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Criminal offence affect citizenship (urgent )

Dreamlad

Champion Member
Jan 11, 2016
1,266
471
Category........
FSW
Visa Office......
Ottawa
NOC Code......
2171
AOR Received.
08-04-2017
Med's Done....
23-06-2017
Exactly i was never on welfare before until now i have to live since i ended up in street . This sad story happened to me in montreal so i quit quebec in case she wants to put me in more trouble while waiting to attend court
Welfare doesn't affect your application. It's normal to be stressed out but don't make yourself look like you've done something wrong. I also got criminal harassment warning. So what? In worst scenario I go back to China. Life can restart anywhere. Eventually we all die so there's nothing really to lose. Tighten up!
 

Dreamlad

Champion Member
Jan 11, 2016
1,266
471
Category........
FSW
Visa Office......
Ottawa
NOC Code......
2171
AOR Received.
08-04-2017
Med's Done....
23-06-2017
Exactly i was never on welfare before until now i have to live since i ended up in street . This sad story happened to me in montreal so i quit quebec in case she wants to put me in more trouble while waiting to attend court
Just remember you're not alone in this. Human suffering is pretty much the same eveywhere let alone in North America.
 

amazigh-agnostic

Star Member
Nov 6, 2020
82
11
34
Welfare doesn't affect your application. It's normal to be stressed out but don't make yourself look like you've done something wrong. I also got criminal harassment warning. So what? In worst scenario I go back to China. Life can restart anywhere. Eventually we all die so there's nothing really to lose. Tighten up!
Yes thank you . You think they will cancel my citizenship application and keep my pr .
i hope not i want you to be happy you deserve it . Thanks to you i feel much more comfortable
Sometimes in life we come across wrong people and then stuff like that happens unfortunately life is unfair.
 

Dreamlad

Champion Member
Jan 11, 2016
1,266
471
Category........
FSW
Visa Office......
Ottawa
NOC Code......
2171
AOR Received.
08-04-2017
Med's Done....
23-06-2017
Yes thank you . You think they will cancel my citizenship application and keep my pr .
i hope not i want you to be happy you deserve it . Thanks to you i feel much more comfortable
Sometimes in life we come across wrong people and then stuff like that happens unfortunately life is unfair.
They won't cancel your application. It depends on the trial. Ask your lawyer if misdeed is an indictable offence or not. If it's not, it won't affect your application and your application will continue after trail. Also ask about the penalty for misdeed (fine or else; this relates to your PR).
 

SaskCana

Hero Member
Sep 6, 2020
297
61
Hello guys, not an expert but in my opinion you should have informed IRCC ( if you haven’t) this would go in your favour as you are not hiding anything and then they would ask police for your case, not a desired situation, it may delay your app but just consider if it’s a minor thing for IRCC and you’re thinking too much! Hope it’s not at all a big thing and you are successful in your Canadian dream.
 

amazigh-agnostic

Star Member
Nov 6, 2020
82
11
34
They won't cancel your application. It depends on the trial. Ask your lawyer if misdeed is an indictable offence or not. If it's not, it won't affect your application and your application will continue after trail. Also ask about the penalty for misdeed (fine or else; this relates to your PR).
Wow this is good news . Also you saved me a lot of money i was looking to consult an immigration lawyer. I wanna give you a big thank you also i am ready to send you money or gift . You’re such an awesome guy wish you the best in this short life as you stated above . I am currently in Toronto in case you wanna grab a drink. Love you so much
 

Dreamlad

Champion Member
Jan 11, 2016
1,266
471
Category........
FSW
Visa Office......
Ottawa
NOC Code......
2171
AOR Received.
08-04-2017
Med's Done....
23-06-2017
Wow this is good news . Also you saved me a lot of money i was looking to consult an immigration lawyer. I wanna give you a big thank you also i am ready to send you money or gift . You’re such an awesome guy wish you the best in this short life as you stated above . I am currently in Toronto in case you wanna grab a drink. Love you so much
See, it''s here:
https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/canadian-citizenship/become-canadian-citizen/eligibility/situtations-prevent-citizenship.html
https://stepstojustice.ca/questions/immigration/im-permanent-resident-charged-crime-will-i-have-leave-canada/
 

amazigh-agnostic

Star Member
Nov 6, 2020
82
11
34
Hello guys, not an expert but in my opinion you should have informed IRCC ( if you haven’t) this would go in your favour as you are not hiding anything and then they would ask police for your case, not a desired situation, it may delay your app but just consider if it’s a minor thing for IRCC and you’re thinking too much! Hope it’s not at all a big thing and you are successful in your Canadian dream.
Thank you so
Much for your warm worss you’re giving me so much hope . People like you are so very few these days bless you .
I did not inform ircc yet i didnt know i should do . So i will tomorrow
Hugs wish you same and the best
 

amazigh-agnostic

Star Member
Nov 6, 2020
82
11
34
Thanks again
Here we go i read this below and thats what the police marked in the report according to her testimony. I just hope the trial will be fair
  • threatening to harm someone or damage their property
 

