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Any experience with medical inadmissibility? What is their limit?

mira_johnson

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Cic mentions the risk of becoming medical inadmissible due to health issues when applying for a PR.
Their terms: "if a condition is likely to:
• endanger public health or public safety, or
• cause excessive demands on health or social services (some exceptions exist) "

... is very broad, and general.
Can anyone please provide some examples or details of when an applicants' health may present an issue? Most people have some health issues, but the degree of health issues can vary a great deal. Everything from simple migraines, to syndromes, diabetes, neurological diseases, etc.

Are there any available examples to give us some clues of what they may view as "causing excessive demands on health or social services"?

Please help! Thank you
 

JoacRy

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There is no information on what diseases/illnesses cause one to be excluded from having application processed.
 

rajdeep115

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I think for an average person, it should be okay. If you think you have some disease that might fall in that category, do a google search and see if you find any similar cases.
 

forcanada

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The panel clinic did my tests for TB, HIV, and few other things which I do not remember.
 

legalfalcon

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In the medical exam, a general physical exam is conducted checking any mobility issues, eyesight, general psychological state, and general condition of internal organs.

As regards the blood work, tests are conducted for HIV, Syphilis, glucose. Urinie analysis is also done with a dipstick. A chest x-ray is done for TB. This is pretty much it.

What CIC is trying to look is for any medical condition that would cause unnecessary burden on medical setup or risk to public health. Medical conditions such as TB are a public health concern and will be a sure shot case for denial. However, if a patient has been treated or is undergoing treatment for TB, CIC could consider the case and allow upon satisfying that the disease has been cured.

When it comes to a burden on medical setup, conditions such as HIV or other similar conditions that require periodic medicines or medical care will be a ground for denial. This is not absolute and there have been cases where people have demonstrated that they will not be a burden on the health services. One of the cases that I remember is where an applicant was HIV positive. His application was denied on medical grounds. He challenged the decision in the court and demonstrated that he has private medical insurance that would cover the cost for medicines. He also had an undertaking from a non profit which assured him medicines in Canada free of cost. Based upon this the CIC's denial was turned down and he was granted PR.

But, such a case is a exception and not a norm. Small medical conditions such as hypertension, thyroid etc are not ground for inadmissibility. Challenging a denial on medical grounds is a tough battle and needs specialized lawyers and money. Its is subjective and arbitrary where there are no clear rules.
 

canuck_in_uk

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There is no specific condition/disease that will result in refusal. CIC goes by the Excessive Demand Threshold, which is currently $6387/year. If a person has a condition that will cost the health/social services more than that, they are medically inadmissible.
 

Pippin

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If you have concerns about a medical issue for yourself or family member, discuss it with your doctor. Determine the annual cost of care, communicability, short or long term condition, likely to resolve or get worse? Search "medical inadmissibility" and you will find lots of links. Check OP Manuals for official information. Good luck.
 

legalfalcon

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canuck_in_uk said:
There is no specific condition/disease that will result in refusal. CIC goes by the Excessive Demand Threshold, which is currently $6387/year. If a person has a condition that will cost the health/social services more than that, they are medically inadmissible.
Do you have a link to where you read this, or an authority to back it up. Because under the immigration law there so $ figure as you have mentioned. Moreover, it is absurd to have a dollar amount since a person who is on medication for a chronic condition may need hospitalization in the near future and that too is accounted for. I have not come across any rules or legislation with the number you have mentioned.

However, having said that I have read administrative cases where applicants have successfully challenged medical admissibility by showing private medical health insurance and charitable organizations offering them free care.
 

legalfalcon

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Check this judgment for further clarification:

Hilewitz v. Canada, [2005] 2 S.C.R. 706, 2005 SCC 57 http://scc-csc.lexum.com/scc-csc/scc-csc/en/item/2291/index.do
This judgment clearly states:

Section 19(1)(a)(ii) calls for an assessment of whether an applicant’s health would cause, or might reasonably be expected to cause excessive demands on Canada’s social services. The term “excessive demands” is inherently evaluative and comparative, and shows that medical officers must assess likely demands on social services, not mere eligibility for them. Since, without consideration of an applicant’s ability and intention to pay for social services, it is impossible to determine realistically what “demands” will be made, medical officers must necessarily take into account both medical and non‑medical factors. This requires individualized assessments. If medical officers consider the need for potential services based only on the classification of the impairment rather than on its particular manifestation, the assessment becomes generic rather than individual. It is an approach which attaches a cost assessment to the disability rather than to the individual. The clear legislative threshold is reasonable probability, not remote possibility. It should be more likely than not, based on a family’s circumstances, that the contingencies will materialize. The same analysis is applicable to the new Immigration and Refugee Protection Act . [54‑56] [58‑59]


