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Appeal departure order

kateg

Hero Member
Aug 26, 2014
918
87
124
British Columbia
Category........
Visa Office......
CPC-O
NOC Code......
2174
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
01-05-2015
Nomination.....
N/A
AOR Received.
01-05-2015
IELTS Request
05-05-2015
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Med's Done....
16-04-2015
Interview........
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LANDED..........
27-08-2015
MonMoi said:
My spouse receive the passport with PR visa, will encounter any problem when landing?
I wouldn't expect her to have any issues. It might be a good idea, however, for your spouse to land as soon as reasonably possible.
 

MonMoi

Member
Jan 23, 2016
12
0
kateg said:
I wouldn't expect her to have any issues. It might be a good idea, however, for your spouse to land as soon as reasonably possible.
Thank you Kateg. My wife landed one week a ago without any issues. My appeal hearing has not been arranged yet, I'm wondering would my wife lose her PR status if my appeal was not allowed?
 

kateg

Hero Member
Aug 26, 2014
918
87
124
British Columbia
Category........
Visa Office......
CPC-O
NOC Code......
2174
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
01-05-2015
Nomination.....
N/A
AOR Received.
01-05-2015
IELTS Request
05-05-2015
File Transfer...
N/A
Med's Request
N/A
Med's Done....
16-04-2015
Interview........
N/A
VISA ISSUED...
N/A
LANDED..........
27-08-2015
MonMoi said:
Thank you Kateg. My wife landed one week a ago without any issues. My appeal hearing has not been arranged yet, I'm wondering would my wife lose her PR status if my appeal was not allowed?
Does she have conditional PR?
 

kateg

Hero Member
Aug 26, 2014
918
87
124
British Columbia
Category........
Visa Office......
CPC-O
NOC Code......
2174
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
01-05-2015
Nomination.....
N/A
AOR Received.
01-05-2015
IELTS Request
05-05-2015
File Transfer...
N/A
Med's Request
N/A
Med's Done....
16-04-2015
Interview........
N/A
VISA ISSUED...
N/A
LANDED..........
27-08-2015
MonMoi said:
The conditions:
51. Must cohabit in a conjugal relationship for 2 years
Others are welcome to chime in on this one, but that fact very well might complicate things with you.

She's required to live with you for two years after getting PR. She's also required to live 2 years out of five in Canada. If you are required to leave Canada, that may make the timing tough.

Depending on how long your hearing (and appeals) take, it may make sense for her to accompany you out of the country. For example, suppose you lose the hearing in 6 months. She could move with you outside Canada for another 18 months (thus completing her 2 year requirement), at which point her condition disappears. She's then free to return to Canada as she wishes (as long as she meets the 730 day requirement), at which point she can then sponsor you. This also potentially means that you can have a work permit while you wait for sponsorship to go through.
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,435
3,182
I largely concur with the observations posted by kateg.

Further observations:

To be clear: your status, and more to point if you lose PR status, has NO Direct impact on that of your spouse.

That is, her PR status cannot be revoked because your PR status is revoked.

Otherwise, however, your spouse's status is at least technically dependent on satisfying the condition to cohabitate for two years. And of course on compliance with the PR Residency Obligation.

Minister McCallum has recently suggested the Liberal government will remove the two-year condition of cohabitation for sponsored partners. Obviously this cannot be counted on to happen until it actually does happen. But it does signal that under his leadership, IRCC is not likely to aggressively enforce these conditions. Even as is, it appears there is little or no effort to independently enforce this condition; enforcement appears limited to cases in which a complaint or report is made (typically by the sponsor), a fraud tip is made (which would be for those cases in which the marriage and sponsorship itself was fraudulent, typically involving a sponsor paid to sponsor or otherwise receiving something in exchange, like in exchange for a reciprocal sponsorship) or in situations for which a breach of the condition is more or less blatantly obvious, too blatant to ignore. While this should not be interpreted to be a license to ignore the condition, it does suggest that if no one complains, the couple remain in a genuine relationship, and there is not a blatant disregard for the rules, the odds are high that a technical breach of the condition will not trigger enforcement.

kateg suggested a strategy to comply with the condition in the event the appeal is lost and consequently your PR status is terminated, and you have to leave Canada.