Dreamlad

Champion Member
Jan 11, 2016
1,266
471
Category........
FSW
Visa Office......
Ottawa
NOC Code......
2171
AOR Received.
08-04-2017
Med's Done....
23-06-2017
Thanks again
Here we go i read this below and thats what the police marked in the report according to her testimony. I just hope the trial will be fair
  • threatening to harm someone or damage their property
I did some search on Google. I'm pretty sure your application won't be affected so just sit back and relax.
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,421
3,163
Here is my case i applied for citizenship last year unfortunately an unexpected sad event happened after a few months later i was victim of harassment and bullying by one of my roommates i was fed up after too much pressure and i knock her on her door asking her to shut her mouth i left home to go to pharmacy after i came bAck i realized the door was broken then she called police in montreal after they came in they only took her testimony and not mine of course she lied to put me in trouble so i was charged with criminal harassment which is the opposite + misdeeds ( broken door ) .
Here we go i read this below and thats what the police marked in the report according to her testimony. I just hope the trial will be fair
  • threatening to harm someone or damage their property
It appears likely YOU are OK, and at worse should not encounter a problem with your citizenship application other than some potential delays while IRCC verifies the specifics of the case.

BUT THE ODDS ARE NOT WHAT MATTERS. The particular details matter. What specific offence is charged matters.

@Dreamlad might be right about the PROBABLE impact. But how this actually affects you is not about what is probable. It is about what you are specifically charged with and what actually happens in the criminal case.

It is very likely you should notify IRCC of the case, but you can consult with an immigration lawyer, one who goes over the specific charging documents in the criminal case, to get a professional opinion. The criminal defense lawyer is probably not a good source for advice about how to handle this with IRCC.

Foremost, be certain about what it is you are charged with. The criminal defense lawyer and court documents are your best source of this information.

Depending on what the charge actually is, you may want to seriously consider paying for a consultation with an immigration lawyer apart from and in addition to the criminal lawyer, because there are some big differences in how the criminal system works and how a criminal case can affect a PR. Again, it seems likely this will not be a serious case and not be much of a problem, BUT that depends on the actual charge.

For example, the offence of criminal harassment can be a serious offence. In fact, contrary to @Dreamlad assurances, if prosecuted by indictment, a conviction for criminal harassment, section 264 in the Criminal Code, constitutes serious criminality and makes a PR inadmissible, subject to Removal from Canada, EVEN IF there is no actual imprisonment imposed.

I do NOT mean to cause alarm. In particular, I doubt (based on your account of the facts) that you are going to be prosecuted for criminal harassment by indictment. But you want to be sure about this.

My guess (emphasis on it being a guess) is that you are charged with one of the assault offences, perhaps "uttering threats" which is Section 264.1 in the Criminal Code, which is specifically an offence for threatening to harm someone or damage their property. This too is a hybrid offence, so it can be prosecuted by indictment, but is far more likely the Crown will proceed summarily and the worst outcome is a conviction for a summary offence. Again, however, I do not know and in contrast YOU really do want to KNOW FOR SURE what the charge is.


Further, Longer Observations:

Right up front there is a significant discrepancy or gap in your account. The facts you describe do not fit "criminal harassment." Which is probably a good thing, because criminal harassment (Section 264 in the Criminal Code, see https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/C-46/page-35.html#h-120223 ) can be a significantly more serious case than what it sounds like (emphasis on what it "sounds like," noting what is actually charged is what matters), according to your description, which sounds more like an assault charge, and as I suggested, perhaps it is Section 264.1(1)(a) in the Criminal Code (same link), the offence of "uttering threats."

Both are hybrid offences, meaning they can be prosecuted by indictment or as a summary offence. Again, which way it goes is a critical detail. If it is indeed handled as a relatively minor case, it will likely be prosecuted as a summary offence, no serious impact. But if considered to be more serious, either of these can be prosecuted by indictment, and that can have a significant or even serious impact.

If prosecuted by indictment and it results in a conviction, even if the outcome is probation, no jail, that would constitute a prohibition for citizenship purposes. Your citizenship application would be rejected or denied, and you would have to wait at least four more years before you could be eligible again, without counting any time you are on probation toward meeting the physical presence requirement.

That does NOT seem likely. NOT at all. But again, the odds are not what matters. What matters is what you are charged with and how it is prosecuted in your individual case.