Also see Alibey v. Canada ( Minister of Citizenship and Immigration ), 2004 FC 305, [2004] 4 F.C.R. D-3 http://reports.fja.gc.ca/eng/2004/2004fc305.html


There is no dollar figure in the law or the rules. So it is impossible to ascertain. I would strongly recommend the applicant to seek legal help prior to filing the application if (s)he suspects that (s)he or any of the family members could have a serious medical issue.

Further, I would request members on the forum to refrain from providing advice that is incorrect. We all want to help, but if you are not sure, please say so in the post. No hard feelings, just trying to help here. If I am wrong, please correct me.
 

canuck_in_uk

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legalfalcon said:
Do you have a link to where you read this, or an authority to back it up. Because under the immigration law there so $ figure as you have mentioned. Moreover, it is absurd to have a dollar amount since a person who is on medication for a chronic condition may need hospitalization in the near future and that too is accounted for. I have not come across any rules or legislation with the number you have mentioned.
Learn to Google...

CIC: http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/tools/medic/admiss/excessive.asp

The cost threshold is determined by multiplying the per capita cost of Canadian health and social services by the number of years used in the medical assessment for the individual applicant. This cost threshold is updated every year.

Effective December 1, 2014, the updated cost threshold is $6,387 per year. This figure is usually multiplied by five (unless the anticipated length of stay is shorter than five years or there is evidence that significant costs are likely to be incurred beyond that period, in which case the period is no more than 10 consecutive years). This results in the legislated threshold of $31,935.



IRPA: http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/SOR-2002-227/page-1.html#h-2

excessive demand means

(a) a demand on health services or social services for which the anticipated costs would likely exceed average Canadian per capita health services and social services costs over a period of five consecutive years immediately following the most recent medical examination required under paragraph 16(2)(b) of the Act, unless there is evidence that significant costs are likely to be incurred beyond that period, in which case the period is no more than 10 consecutive years; or

(b) a demand on health services or social services that would add to existing waiting lists and would increase the rate of mortality and morbidity in Canada as a result of an inability to provide timely services to Canadian citizens or permanent residents.


The law doesn't state a dollar amount for the very obvious reason that the cost threshold changes every year.
 

legalfalcon

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canuck_in_uk said:
Learn to Google...

CIC: http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/tools/medic/admiss/excessive.asp

The cost threshold is determined by multiplying the per capita cost of Canadian health and social services by the number of years used in the medical assessment for the individual applicant. This cost threshold is updated every year.

Effective December 1, 2014, the updated cost threshold is $6,387 per year. This figure is usually multiplied by five (unless the anticipated length of stay is shorter than five years or there is evidence that significant costs are likely to be incurred beyond that period, in which case the period is no more than 10 consecutive years). This results in the legislated threshold of $31,935.



IRPA: http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/SOR-2002-227/page-1.html#h-2

excessive demand means

(a) a demand on health services or social services for which the anticipated costs would likely exceed average Canadian per capita health services and social services costs over a period of five consecutive years immediately following the most recent medical examination required under paragraph 16(2)(b) of the Act, unless there is evidence that significant costs are likely to be incurred beyond that period, in which case the period is no more than 10 consecutive years; or

(b) a demand on health services or social services that would add to existing waiting lists and would increase the rate of mortality and morbidity in Canada as a result of an inability to provide timely services to Canadian citizens or permanent residents.


The law doesn't state a dollar amount for the very obvious reason that the cost threshold changes every year.

Thanks for sharing the link. However, what you have shared are the regulations which are subject to judicial review. It is the standards to ensure administrative fairness, fair play, and principles of natural justice. While the regulations are easy to challenge since they are made by the administrative authority and not the legislature. Having said that the law as interpreted by the courts provide a guideline to the administrative agency on how to ensure procedural fairness, which does grant arbitrary power subject to judicial review.

Here the threshold that has been made is subjective in nature and not an absolute one. The figure that you see in the regulations (which I was not aware of), has to be determined by the medical offices of the CIC and not from a foreign country as mentioned in one of the posts above. How a medical officer will determine the cost is again subjective.

