Advice on Leaving Canada for the Christmas Holiday

[4w7F]

Hello, everyone. Thank you for giving me some advice on this matter.

I am an American citizen and Canadian permanent resident. In the past five years, I've been in Canada for 400 days out of the required 730 days. My goal is to meet the residency obligation as soon as possible.

I am currently in Canada and live permanently in Ontario. I have a year lease on a condo, a current and valid OHIP card issued to me a few weeks ago, an Ontario driver's license, and a Verification of Status form from the Canadian federal government, issued in 2022, that confirms my permanent resident status.

My permanent resident card expired more than a decade ago, so over the years, I've been leaving and entering Canada using my American passport. As you know, American citizens are eTA-exempt, even when traveling by commercial carrier.

This year has been the first time that I am truly living in Canada. I have signed a lease, gotten OHIP, have a Canadian job and provincial driver's license, and will file Canadian taxes for this year. My other visits during the last five years, while sometimes around a month at a time, were for touristic purposes (to visit and help family).

Here is where I am asking kindly for your advice: should I risk visiting my family in the United States for Christmas this year? My fear is obviously that the Canadian border agent will begin the process of revoking my permanent resident status upon my return.

In my experience, the Canadian border agents are less concerned with American citizens who are also Canadian permanent residents. The one or two times over the past decade that a Canadian border agent has learned that I am a Canadian permanent resident, he or she has simply allowed me through despite me having never met the residency obligation.

What would you do in my situation? Would you visit family for Christmas?

Thank you most sincerely.

 

[scylla]

Hello, everyone. Thank you for giving me some advice on this matter.

I am an American citizen and Canadian permanent resident. In the past five years, I've been in Canada for 400 days out of the required 730 days. My goal is to meet the residency obligation as soon as possible.

I am currently in Canada and live permanently in Ontario. I have a year lease on a condo, a current and valid OHIP card issued to me a few weeks ago, an Ontario driver's license, and a Verification of Status form from the Canadian federal government, issued in 2022, that confirms my permanent resident status.

My permanent resident card expired more than a decade ago, so over the years, I've been leaving and entering Canada using my American passport. As you know, American citizens are eTA-exempt, even when traveling by commercial carrier.

This year has been the first time that I am truly living in Canada. I have signed a lease, gotten OHIP, have a Canadian job and provincial driver's license, and will file Canadian taxes for this year. My other visits during the last five years, while sometimes around a month at a time, were for touristic purposes (to visit and help family).

Here is where I am asking kindly for your advice: should I risk visiting my family in the United States for Christmas this year? My fear is obviously that the Canadian border agent will begin the process of revoking my permanent resident status upon my return.

In my experience, the Canadian border agents are less concerned with American citizens who are also Canadian permanent residents. The one or two times over the past decade that a Canadian border agent has learned that I am a Canadian permanent resident, he or she has simply allowed me through despite me having never met the residency obligation.

What would you do in my situation? Would you visit family for Christmas?

Thank you most sincerely.

No one can make this decision for you.

There's always going to be some risk of being reported if you leave and re-enter. Agreed the chances of being reported are much lower for Americans.

This really need to be your decision based on your priorities and risk tolerance.

 

[4w7F]

You have answered this exactly correctly. I think deep inside I have known that but still wanted to ask anyway. Thank you. I wish everyone happy holidays.

 

[Ponga]

My permanent resident card expired more than a decade ago, so over the years, I've been leaving and entering Canada using my American passport. As you know, American citizens are eTA-exempt, even when traveling by commercial carrier.

1. I am currently in Canada and live permanently in Ontario. I have a year lease on a condo, a current and valid OHIP card issued to me a few weeks ago, an Ontario driver's license, and a Verification of Status form from the Canadian federal government, issued in 2022, that confirms my permanent resident status.

2. My permanent resident card expired more than a decade ago, so over the years, I've been leaving and entering Canada using my American passport. As you know, American citizens are eTA-exempt, even when traveling by commercial carrier.


3. In my experience, the Canadian border agents are less concerned with American citizens who are also Canadian permanent residents. The one or two times over the past decade that a Canadian border agent has learned that I am a Canadian permanent resident, he or she has simply allowed me through despite me having never met the residency obligation.

[/QUOTE]
1. Your VoS issued in 2022, confirms that your PR status at that time was corroborated. Since the date of the VoS was issued, how many days (full or partial) have you been in Canada as of today?
Hopefully, you have been keeping an accurate log of dates when you exited/entered Canada because it's imperative! Many U.S. citizens that are PRs assume that CBSA has tracked all of their exits from Canada, which is NOT true.

