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A (possibly) plausible theory about the number of people in the pool and scores

Michau

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Feb 18, 2015
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OK, so far we have no official statistics from CIC about the pool, and we only know two contradictory facts:

* The number of people in the Excel suggests that there should be no more than a few thousand people in the pool, based on correlations between the number of people in Excels for previous programs and actual number of applicants.

* There were already more than 1500 people drawn with scores higher than 820, which suggests that there should be dozens of thousands of people in the pool.

What can we deduce from this? Here is my theory:

1. There are indeed only a few thousand people in the pool.

I find it highly unlikely that the Excel for the previous year contained 20% of the applicants, and yet somehow magically the Excel for Express Entrly would contain only 1% or 2%. Maybe 15%, maybe 10% but no way it would be only 2%.

I also find it highly unlikely that 30000 or 40000 people would suddenly rush to create an Express Entry profile in the first month. Possible, yes, but unlikely.

So how do we reconcile it with the results of the two draws? Here's my explanation:

2. There is an overrepresentation of people with > 600 score in the pool.

How did this overrepresentation happen? I suggest that it was created by many people wrongly ticking the box "I have a job offer" and getting 600 points, when in fact they don't have a LMIA.

There were already several threads on this forum by people who made this mistake. I presume that many more people may have done this. Maybe they are on PGWP or some other temporary work permit, and they assumed "I have a job already, so I will tick this box, right?". Or worse still, maybe some immigration agency created / helped create their profiles and the agency employee ticked this checkbox (I think this is even more likely because, as I read this forum, I clearly see that many immigration agencies are really clueless).

Also, remember that there were people with scores 820-880 in the second draw. That means that they have only 220-280 points for other factors and this will probably mean that they speak poor English. So maybe they just misunderstood this option in the profile and ticked it wrongly.

If my theory is correct, these people will soon start declining their ITAs as they realize they need to submit a LMIA which they don't have, or they will try to go on and get in trouble with the CIC. The CIC may get angry as well at the number of people which seem to be "misrepresenting" themselves - hard to predict their reaction.

Another reason for this overrepresentation might be some province entering its nominations, but I don't think any province could act that fast and issue that many EE nominations in a month. So I say that the above reason explains the results of the two draws so far.

What do you think?
 

Hassan.Fahm

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MICHAU

Your analysis seems pretty logical. But this might includes PnP for business migrant who not necessarily speak good english. However, there are definitely some applicants who have made mistakes in submitting their applications and will definitely get a declination from the authorities.
 

Michau

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Feb 18, 2015
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PnP for business immigrants would not go through Express Entry. Express Entry is only for skilled workers. And I guess business immigrants would rather speak better English (on average) than people in the Skilled Trades category :)

But there was some post already by a person who got BC PNP for EE in less than a month. So I guess some provincial nominations start showing up already, but not much of them. Therefore I think it's mostly people wrongly ticking the "Job offer" box.
 

niravk

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Jul 16, 2011
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Hi Michau

I was trying to interpret what you earlier said -

I find it highly unlikely that the Excel for the previous year contained 20% of the applicants, and yet somehow magically the Excel for Express Entrly would contain only 1% or 2%. Maybe 15%, maybe 10% but no way it would be only 2%

Excel for previous year meant FSW 2014
What does 20% of applications meant....??

If you can elaborate in detail and share those worksheets or links so that I can analyse it...would be highly grateful to you..
 

fl_pie

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Michau said:
OK, so far we have no official statistics from CIC about the pool, and we only know two contradictory facts:

* The number of people in the Excel suggests that there should be no more than a few thousand people in the pool, based on correlations between the number of people in Excels for previous programs and actual number of applicants.

* There were already more than 1500 people drawn with scores higher than 820, which suggests that there should be dozens of thousands of people in the pool.