Timing Problem:

There is one glitch in the timing in the strategy suggested by kateg: your spouse will not be eligible to sponsor you until late January 2021. PRs themselves sponsored are not eligible to sponsor a partner for five years after landing. (I have not looked at the particular statutory and regulatory provisions to see if there is a potential exception; one of the problems with the new PDI format is that unlike the Operational Manuals, the PDIs tend to not give specific reference to the applicable statute and regulations, making it more work to check these things.)


See a lawyer:

The combination of having been issued the PR TD and how close you cut it to the PR RO threshold, seems to me it is worth making a concerted effort to build the H&C case, and that there is a good chance a lawyer could really help.
 

kateg

Hero Member
Aug 26, 2014
918
87
124
British Columbia
Category........
Visa Office......
CPC-O
NOC Code......
2174
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
01-05-2015
Nomination.....
N/A
AOR Received.
01-05-2015
IELTS Request
05-05-2015
File Transfer...
N/A
Med's Request
N/A
Med's Done....
16-04-2015
Interview........
N/A
VISA ISSUED...
N/A
LANDED..........
27-08-2015
dpenabill said:
See a lawyer:
The combination of having been issued the PR TD and how close you cut it to the PR RO threshold, seems to me it is worth making a concerted effort to build the H&C case, and that there is a good chance a lawyer could really help.
I would definitely concur on this one. The fact that your spouse is a Permanent Resident, and that you losing PR could potentially force her to move could potentially impact your H&C considerations. They don't like breaking up families.

There is one glitch in the timing in the strategy suggested by kateg: your spouse will not be eligible to sponsor you until late January 2021. PRs themselves sponsored are not eligible to sponsor a partner for five years after landing.
Thank you for bringing that up - I was not aware of it. The specific regulation is in R130:

(3) A sponsor who became a permanent resident or a Canadian citizen after being sponsored as a spouse, common-law partner or conjugal partner under subsection 13(1) of the Act may not sponsor a foreign national referred to in subsection (1) as a spouse, common-law partner or conjugal partner, unless the sponsor has been a permanent resident, or a Canadian citizen, or a combination of the two, for a period of at least five years immediately preceding the day on which a sponsorship application referred to in paragraph (1)(c) is filed by the sponsor in respect of the foreign national.
http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/sor-2002-227/section-130.html

That would indeed add some time to the sponsorship and work permit. An H&C case really is the way to go here, and monmoi and his wife should work to establish themselves as quickly and completely as possible in Canada in order to maximize the H&C considerations.

Monmoi - you should have your bank accounts, your home, your work in Canada - everything possible to tie you here, with as few ties as possible to the original country. These factors are taken into consideration during appeals, and the harder it is for you to go back (and the easier it is to stay), the more likely you are to win - particularly if your spouse is here, too.
 

zardoz

VIP Member
Feb 2, 2013
13,298
2,167
Canada
Category........
FAM
Visa Office......
London
App. Filed.......
16-02-2013
VISA ISSUED...
31-07-2013
LANDED..........
09-11-2013
kateg said:
I would definitely concur on this one. The fact that your spouse is a Permanent Resident, and that you losing PR could potentially force her to move could potentially impact your H&C considerations. They don't like breaking up families.

Thank you for bringing that up - I was not aware of it. The specific regulation is in R130:

http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/sor-2002-227/section-130.html

That would indeed add some time to the sponsorship and work permit. An H&C case really is the way to go here, and zardoz and his wife should work to establish themselves as quickly and completely as possible in Canada in order to maximize the H&C considerations.

