Arranged marriage from Gaza: haven't met wife due to siege

[n74i4]

I would like to sponsor my wife who lives in the Gaza Strip but my case is complicated and potentially suspicious. My wife is my first cousin and it is a case of a pure arranged marriage where I haven't been able to meet my wife in person yet because of constraints beyond my control.

I married her by proxy because Gaza is under siege and there is no way for me to visit her or for her to meet me outside Gaza. She can only get out of Gaza if she has a clear destination and being from Gaza it is nearly impossible for her to get a visa anywhere. I communicate with her mostly through the internet (video chat and instant messaging- my main proof of relationship apart from my marriage certificate).

I would appreciate any advice.

 

[heatherusa]

Sounds rough. I have no advice, only words of comfort. I wish you luck and hope that things will progress with speed for you!

 

[iarblue]

Wow thats a hard one.well as we all know immigration bases the application on you proof of showing how you spent time together.And the legnth of the relationship.As you can not prove any of this is likely they wont give her a PR.
Its not the case of being first cousin or arranged marriages because they are well aware of this way of life as you wont be the first or last to have an arranged marriage to their first cousin.
Its you can prove to them that you have love for eachother or have spent time together.They are likely going to refuse it is the first app.You may unfortunatley be forced to leave her there until the unrest in that country settles enough for you to there to visit and spend time with her.
But you can alwyas try explain your situation,gather the proof you have of your contact to her,and im not even sure if marriage by proxy is even recgonized in Canada as a marriage.
But like i say the worse they can say is no,then you wait till you can visit her and apply again.
I wish you all the best and good luck, i cant imagine what you might be going through as i never have gone through it and dont wish it on anyone so all the best and like i said try.

 

[Lois Lane]

some cultures marry without ever having met the spouse, no love required, and marriages are done by proxy and or over the phone, the fact that is your situation along with the unrest in Gaza, add on top that you are cousins...it will certainly seem it is not a genuine marriage....that you two will not live together once the applicant arrives in Canada

Each case is very unique, you will undoubtedly have obstacles, more than likely be refused first time around. The "constraints beyond your control" would have to be expressed in detail to immigration.

The key in such a situation is solely about acknowledging what you know they will question but show the other side as well. That being, the intent to live together. It is a challenge for you no doubt. But if your marriage albeit arranged is genuine, then your DAILY chats, regular phone call receipts, any receipts for gifts exchanged is what you would need to send

most importantly, you would need to go and vist for as long as possible, as soon as possible, as many times as possible, and send that proof along even after the application has been filed but ideally before an interview. once you have pictures with her then it will be a little easier.

it is best to consumate the marriage, or that too will be a big challenge for you to over come with immigration.

seeming it will be a very long wait

best of luck!

 

[iarblue]

Yes and most of those marriages are refused.The ap strickly asks you to tell them about your contact before and after your marriage,common law,or what ever started.
I understand people marry by proxy yes but they do eventually meet before they apply,he cant right now because of the unrests in gaza so, like i stated you can apply explain the situation and most likely be refused if so then wait till you can see eachother build up a relationship some proof and reapply.
I also said immigration knows about arranged marriages and proxy but if they are approved without any proof of a relationship not at all.

 

[canadianwoman]

I communicate with her mostly through the internet (video chat and instant messaging- my main proof of relationship apart from my marriage certificate).

Marriage by proxy is OK if it is legal and recognized in Gaza - you will have to show proof it is. Arranged marriage to a cousin is common in the Middle East, so CIC should be OK with that.
Your only proof of a genuine marriage is video chat and instant messaging, so make sure you can document this and that there is a lot of it. Get records of all this, even if it costs more.
Never having met her and not having consummated the marriage will be problem areas for CIC. Try to meet her somewhere, and document this visit well.

 

[Siouxie]

From OP2 (outland family class sponsorship). http://www.cic.gc.ca/english//resources/manuals/op/op02-eng.pdf - an arranged /proxy marriage is accepted for Immigration purposes.