What can we deduce from this? Here is my theory:

1. There are indeed only a few thousand people in the pool.

I find it highly unlikely that the Excel for the previous year contained 20% of the applicants, and yet somehow magically the Excel for Express Entrly would contain only 1% or 2%. Maybe 15%, maybe 10% but no way it would be only 2%.

I also find it highly unlikely that 30000 or 40000 people would suddenly rush to create an Express Entry profile in the first month. Possible, yes, but unlikely.

So how do we reconcile it with the results of the two draws? Here's my explanation:

2. There is an overrepresentation of people with > 600 score in the pool.

How did this overrepresentation happen? I suggest that it was created by many people wrongly ticking the box "I have a job offer" and getting 600 points, when in fact they don't have a LMIA.

There were already several threads on this forum by people who made this mistake. I presume that many more people may have done this. Maybe they are on PGWP or some other temporary work permit, and they assumed "I have a job already, so I will tick this box, right?". Or worse still, maybe some immigration agency created / helped create their profiles and the agency employee ticked this checkbox (I think this is even more likely because, as I read this forum, I clearly see that many immigration agencies are really clueless).

Also, remember that there were people with scores 820-880 in the second draw. That means that they have only 220-280 points for other factors and this will probably mean that they speak poor English. So maybe they just misunderstood this option in the profile and ticked it wrongly.

If my theory is correct, these people will soon start declining their ITAs as they realize they need to submit a LMIA which they don't have, or they will try to go on and get in trouble with the CIC. The CIC may get angry as well at the number of people which seem to be "misrepresenting" themselves - hard to predict their reaction.

Another reason for this overrepresentation might be some province entering its nominations, but I don't think any province could act that fast and issue that many EE nominations in a month. So I say that the above reason explains the results of the two draws so far.

What do you think?
Interesting analysis, +1. A couple of additions:
1. FSW 2014 spreadsheet had just around 600 entries by the end of May 2014, if I'm not mistaken. I think that it only grew to representing 20% of the total number of applications by the end of the year, and probably had a much lower percentage of all the applicants in its first 2-3 months.
2. January would probably have the highest amount of applications in all the year (at least, according to FSW 2014 spreadsheet, May, the first intake month, had the largest amount of applicants of any month in 2014; I assume 2015's distribution will be the same).
 

Michau

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Feb 18, 2015
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I think that with Express Entry there will be smaller difference between January and other months than it was between May and other months in 2014, because in EE there is no priority for people who applied first. But that remains to be seen.
 

astro313

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Oct 10, 2014
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Regarding the candidates with 820-860 points, it's not necessarily true that they have poor English. They know that having a job offer with LMIA will add 600 points to them so most probably will not do their ECA (because is not mandatory) and they do not get a lot of points in CRS (core + transferable) points.
 

Michau

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Feb 18, 2015
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Yes, that is possible, but that alone does not explain why there is so many of them. So I suggest that beside a number of people who had LMIA and therefore did not bother paying for ECA, there is also a considerable number of people who got 600 points by mistake, and they made this mistake possibly because of their poor English.

So you would have two kinds of people in the 820-880 range:

1. Those who had LMIA and did not need ECA. They presumably can speak good English and have higher education, it's just they don't need to show it in their EE profile.
2. Those who did not have LMIA but ticked the box that they have it. It's possible that they don't speak good English and that's why they made this mistake.
 

chaos123456

Star Member
Feb 14, 2015
60
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FYI, when you pick "I have a job offer", the system will then ask if your job has LMIA and you will need to provide the LMIA number. So unless you intentionally try to bypass the system, picking "I have a job offer" won't give you 600 points
 

AAA2133

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astro313 said:
Regarding the candidates with 820-860 points, it's not necessarily true that they have poor English. They know that having a job offer with LMIA will add 600 points to them so most probably will not do their ECA (because is not mandatory) and they do not get a lot of points in CRS (core + transferable) points.
True
 

AndreasChen

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Dec 6, 2014
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Michau said:
OK, so far we have no official statistics from CIC about the pool, and we only know two contradictory facts:

* The number of people in the Excel suggests that there should be no more than a few thousand people in the pool, based on correlations between the number of people in Excels for previous programs and actual number of applicants.