Zardoz - you should have your bank accounts, your home, your work in Canada - everything possible to tie you here, with as few ties as possible to the original country. These factors are taken into consideration during appeals, and the harder it is for you to go back (and the easier it is to stay), the more likely you are to win - particularly if your spouse is here, too.
Err... You should probably reread the thread again. You seem to have mixed up the players.
 

MonMoi

Member
Jan 23, 2016
12
0
dpenabill said:
I largely concur with the observations posted by kateg.

Further observations:

To be clear: your status, and more to point if you lose PR status, has NO Direct impact on that of your spouse.

That is, her PR status cannot be revoked because your PR status is revoked.

Otherwise, however, your spouse's status is at least technically dependent on satisfying the condition to cohabitate for two years. And of course on compliance with the PR Residency Obligation.

Minister McCallum has recently suggested the Liberal government will remove the two-year condition of cohabitation for sponsored partners. Obviously this cannot be counted on to happen until it actually does happen. But it does signal that under his leadership, IRCC is not likely to aggressively enforce these conditions. Even as is, it appears there is little or no effort to independently enforce this condition; enforcement appears limited to cases in which a complaint or report is made (typically by the sponsor), a fraud tip is made (which would be for those cases in which the marriage and sponsorship itself was fraudulent, typically involving a sponsor paid to sponsor or otherwise receiving something in exchange, like in exchange for a reciprocal sponsorship) or in situations for which a breach of the condition is more or less blatantly obvious, too blatant to ignore. While this should not be interpreted to be a license to ignore the condition, it does suggest that if no one complains, the couple remain in a genuine relationship, and there is not a blatant disregard for the rules, the odds are high that a technical breach of the condition will not trigger enforcement.

kateg suggested a strategy to comply with the condition in the event the appeal is lost and consequently your PR status is terminated, and you have to leave Canada.

Timing Problem:

There is one glitch in the timing in the strategy suggested by kateg: your spouse will not be eligible to sponsor you until late January 2021. PRs themselves sponsored are not eligible to sponsor a partner for five years after landing. (I have not looked at the particular statutory and regulatory provisions to see if there is a potential exception; one of the problems with the new PDI format is that unlike the Operational Manuals, the PDIs tend to not give specific reference to the applicable statute and regulations, making it more work to check these things.)


See a lawyer:

The combination of having been issued the PR TD and how close you cut it to the PR RO threshold, seems to me it is worth making a concerted effort to build the H&C case, and that there is a good chance a lawyer could really help.
Thank you dpenabill, for your time and details, that means a lot to me.
my lawyer told me I have high chance to win the hearing, but I'm still nervous about it.
 

kateg

Hero Member
Aug 26, 2014
918
87
124
British Columbia
Category........
Visa Office......
CPC-O
NOC Code......
2174
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
01-05-2015
Nomination.....
N/A
AOR Received.
01-05-2015
IELTS Request
05-05-2015
File Transfer...
N/A
Med's Request
N/A
Med's Done....
16-04-2015
Interview........
N/A
VISA ISSUED...
N/A
LANDED..........
27-08-2015
zardoz said:
Err... You should probably reread the thread again. You seem to have mixed up the players.
Sorry. Not my best day. That was directed at the original poster.
 

kateg

Hero Member
Aug 26, 2014
918
87
124
British Columbia
Category........
Visa Office......
CPC-O
NOC Code......
2174
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
01-05-2015
Nomination.....
N/A
AOR Received.
01-05-2015
IELTS Request
05-05-2015
File Transfer...
N/A
Med's Request
N/A
Med's Done....
16-04-2015
Interview........
N/A
VISA ISSUED...
N/A
LANDED..........
27-08-2015
MonMoi said:
Thank you dpenabill, for your time and details, that means a lot to me.
my lawyer told me I have high chance to win the hearing, but I'm still nervous about it.
Your lawyer has good reasons to feel confident. There's a big difference between being a few days short, and being very very short.