Bringing a Canadian Vehicle to the US while a PR and US Citizen

[kwyatt75]

Here is something I have been thinking about. I am wondering if anyone else has had a similar situation. I am a US Citizen who has applied for Canadian PR under the FSW program. My App was received at the CIO in Sydney Dec 24, 2014. I got my PER email March 22, 2015.

I already know that Canadians and PRs cannot drive a vehicle with US plates...I read on another post and elsewhere that that is illegal. Whether I decide to import my US vehicle or end up just selling it and buying a vehicle in Canada, I wonder about what will happen if I want to come back to the US to visit family or on business, etc. I know that Canadian Citizens come to the US in their vehicles often as visitors (snowbirds in the winter). However, they are simply Canadians. In my case, I would still be a US Citizen but also a Canadian PR. I wonder if I would have problems at the border coming into the US and driving in the US in a vehicle with Canadian plates while I am still a US Citizen. Maybe showing that I have Canadian PR would make it permissible. I know I can't show only the PR as it is also illegal to enter as a PR only when you are actually still a US Citizen. Does anyone have any experience with this or insight?

Thanks!

 

[OhCanadiana]

Here is something I have been thinking about. I am wondering if anyone else has had a similar situation. I am a US Citizen who has applied for Canadian PR under the FSW program. My App was received at the CIO in Sydney Dec 24, 2014. I got my PER email March 22, 2015.

I already know that Canadians and PRs cannot drive a vehicle with US plates...I read on another post and elsewhere that that is illegal. Whether I decide to import my US vehicle or end up just selling it and buying a vehicle in Canada, I wonder about what will happen if I want to come back to the US to visit family or on business, etc. I know that Canadian Citizens come to the US in their vehicles often as visitors (snowbirds in the winter). However, they are simply Canadians. In my case, I would still be a US Citizen but also a Canadian PR. I wonder if I would have problems at the border coming into the US and driving in the US in a vehicle with Canadian plates while I am still a US Citizen. Maybe showing that I have Canadian PR would make it permissible. I know I can't show only the PR as it is also illegal to enter as a PR only when you are actually still a US Citizen. Does anyone have any experience with this or insight?

Thanks!

Let me clarify the rules - in Canada, a Canadian resident may not generally drive a foreign-plated car. That "resident" is "resident" from a CBSA perspective (which may be different from your immigration status).

This means that a Canadian PR or citizen who lives in the US may visit Canada and drive their US plated car in Canada while they are visiting with no issues. If they move to Canada, then they'd need to import the car (or use it just to transport their goods in and drive the car straight out with no point-to-point travel in Canada).

The US has a similar rule for visitors:

Nonresidents may import a vehicle duty-free for personal use up to (1) one year if the vehicle is imported in conjunction with the owner's arrival. Vehicles imported under this provision that do not conform to U.S. safety and emission standards must be exported within one year and may not be sold in the U.S. There is no exemption or extension of the export requirements.

http://www.cbp.gov/trade/basic-import-export/importing-car

 

[kwyatt75]

Let me clarify the rules - in Canada, a Canadian resident may not generally drive a foreign-plated car. That "resident" is "resident" from a CBSA perspective (which may be different from your immigration status).

What do you mean from a CBSA perspective? I think what you saying is that (if it is true) even though you are a PR, you can still say that you are living in the US and are just visiting Canada.

This means that a Canadian PR or citizen who lives in the US may visit Canada and drive their US plated car in Canada while they are visiting with no issues.

Wouldn't that then cause problems with the residency obligation? In order to not loose PR you have to have been "physically present" 730 days out of the preceding 5 years. If you claim you are living in the US (and you are) would that make the time you are "visiting" Canada not count towards the residency obligation? Would there be a contradiction there or does it even matter? Is "physical presence" simply being present within the borders of Canada regardless of whether you have residence elsewhere?

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The US has a similar rule for visitors:

Nonresidents may import a vehicle duty-free for personal use up to (1) one year if the vehicle is imported in conjunction with the owner's arrival. Vehicles imported under this provision that do not conform to U.S. safety and emission standards must be exported within one year and may not be sold in the U.S. There is no exemption or extension of the export requirements.

http://www.cbp.gov/trade/basic-import-export/importing-car

If that is the case, I'm thinking the best bet is to have a vehicle that is plated Canadian and then "import the vehicle duty-free" while visiting the US. I wonder though if I could be considered a "visitor" by US Customs and Border Protection if I am in fact a US Citizen taking up residence in Canada.

