and control aspect, and is quite strict that anyone 'controlling' in broad terms will not be given credit for this. On simple basis that if anyone with significant management control 'assigns' themselves to work abroad, that is not arm's length, etc., and cannot be considered an assignment under the law. (They go further in most cases and will, I understand, consider family relations and things like that to be in the same limitation - so signing your company over to spouse, brother, whatever is also not going to work).

"The client is requiring my company" [to do work abroad for my company where they are are requiring me specifically as an individual to do the work]? They'd likely give the simple answer that (in practice) it's a foreign company employing/contracting an individual and the company is a legal fiction*, regardless of whether the legal docs are in form of an employment or consulting contract or whatever.

*'Legal fiction' here not used in a negative way, just that they can consider substance of the relationship: foreign company A is paying individual B to do work.

I know this topic has been covered with references on the board here somewhere, not sure I saved a bookmark; if I can find it, will post it.

But as far as I'm aware in this circumstance should consider likelihood as zero that IRCC would give credit for these days working for a foreign company abroad.