In a nutshell, my point was to not rely on the regulations but the law of the land as laid down in the judgment when administrative decisions are challenged. How an applicant will show requisite funds to overcome the excessive demand threshold is subject to what CIC determines fit. In the link that you shared, <http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/tools/medic/admiss/excessive.asp>, there are two cases mentioned and they have relied upon the dictum of the cases I cited. Moreover form the same web page shared by you it states:

The case law has developed separate requirements for excessive demand on health services and excessive demand on social services. Since most health services are publicly funded, without any cost-recovery mechanism, the courts have held that an applicant’s willingness or ability to pay is not a relevant factor. In Deol v. Canada (M.C.I.) 2002 FCA 271, the Federal Court of Appeal said:

“The Minister has no power to admit a person as a permanent resident on the condition that the person either does not make a claim on the health insurance plans in the provinces or promises to reimburse the costs of any services required.”

However, in Companioni v. Canada (M.C.I.) 2009 FC 1315, and later cases, the Federal Court allowed some flexibility in assessing one’s ability to defray the costs of out-patient medication, such as HIV anti retroviral therapy. As such, medical officers have to make an individualized assessment of the medical file, the required out-patient medication, the availability of private insurance and/or the ability to opt-out of publicly-funded drug plans in the province or territory where the applicant intends to reside.


Based upon the above and in light of the supreme court rulings on the same point, just because an applicant has more than x amount will not entitle him to be admissible in case he or any of his family member is suffering from a medical condition which CIC believes would put an excessive demand on health and social service.

I will reiterate what I said in one of my posts above,
"I would strongly recommend the applicant to seek legal help prior to filing the application if (s)he suspects that (s)he or any of the family members could have a serious medical issue."
.

I stand corrected with regard to the amount that you have found in the regulations, and thanks for providing the link.
 

canuck_in_uk

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legalfalcon said:
Thanks for sharing the link. However, what you have shared are the regulations which are subject to judicial review. It is the standards to ensure administrative fairness, fair play, and principles of natural justice. While the regulations are easy to challenge since they are made by the administrative authority and not the legislature. Having said that the law as interpreted by the courts provide a guideline to the administrative agency on how to ensure procedural fairness, which does grant arbitrary power subject to judicial review.

Here the threshold that has been made is subjective in nature and not an absolute one. The figure that you see in the regulations (which I was not aware of), has to be determined by the medical offices of the CIC and not from a foreign country as mentioned in one of the posts above. How a medical officer will determine the cost is again subjective.
Nearly everything is subject to judicial review if a person so wishes to go that route. The regulations and Excessive Demand Threshold are the basis of how CIC determines medical inadmissibility.

Yes, the methods used to determine whether a particular person will exceed the Excessive Demand Threshold are subjective, hence why many people have successfully appealed medical inadmissibility through a variety of measures.

Anytime someone on the forum is having medical inadmissibility issues, I refer them to forum member computergeek. He is incredibly knowledgeable about the entire process.
 

mira_johnson

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Thank you for all of your comments, facts, opinions and advice. Computergeek- if you have anything to add- we are awaiting your reply!
The issue all lies in "risk". If statistically speaking one is more likely to have certain health issues than others outside the risk-zone, but no health issues are present at the moment, I wonder what category they would use. Currently, you are not using public health services more than the average but you may be monitoring your diet more closely as a preventive measure.

It is good to know that they may assess individually rather than categorizing and generalizing based on some medical code, because many may find themselves in a "grey-zone".
 

canuck_in_uk

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mira_johnson said:
Thank you for all of your comments, facts, opinions and advice. Computergeek- if you have anything to add- we are awaiting your reply!
The issue all lies in "risk". If statistically speaking one is more likely to have certain health issues than others outside the risk-zone, but no health issues are present at the moment, I wonder what category they would use. Currently, you are not using public health services more than the average but you may be monitoring your diet more closely as a preventive measure.

It is good to know that they may assess individually rather than categorizing and generalizing based on some medical code, because many may find themselves in a "grey-zone".
If you want comutergeek's advice, you would need to message him.

CIC doesn't look at whether a person is statistically more likely to have a condition in future.
 

mira_johnson

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What I mean is that it is a health condition with a name, that has close to no symptoms but run a higher risk for other health issues.

It is just frustrating to be putting down so much work, stress and tears on the process and then in the end, get thrown out because of some minor health issue. Perhaps I should find an immigration lawyer and ask for their personal advice. I will message this comutergeek then. Thanks