2. There have been cases, albeit rare, apparently, where a U.S. passport holder that is also a PR of Canada has been asked to produce a valid PR Card to board a commercial flight to Canada. So far as I know there is nothing `official' in the IATA, or ICAO regarding the issue that U.S. citizens are exempt from showing a valid PR Card if requested; it may be some sort of bilateral agreement, but I've not [yet] found that to be true. Hopefully, someone will provide solid evidence that this is the case.

It would seem that there `is' such an agreement since even IRCC's language previously stated that without a valid PRC, "you may not be able to travel via a commercial carrier" (or similar language) which would seem to indicate that a U.S citizen (with a valid passport) would be such an exception.

3. Then how did you obtain the VoS in 2022 if you have never met the R.O.?

It's a tough decision to say the least, but if you decide to go I wish you all the best for a painless return to Canada!

 

[armoured]

3. Then how did you obtain the VoS in 2022 if you have never met the R.O.?

I may be mistaken, but my understanding is that the VoS basically just repeats the information in the COPR (and other immigration records too).

https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/application/application-forms-guides/guide-5545-application-verification-status-vos-replacement-immigration-document.html#5545E2

It is not, therefore, a verification of current status, but an historical record.

So there's no factual or implicit requirement that someone obtaining one have met the RO. I don't think the VoS shows anythign about the RO, either - nor (in theory) whether the person lost the PR status in between.

It should, therefore, be useful primarily like a COPR would - useful for entering from abroad, just like a COPR, in that it allows CBSA to look the person up and identify them as a PR (or not-a-PR if revoked). Or for getting certain government services - as with an old COPR.

Whether service ontario accepted it for purposes of showing currently a PR, don't know. In theory they shouldn't accept it any more than they'd accept an old COPR. What they do in practice? Well, I no longer search for consistency between provinces/agencies/departments on this stuff.

 

[Ponga]

I may be mistaken, but my understanding is that the VoS basically just repeats the information in the COPR (and other immigration records too).

https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/application/application-forms-guides/guide-5545-application-verification-status-vos-replacement-immigration-document.html#5545E2

It is not, therefore, a verification of current status, but an historical record.

Clearly that is yet another area where IRCC could improve, if it does not verify status on the day it is issued. IMHO, If it simply parrots the info on CoPR, call it something else.

Seems to me the OP's expired PR Card would be just as useful.

 

[canuck78]

Clearly that is yet another area where IRCC could improve, if it does not verify status on the day it is issued. IMHO, If it simply parrots the info on CoPR, call it something else.

Seems to me the OP's expired PR Card would be just as useful.

Assume it was likely done for OHIP.

 

[armoured]

Assume it was likely done for OHIP.

Possibly. Why OHIP would accept a VoS, which just repeats data from the COPR, even more so one issued in 2022 and accept it in 2024 and not accept an expired PR card - well, like I said, I no longer particularly expect any consistency in these things.

I think the bigger failing in here is why government cannot simply actually provide a document that says so-and-so was granted PR status on [date] and confirm that it was never revoked. They don't need to issue any info on residency obligation status in order to do so, nor go so far as to issue a PR card (if they don't wish to). It causes needless issues for no benefit I can determine.

[Side note, I'd like to see someday what a VoS actually looks like for a PR. Maybe I'll find a reason for a family member to apply for one.]

 

[canuck78]

Possibly. Why OHIP would accept a VoS, which just repeats data from the COPR, even more so one issued in 2022 and accept it in 2024 and not accept an expired PR card - well, like I said, I no longer particularly expect any consistency in these things.

I think the bigger failing in here is why government cannot simply actually provide a document that says so-and-so was granted PR status on [date] and confirm that it was never revoked. They don't need to issue any info on residency obligation status in order to do so, nor go so far as to issue a PR card (if they don't wish to). It causes needless issues for no benefit I can determine.

[Side note, I'd like to see someday what a VoS actually looks like for a PR. Maybe I'll find a reason for a family member to apply for one.]

Agree no consistency but our government is full of inconsistencies and loopholes.

 

[armoured]

Agree no consistency but our government is full of inconsistencies and loopholes.

Yes. However, I would like to know if having a recently-issued VoS tends to be accepted, shall we say 'more readily', by some provinces/authorities than an old COPR. Even if that's inconsistent, it would be very useful information for some PRs to know.

Also would be interested if a query for a VoS for a PR who has had their PR revoked or renounced would show (in the doc provided) that the person is no longer a PR.

 

[Copingwithlife]

Agree no consistency but our government is full of inconsistencies and loopholes.

That’s putting it politely