To clarify my hypothetical situation:
Once I get PR I will likely spend some time periods in Canada and some time (probably more time, at least for the first few years) in the US. I will definitely want to make sure that I meet the 730 days for the residency obligation so as to not lose my PR status as I will eventually want to move permanently and probably eventually apply for citizenship. I will likely do my travel between countries by road, not air as we have a land border, it will be cheaper for me and my family, and I will need to have a vehicle for transportation for the times when I am in the US and for the times when I am in Canada. I'm just trying to figure out how to best navigate this in a legally appropriate way.

Thanks for your reply. ;D

 

[OhCanadiana]

What do you mean from a CBSA perspective? I think what you saying is that (if it is true) even though you are a PR, you can still say that you are living in the US and are just visiting Canada.

In Canada you can be a resident for one purpose but not another.

In the US, if you are a PR of the US and want to keep it you must pay taxes as a US resident. The analogous is not true in Canada.

Take a look at http://www.cbsa.gc.ca/publications/dm-md/d2/d2-2-1-eng.html, for example, which spells this out clearly:

Variation Between Customs/Immigration Legislation

9. A person’s status for customs purposes is not always the same as their status for immigration purposes.

10. As an example, a person can become a permanent resident without the intention of residing immediately in Canada. However, this person is not determined to be a settler as defined in the customs legislation, and be eligible for the provisions of tariff item No. 9807.00.00. In this case, since the person does not have any intention of remaining in Canada at that time, and will live outside Canada for an undetermined period of time, that person is considered a non-resident of Canada and not a settler, for the purpose of the Customs Tariff, and is eligible to temporarily import goods under tariff item No. 9803.00.00.

Wouldn't that then cause problems with the residency obligation? In order to not loose PR you have to have been "physically present" 730 days out of the preceding 5 years. If you claim you are living in the US (and you are) would that make the time you are "visiting" Canada not count towards the residency obligation? Would there be a contradiction there or does it even matter? Is "physical presence" simply being present within the borders of Canada regardless of whether you have residence elsewhere?

Under the current legislation, any day you have been present in Canada within the last 5 years counts as a day in Canada to maintain PR status. So, for example, if you go to land and stay there for 2 weeks before going back to the US to wrap up your affairs those 2 weeks would count as days present in Canada for PR status.

For citizenship purposes, under the current legislation, it's a bit more complex. You need to have been living in Canada for 3 out of the last 5 years. The easiest way to count this has been through physical presence for those three years (but there has been decisions with people proving they live in Canada even though they've traveled extensively for business ... look up the Koo decision on canlii if you wish to see the details). Generally speaking, to count days for citizenship purposes, either the day you arrive or leave Canada counts as a day in Canada. Feb 29 doesn't count either way. So if you head to the US for a 2 week visit, and head out on a Saturday and returning Sunday you can either count the Saturday OR the Sunday but not both as a day present in Canada. Days before you were a PR count as half-days.

For citizenship purposes, under the new legislation, you will need to have been living in Canada 4 out of the last 6 years and there is also a requirement to intend to reside in Canada. Days before you were a PR don't count.

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If that is the case, I'm thinking the best bet is to have a vehicle that is plated Canadian and then "import the vehicle duty-free" while visiting the US. I wonder though if I could be considered a "visitor" by US Customs and Border Protection if I am in fact a US Citizen taking up residence in Canada.

To clarify my hypothetical situation:
Once I get PR I will likely spend some time periods in Canada and some time (probably more time, at least for the first few years) in the US. I will definitely want to make sure that I meet the 730 days for the residency obligation so as to not lose my PR status as I will eventually want to move permanently and probably eventually apply for citizenship. I will likely do my travel between countries by road, not air as we have a land border, it will be cheaper for me and my family, and I will need to have a vehicle for transportation for the times when I am in the US and for the times when I am in Canada. I'm just trying to figure out how to best navigate this in a legally appropriate way.

Thanks for your reply. ;D

You'll want to check the scenarios you consider with your insurer and state regulations too.