+1(514) 937-9445 or Toll-free (Canada & US) +1 (888) 947-9445

Advice I received on crossing into Canada by land

Shubhrak

Member
Jun 20, 2015
12
0
Hi all,

I met an immigration lawyer specializing in Canada yesterday, to clear my doubts about crossing into Canada using an expired PR Card. (My PR Card expired in 2013 and I have not fulfilled my residency obligations.) This is what she said:

1. It is not true that the border officials at Niagara have no authority to keep you from entering Canada. She said hundreds of people are being denied entry through the bridge, and the Canada Border Services Agency has now been given more teeth.
2. It might be better to try and cross over into Vancouver from the US, since officers there are "cooler." She cited her own example--recently, an officer waved her into Vancouver only upon showing her driving license, and did not ask for PR Card at all. Having said that, she still felt that my chances are bleak.
3. It does matter that my PR Card expired in 2013: it has been way too long, and she feels they will grill me severely and probably deny me entry.

I thought to share this with you, so it might help/inform others in my situation.
 

zardoz

VIP Member
Feb 2, 2013
13,298
2,167
Canada
Category........
FAM
Visa Office......
London
App. Filed.......
16-02-2013
VISA ISSUED...
31-07-2013
LANDED..........
09-11-2013
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/manuals/enf/enf04-eng.pdf
11.1. Rights of permanent residents A27(1) provides that a permanent resident has the right to enter and remain in Canada subject to the provisions of the Act. A19(2) requires an officer to allow a permanent resident to enter Canada if satisfied following an examination on their entry that they have that status. Permanent residents who are under enforcement proceedings keep their permanent resident status and retain the right to enter Canada until a final determination of their loss of status has been made.
 

zardoz

VIP Member
Feb 2, 2013
13,298
2,167
Canada
Category........
FAM
Visa Office......
London
App. Filed.......
16-02-2013
VISA ISSUED...
31-07-2013
LANDED..........
09-11-2013
http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/I-2.5/page-11.html#h-17
Right of entry of citizens and Indians

19. (1) Every Canadian citizen within the meaning of the Citizenship Act and every person registered as an Indian under the Indian Act has the right to enter and remain in Canada in accordance with this Act, and an officer shall allow the person to enter Canada if satisfied following an examination on their entry that the person is a citizen or registered Indian.

Right of entry of permanent residents

(2) An officer shall allow a permanent resident to enter Canada if satisfied following an examination on their entry that they have that status.
Get a new lawyer.
 

Jerry1410

Star Member
May 17, 2015
81
2
I think by the term 'Indians' they mean the Indians of ethnic origin in Canada itself and not the Indian Citizen from the Indian Subcontinent which is next to Pakistan and China.
 

keesio

VIP Member
May 16, 2012
4,795
396
Toronto, Ontario
Category........
Visa Office......
CPP-O
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
09-01-2013
Doc's Request.
09-07-2013
AOR Received.
30-01-2013
File Transfer...
11-02-2013
Med's Done....
02-01-2013
Interview........
waived
Passport Req..
12-07-2013
VISA ISSUED...
15-08-2013
LANDED..........
14-10-2013
Jerry1410 said:
I think by the term 'Indians' they mean the Indians of ethnic origin in Canada itself and not the Indian Citizen from the Indian Subcontinent which is next to Pakistan and China.
Zardoz know this. He was referring the latter part of his quote, which is relevant:

Right of entry of citizens and Indians

19. (1) Every Canadian citizen within the meaning of the Citizenship Act and every person registered as an Indian under the Indian Act has the right to enter and remain in Canada in accordance with this Act, and an officer shall allow the person to enter Canada if satisfied following an examination on their entry that the person is a citizen or registered Indian.

Right of entry of permanent residents

(2) An officer shall allow a permanent resident to enter Canada if satisfied following an examination on their entry that they have that status.
 

keesio

VIP Member
May 16, 2012
4,795
396
Toronto, Ontario
Category........
Visa Office......
CPP-O
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
09-01-2013
Doc's Request.
09-07-2013
AOR Received.
30-01-2013
File Transfer...
11-02-2013
Med's Done....
02-01-2013
Interview........
waived
Passport Req..
12-07-2013
VISA ISSUED...
15-08-2013
LANDED..........
14-10-2013
Shubhrak said:
3. It does matter that my PR Card expired in 2013: it has been way too long, and she feels they will grill me severely and probably deny me entry.
They may grill you severely... but they have to let you in once they know you have PR status. They don't have the power to take your PR status away. They can report you to CIC and request that they investigate you and tell them they think you violated your RO... but they still have to let you in.
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,432
3,176
Shubhrak said:
Hi all,

I met an immigration lawyer specializing in Canada yesterday, to clear my doubts about crossing into Canada using an expired PR Card. (My PR Card expired in 2013 and I have not fulfilled my residency obligations.) This is what she said:

1. It is not true that the border officials at Niagara have no authority to keep you from entering Canada. She said hundreds of people are being denied entry through the bridge, and the Canada Border Services Agency has now been given more teeth.
2. It might be better to try and cross over into Vancouver from the US, since officers there are "cooler." She cited her own example--recently, an officer waved her into Vancouver only upon showing her driving license, and did not ask for PR Card at all. Having said that, she still felt that my chances are bleak.
3. It does matter that my PR Card expired in 2013: it has been way too long, and she feels they will grill me severely and probably deny me entry.

