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Appealing to new govt for better CIC transparency

ScubaC

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Jun 21, 2012
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Hi guys,

I have wondered about the efficiency of the call centre and also the agents now not accessing our files as they used to.

This to me is a HUGE step back. They are being LESS transparent. We don't know where or what our files are doing, people are getting conflicting information etc etc.

We all have been through this.

Anyone have any ideas on how to petition the new govt to change this? Maybe make the call centre agents have better access to our files? Let us know what is going on?
 

turboracer

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Jul 20, 2011
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ScubaC said:
Hi guys,

I have wondered about the efficiency of the call centre and also the agents now not accessing our files as they used to.

This to me is a HUGE step back. They are being LESS transparent. We don't know where or what our files are doing, people are getting conflicting information etc etc.

We all have been through this.

Anyone have any ideas on how to petition the new govt to change this? Maybe make the call centre agents have better access to our files? Let us know what is going on?
You are so right let's open a petition online

www.change.org

And let's hand the signatures to the BC Liberty association

And to the government
 

dpenabill

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Apr 2, 2010
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There are many influences which determine how open or transparent government bodies are, ranging from formal rules to the bureaucratic culture, but also including simple things like funding and allocation of resources (especially human resources). None of these operates like an on-and-off switch when a new government is formed. Some can be very slow to change, more a process of evolution.

As information-controlling as Harper's Conservatives were, for example, it took years for the impact of this to permeate through CIC. They first formed the government in 2006, for example, but it was not until 2010 that information like the annual report from the Citizenship Commission disappeared, not until 2012 when Operational Bulletins were routinely being concealed from public access, around 2011 or so, as I recall, that published timelines became utterly uninformative (publishing only the timeline for how long it took for 80% of application to be processed, which offers little or no clue about how long it took the median or average applicant). And from all appearances it is likely they had a deliberate agenda to decrease the amount of information available to not just the public but also applicants.

Which is to say, there will be no sudden changes in how CIC approaches informing either the public or its clients. Bureaucracy is what bureaucracy does, and one of the dominant characteristics of bureaucracy is to do whatever it does slowly and to implement change even more slowly. Regardless which government is in power.

But Justin Trudeau is promising a more open and transparent government. He has already engaged the public and media far more openly than Harper ever did. I understand he is inviting the leaders of the other parties to participate in the European climate conference. I think we can anticipate genuine change in how open this government functions.

But down at the level of day-to-day interactions between bureaucrats and the public, that is going to take awhile, probably years just to unravel many of the cultural bonds tending to restrict the flow or release of information that have developed under a different, less transparent approach to governing in the last decade.

I would urge patience. And sure that will be hard to take for those in the throes of complicated cases (those who have routine cases really should just relax, wait for the notices, no need to be checking status or seeking updates from the CIC call centre), particularly those who have already waited a very long time. But CIC is not the only bureaucracy, not the only part of government, that has had its curtains pulled closed and its purse strings dramatically shortened over the last decade. There is a great, great deal to remedy after nearly ten years of not just a Conservative government, but a very leader-centric Harper controlled Conservative government. This is going to take time, a lot of time. Perhaps more than the term of office for this government. Years anyway, at best.

So far though, most signs indicate a more open road ahead. But it is no where near time to start nagging "are we there yet?"



That said, many seem to expect more information than there is to be obtained:

There are not that many actual action-taking steps in the processing of a routine citizenship application. The vast majority of time an application is merely sitting in a queue, nothing happening to it. It is not as if there is this or that happening from month to month, let alone week to week. From one step to the next, the application sits. And sits. And sits. We see scores of applicants calling the call centre month in and month out for updates when there is no update. But there is only a slim window in time between when an action is being taken, a next step being scheduled, and the notice appears in eCas or the applicant's mailbox. Some might actually catch a call centre representative during that slim window, and thus learn something a day or ten days sooner than if they had just waited for it to show up in eCas or their mailbox. But the odds of that are small (indeed, much if not most of the time, the call centre representative cannot see any action or scheduling until the applicant can also see it in eCas). And there is so little gained.

The vast majority of applicants have routine cases and their application will proceed through the process in due course, subject to the vagaries of the particular region or local office, this or that factor in the individual application, but mostly all on track with the test and interview to be scheduled within the range of time for that office, to be followed by the oath as is the norm for that office. No need to call the call centre, let alone order ATIP. Sure, there are many occasions when some applicants should make inquiry with the call centre, or even order a copy of their records through the ATIP process. But the vast majority do not need to do this. And, indeed, there is most often virtually nothing of interest, let alone import, to be learned, largely because the application is merely sitting in a queue with nothing happening.

There are many who participate in this forum who are among those who could easily relax and be patient and just wait to hear from CIC. It is not likely any of their actions are going to change or accelerate how things go. Odds are the file is sitting, and sitting, and eventually it will be next in line for a CIC worker to open and do the tasks that will move the file to its next step. Nothing will inform the impatient applicant when that is going to happen before it happens. When it happens, and the file is taken to the next step, they will be informed soon enough without having to ask. In the meantime there is no reason to hound the call centre. There are plenty of applicants who have real issues pending in their case and it would be appreciated if those with routine cases eased up on CIC and let them focus on more timely responding to those applicants who have real issues. A little consideration for others, and for how our tax dollars are spent, might not hurt. All resources are limited.
 

ambient2

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@dpenabill
Completely agree with you.
When I orderer my ATIP, I realised that there was more useless information I was bargaining for.
Why anyone should care about transparency and getting gibberish data (ala ATIP) on their eCas updates ?
It is clear that CIC's lack of human resources prolongs the time for most of the applications, and nothing will change even if one knows on who's desk his file is sitting.

Another point I want to add, most of us who applies for citizenship, has no bad intention or misrepresentation, however the so called "transparency" might give the wrong people some wrong information, which can be used to manipulate the outcome.
 

keesio

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I think more transparency would be helpful. Even if the application is just sitting in a pile. At least people will know it is in a pile and while they can complain about that, they won't waste time wondering what is happening and asking questions on the forum and calling CIC all the time.
 

Bigudi

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keesio said:
I think more transparency would be helpful. Even if the application is just sitting in a pile. At least people will know it is in a pile and while they can complain about that, they won't waste time wondering what is happening and asking questions on the forum and calling CIC all the time.

Precisely. Even "useless" weekly updates like "Still sitting on Montreal's Office" would put a lot of minds at ease.
People would know there there isn't a document issue, or any other kind of issue. And they could follow up weekly whatever is happening (or not happening) with their applications.
 

ifeedly

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I guess once a month update won't hurt but having said that, CIC already informed us that E-CAS is updated every Tuesday. So no update to E-CAS means file is still in the pile as per the last stamp.

DO I really want a call center agent having access to my file and all information in it??? there is a reason why the CIC officer is called an officer and call center agents are call center agents.

More transparency: Do I really want that netscape navigator browser back in my life that used to load pages line by line as the data was coming in (Circa 2001).
 

Bigudi

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There is another thing that transparency could help.

It would be really helpful to understand what is the workflow inside the CIC offices. I mean... How come the person A applies two months before the person B, but the person A gets its citizenship 6 months AFTER person B? Assuming A and B are from the same office, same case, no RQs, no nothing. Just a simple apply - AOR - In process - test - Oath.

I really would like to understand that, because it is CLEARLY not "first come, first serve" basis.