* There were already more than 1500 people drawn with scores higher than 820, which suggests that there should be dozens of thousands of people in the pool.

What can we deduce from this? Here is my theory:

1. There are indeed only a few thousand people in the pool.

I find it highly unlikely that the Excel for the previous year contained 20% of the applicants, and yet somehow magically the Excel for Express Entrly would contain only 1% or 2%. Maybe 15%, maybe 10% but no way it would be only 2%.

I also find it highly unlikely that 30000 or 40000 people would suddenly rush to create an Express Entry profile in the first month. Possible, yes, but unlikely.

So how do we reconcile it with the results of the two draws? Here's my explanation:

2. There is an overrepresentation of people with > 600 score in the pool.

How did this overrepresentation happen? I suggest that it was created by many people wrongly ticking the box "I have a job offer" and getting 600 points, when in fact they don't have a LMIA.

There were already several threads on this forum by people who made this mistake. I presume that many more people may have done this. Maybe they are on PGWP or some other temporary work permit, and they assumed "I have a job already, so I will tick this box, right?". Or worse still, maybe some immigration agency created / helped create their profiles and the agency employee ticked this checkbox (I think this is even more likely because, as I read this forum, I clearly see that many immigration agencies are really clueless).

Also, remember that there were people with scores 820-880 in the second draw. That means that they have only 220-280 points for other factors and this will probably mean that they speak poor English. So maybe they just misunderstood this option in the profile and ticked it wrongly.

If my theory is correct, these people will soon start declining their ITAs as they realize they need to submit a LMIA which they don't have, or they will try to go on and get in trouble with the CIC. The CIC may get angry as well at the number of people which seem to be "misrepresenting" themselves - hard to predict their reaction.

Another reason for this overrepresentation might be some province entering its nominations, but I don't think any province could act that fast and issue that many EE nominations in a month. So I say that the above reason explains the results of the two draws so far.

What do you think?
This is one out of a million reasons why that SS is bull***t. However truth hurts feelings and you will be tagged as nonsense eventually. Many people on this forum are too subjective to be respected, therefore talking to them is a waste of time.
 

fl_pie

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AndreasChen said:
This is one out of a million reasons why that SS is bull***t. However truth hurts feelings and you will be tagged as nonsense eventually. Many people on this forum are too subjective to be respected, therefore talking to them is a waste of time.
Isn't bull***t a bit too strong a word? The sample may be not very representative, but the situation should improve as more people add themselves to the spreadsheet. Moreover, it is much better than nothing. CIC doesn't give any useful statistics at all, and I won't expect it to change, either.
 

Auone

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Interesting analysis, might I add something here: About the point related to job offer, you don't get 600 points if you tick that box. You get points if you Click Yes to the question about positive LMIA being issued. I think there is lesser room for error with that. There might be some error, but I don't expect this to be a significant factor in the total issued ITAs thus far.
 

sarmadnadeem

Full Member
Jan 25, 2015
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astro313 said:
Regarding the candidates with 820-860 points, it's not necessarily true that they have poor English. They know that having a job offer with LMIA will add 600 points to them so most probably will not do their ECA (because is not mandatory) and they do not get a lot of points in CRS (core + transferable) points.
Absolutely right! Most of the guys having high score through LMIA (600 score) would not bother for ECA or other factors.
 

curious_123

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Jun 19, 2014
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Can any one help me out to find out number of possible PNP that can come in EE?

sinp =1000
Nova Scotia=350
Manitoba=500
Alverta=0
British Columbia = Nothing defined
Ontario= Not defined

so based on this may be there will be hardly 5000 people who will enter the EE. Am I correct? I do not know more information about other province.Please feel to add other province and give your analysis.