I thought to share this with you, so it might help/inform others in my situation.
I tend to agree with zardoz that there is something at least a bit off regarding this "immigration lawyer specializing in Canada."

Note: zardoz was citing the enforcement manual and the relevant statutory provision (IRPA section 19) relative to what those say regarding individuals with Permanent Resident status.

A PR who establishes identity and status at the POE is entitled to enter Canada. Proof of identity will, in most cases, establish status as well, assuming the proof of identity is a passport, which will connect the traveler to the traveler's CIC client number. Moreover, the expired PR card will likewise link the individual to the individual's status in the system.

It is undoubtedly correct that many of the POE are turning back travelers. BUT NOT Canadian PRs.

I do not know if there is a comparable offence in Canada, but in the U.S. it is explicitly a criminal offence to choose a particular border crossing expecting it to be easier or such. At the least, if the Canadian border officers suspect POE shopping, that is almost certain to raise questions and make the encounter far more difficult. It is, in any event, my sense is that at the least the kind of advice offered by this lawyer was unethical for a lawyer.

Of course it matters that the PR card expired, and how long ago it expired. That is a big clue as to whether or not an individual PR has been living in Canada. Indeed, the PR who is abroad and does not have a currently valid PR card in possession, is presumed to not have valid status. Thus, when applying for a PR Travel Document from abroad, it is critical to document and in many cases submit sufficient evidence to prove compliance with the PR Residency Obligation.

This is why those PRs abroad with an expired PR card and either in breach of the PR RO or cutting it close to being in breach, will often attempt to travel to Canada via the U.S., using private transportation to approach the border. At the border, the PR is no longer "abroad," and all the PR has to do is establish identity sufficient to also show status, and that will entitle the PR entry into Canada.

But it will not guarantee there will be no 44(1) Report or Removal Order issued.

And these days, a PR in breach of the PR RO and whose PR card is expired, particularly if expired for a significant amount of time, is indeed at high risk for being thoroughly scrutinized (grilled severely) when attempting to enter Canada . . . regardless of which POE is used.

But they cannot deny entry. They can issue the 44(1) Report (which in the circumstances you describe, seems likely unless you have strong H&C reasons for not returning to Canada sooner) and immediately also issue the Removal Order, if they conclude you are in breach of the PR RO. The Removal Order is NOT enforceable at that stage, not for 30 days, and not for longer than that if you appeal.

By the way, the trend is steadily toward both more teeth and stricter enforcement at the border. Which is why the risk is so high there will be a residency examination and, for the PR clearly in breach of the PR RO, the issuance of the 44{1) Report (of inadmissibility due to breach of PR RO) followed by the Removal Order. But the PR still gets into Canada. A PR is, after all, a Canadian (IRPA distinguishes Canadian citizens and Canadian PRs apart from all others, who are Foreign Nationals).


and ditto keesio as well.
 

CanV

Champion Member
Apr 30, 2012
1,237
156
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
Shubhrak said:
Hi all,

I met an immigration lawyer specializing in Canada yesterday, to clear my doubts about crossing into Canada using an expired PR Card. (My PR Card expired in 2013 and I have not fulfilled my residency obligations.) This is what she said:

1. It is not true that the border officials at Niagara have no authority to keep you from entering Canada. She said hundreds of people are being denied entry through the bridge, and the Canada Border Services Agency has now been given more teeth.
2. It might be better to try and cross over into Vancouver from the US, since officers there are "cooler." She cited her own example--recently, an officer waved her into Vancouver only upon showing her driving license, and did not ask for PR Card at all. Having said that, she still felt that my chances are bleak.
3. It does matter that my PR Card expired in 2013: it has been way too long, and she feels they will grill me severely and probably deny me entry.

I thought to share this with you, so it might help/inform others in my situation.
1. 100% wrong. They do NOT have the authority to deny you entry when a determination has not been made in your PR status.
 

PMM

VIP Member
Jun 30, 2005
25,494
1,950
Hi


CanV said:
1. 100% wrong. They do NOT have the authority to deny you entry when a determination has not been made in your PR status.
1. Actually at the border, if they determine that you have not met your residency requirements, they can and will report you and a removal order issued.
2. You will be admitted for 30 days to appeal to the Immigration Appeal Division, if you don't appeal, then the removal order becomes effective.
3. If you appeal, the IAD will determine whether you have lost your PR status, and if there are any H.& C. grounds to allow you to retain it.
 

Tinaturner

Full Member
Apr 30, 2015
38
0
Hello,

How can someone know if he still has his PR Status after his PR is expired ? is it possible to find out about the PR status before reaching any Canadian border ?

Thanks for answering my question

Regards
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,432
3,176
Tinaturner said:
Hello,

How can someone know if he still has his PR Status after his PR is expired ? is it possible to find out about the PR status before reaching any Canadian border ?

Thanks for answering my question

Regards
It is easy to know if you still have PR status: you do unless
-- you applied for a PR Travel Document and that was denied
-- you were issued a Removal Order
-- you surrendered PR status

Whether or not a PR whose PR card is expired will be issued a PR Travel Document or not issued a Removal Order upon seeking to return to Canada depends on whether or not the PR is in breach of the PR Residency Obligation . . . recognizing that the burden of proof, that the PR is in compliance with the PR Residency Obligation, is on the PR.