Arranged marriage
Family members or a marriage broker usually arrange such marriages. The participants may not have met before the marriage, but will be familiar with each other's background. Such marriages are recognised for immigration purposes because they are legally recognized where they occur but must also be legal under federal Canadian law.

Proxy marriage
At a proxy marriage one of the participants is not present and has named a proxy to represent him or her. If the law of the country in which the marriage ceremony was performed permits proxy marriages, they are legal marriages for immigration purposes, provided they are legal under Canadian federal law.

Telephone marriage
A marriage in which one of the participants is not physically present and is not represented by a proxy but participates directly by telephone is a legal marriage if it is legally recognized according to the law of the place where it occurred. This is a legal marriage for immigration purposes provided it meets the Canadian federal requirements, with respect to consanguinity and polygamy/bigamy.


It is almost impossible for you to visit her, due to the "problems" around the Gaza Strip (Canadians are being advised NOT to go there... http://www.voyage.gc.ca/countries_pays/report_rapport-eng.asp?id=135000 ). I don't think it would be safe for you to go there. Your wife can't leave the West Bank / Gaza area due to the severe restrictions in place, so it is impossible for her to meet up with you somewhere else.

I think if you can document your relationship, as far as possible, showing the conversations, emails etc., together with proof of contact (you can do screen prints of IM messages, talk over web cams and record it, copies of phone bills showing the contact etc.,) and a full written explanation as to why neither of you is able to be together (include documentary evidence from government web sites with regards to travel in that area) it "should" help alleviate some of the questions. You may want to get letters of support from both families / friends too.

I have no doubt you are going to come under close scrutiny and all you can do to mitigate it is to supply as much documentary evidence as possible to show that the marriage is a genuine relationship.

I hope that you are successful in your application.

 

[iarblue]

Yes i said immigration does recgonize proxy marriages,that is not the issue his marriage is not what will be questioned...its going to be his contact with her after and before marriage,he has none.
Do you honestly think immigration is going to approve a couple that has had no contact whats so ever before they apply.
Dont give this guy false hopes.They will for sure be fine with his marriage but they will not be fine that they have never been with eachother before or after the marriage,even arranged marriages the couple usually do meet after.
I cant immagine immigration said to a couple that had an arranged marriage,never seen eachother after,or before and approved the app.
Like i said you can apply send in as much proof as you can to them to show your contact and pray for the best but i was just saying do not get your hopes up too high,the chance it will happen are slim,couples who got married in church have proof and been together are refused so.
Best of luck.

 

[n74i4]

"Thanks for your responses even though they didn't leave me with a fuzzy feeling about the whole situation

There is an added twist to this. My brother is married to her sister and they live in Canada (work permit) and they have 2 children together and are so obviously genuinely married. Basically in our extended family almost from childhood it is determined that boys from this family will marry girls from this family and although I struggled with this at first I found peace with it after seeing how well my brother's marriage worked out
.
On one hand I think it could look like I am helping my brother and his wife bring their sister over but on the other hand it gives credibility to the sort of traditional marriage we're dealing with. So do you think this will help or hinder my case?"

 

[iarblue]

The app does not ask about your brother or her sisters relationship so do not include it.Then you dont have to worry if it will hinder or help And i checked into this further and it was just told to me that they may approve this but they are going to ask for an extensive interview with her.
So if it gets this far make sure the two of you have all your ducks in a row before the interview.She is in a torn country right now and she may luck out.Like i sadi bud apply the worse they can say is no.And if they do then stregthen your relationship and apply again.

 

[Siouxie]

Your marriage is similar to a conjugal application where neither party can reside with each other, I suggest you look at http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/manuals/op/op02-eng.pdf sections 5.26 - assessment of conjugal relationship (marriage/common law or conjugal); 5.44 - inability to cohabit due to circumstances beyond your control; and 12.3 for details of how they determine a relationship of convenience. Reading as much of the manual as possible will give you insight into what they will look for and what evidence they require.

Actually, I disagree with iarblue, I think telling immigration about your brother's marriage, about how the 2 families arranged the marriage of both sons to both daughters years ago etc., shows that this is a long term thing and not a marriage entered into for immigration purposes (provided it was done prior to any applications to emigrate!) Was a contract drawn up between the families at the time? If so (and it is dated many years ago, say, when you were all children) that could also be evidence that it is a genuine marriage.

This is only my opinion... others may disagree and / or offer better advice.

 

[iarblue]

This was taken from 5-30

If a proxy marriage occurs at a foreign mission in Canada (the proxy is given by the foreign
national and the Canadian resident is present at the mission for the ceremony), the marriage must
meet the legal requirements of Canada (federal and provincial) in order to be legally valid. At this
time, no provinces permit proxy marriages; therefore, these marriages are invalid.

5.36. How can someone in Canada sponsor a common-law partner from outside Canada when
the definition says “is cohabiting”?
According to case law, the definition of common-law partner should be read as “an individual who
is (ordinarily) cohabiting”. After the one year period of cohabitation has been established, the
partners may live apart for periods of time without legally breaking the cohabitation. For example,
a couple may have been separated due to armed conflict, illness of a family member, or for
employment or education-related reasons, and therefore do not cohabit at present (see also 5.44
for information on persecution and penal control). Despite the break in cohabitation, a commonlaw
relationship exists if the couple has cohabited continuously in a conjugal relationship in the
past for at least one year and intend to do so again as soon as possible. There should be
evidence demonstrating that both parties are continuing the relationship, such as visits,
correspondence, and telephone calls.
This situation is similar to a marriage where the parties are temporarily separated or not
cohabiting for a variety of reasons, but still considers themselves to be married and living in a
conjugal relationship with their spouse with the intention of living together as soon as possible.
For common-law relationships (and marriage), the longer the period of separation without any
cohabitation, the more difficult it is to establish that the common-law relationship (or marriage) still
exists.

But like i said this case is not based on wether your brothers marriage is working out,they do nto care that your brother is happy in his marriage and that it is arranged through the same family they are going to base yours on the proof you supply of your own.So telling them your brother is married to your wifes sister throuhg contract is of no significance.

 

[n74i4]

Thank you all for the time you're putting into this, I am keenly reading your advice and have got good ideas so far that will help me present my difficult case while addressing concerns that you've exposed.

 

[canadianwoman]

I read a case that won on appeal where two brothers married two sisters. The fact that the one marriage in Canada seemed to be successful and happy was taken as a good sign for the second marriage.
You have to list your wife's siblings on the application, so they may note her sister's surname is the same as yours and follow up. I'd tell them about your brother's marriage to her sister up front. Explain - with as much proof as you can get - that it is a family custom.

Where will your wife have to go for an interview, and how will she get out of Gaza? If she can get out for the interview, could you arrange to visit her then?

Definitely send in a printout of the Canadian government's travel advisory concerning Israel and Gaza with your application.
Maybe contact the embassy in Israel for advice as well.

 

[MexiCana]

I read a case that won on appeal where two brothers married two sisters. The fact that the one marriage in Canada seemed to be successful and happy was taken as a good sign for the second marriage.
You have to list your wife's siblings on the application, so they may note her sister's surname is the same as yours and follow up. I'd tell them about your brother's marriage to her sister up front. Explain - with as much proof as you can get - that it is a family custom.

Where will your wife have to go for an interview, and how will she get out of Gaza? If she can get out for the interview, could you arrange to visit her then?

Definitely send in a printout of the Canadian government's travel advisory concerning Israel and Gaza with your application.
Maybe contact the embassy in Israel for advice as well.

I agree about being honest. It will come out eventually as your wife must disclose her siblings' names and addresses on the Additional Family Information form and this kind of information will be extremely damaging if it appears that you were trying to hide it.