But this brings up another important distinction, and something which @Dreamlad appears to overlook.
Your PR status will only be affected if you're sentenced to 6 months imprisonment or more.
This is not entirely correct.

It is correct that if a PR is convicted of any offence and sentenced six months actual imprisonment (actually, it is "more" than six months, meaning at least six months and a day, or more; see IRPA 36(1)(a)), that would constitute serious criminality and make the PR inadmissible, subject to deportation (whether that actually happens, however, also depends on the particular details of the case and its severity).

But if a PR is convicted of an indictable offence that is punishable by imprisonment for ten years, or more, that too constitutes serious criminality EVEN IF the PR actually only gets probation. This too is 36(1)(a), which is here: https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/I-2.5/page-6.html#docCont

And that is what it also says at the "Steps to Justice" website linked by @Dreamlad, in section under heading "What is a serious crime"

This leads to the BIG DIFFERENCE between a charge of "criminal harassment," versus "uttering threats" or a simple assault. All three are hybrid offences. Some relatively minor violations are usually prosecuted as a summary offence, resulting at worst in a conviction for a summary offence, which does not constitute a citizenship prohibition.

Since all three are hybrid offences, assuming it is one of these, unless and until the case is definitively (in the court's records) being prosecuted summarily, they are indictable offences which MUST be disclosed to IRCC. Technically they constitute a prohibition which could result in the immediate denial of the citizenship application, but anecdotal reports suggest IRCC does NOT ordinarily do that, but rather (depending on the particular circumstances) will hold off further processing until there is a more definitive outcome in the criminal case. I recently discussed this in-depth here: https://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/threads/can-i-apply-for-canadian-citizenship-with-pending-ongoing-criminal-charges.758636/#post-9969721

But this leads back to the difference between "criminal harassment," versus "uttering threats" AND, a really big difference if there is a prosecution by indictment (again, this does not seem likely, but YOU need to know for sure). If prosecuted by indictment, "uttering threats" is at worst punishable by imprisonment for a maximum of five years (and it is only two years unless the threat is to cause bodily harm to a person). In contrast, if prosecuted by indictment, a conviction for "criminal harassment" is punishable by imprisonment for up to ten years, making that serious criminality . . . meaning it would not only make you ineligible for citizenship but it would also make you inadmissible and subject to deportation . . . EVEN IF there is no jail time imposed. VERY BIG DIFFERENCE.

Again, I doubt you will be prosecuted for "criminal harassment" by indictment, but again, you need to know for sure.
 

amazigh-agnostic

Star Member
Nov 6, 2020
82
11
34
It appears likely YOU are OK, and at worse should not encounter a problem with your citizenship application other than some potential delays while IRCC verifies the specifics of the case.

BUT THE ODDS ARE NOT WHAT MATTERS. The particular details matter. What specific offence is charged matters.

@Dreamlad might be right about the PROBABLE impact. But how this actually affects you is not about what is probable. It is about what you are specifically charged with and what actually happens in the criminal case.

It is very likely you should notify IRCC of the case, but you can consult with an immigration lawyer, one who goes over the specific charging documents in the criminal case, to get a professional opinion. The criminal defense lawyer is probably not a good source for advice about how to handle this with IRCC.

Foremost, be certain about what it is you are charged with. The criminal defense lawyer and court documents are your best source of this information.

Depending on what the charge actually is, you may want to seriously consider paying for a consultation with an immigration lawyer apart from and in addition to the criminal lawyer, because there are some big differences in how the criminal system works and how a criminal case can affect a PR. Again, it seems likely this will not be a serious case and not be much of a problem, BUT that depends on the actual charge.

For example, the offence of criminal harassment can be a serious offence. In fact, contrary to @Dreamlad assurances, if prosecuted by indictment, a conviction for criminal harassment, section 264 in the Criminal Code, constitutes serious criminality and makes a PR inadmissible, subject to Removal from Canada, EVEN IF there is no actual imprisonment imposed.

I do NOT mean to cause alarm. In particular, I doubt (based on your account of the facts) that you are going to be prosecuted for criminal harassment by indictment. But you want to be sure about this.

My guess (emphasis on it being a guess) is that you are charged with one of the assault offences, perhaps "uttering threats" which is Section 264.1 in the Criminal Code, which is specifically an offence for threatening to harm someone or damage their property. This too is a hybrid offence, so it can be prosecuted by indictment, but is far more likely the Crown will proceed summarily and the worst outcome is a conviction for a summary offence. Again, however, I do not know and in contrast YOU really do want to KNOW FOR SURE what the charge is.


Further, Longer Observations:

Right up front there is a significant discrepancy or gap in your account. The facts you describe do not fit "criminal harassment." Which is probably a good thing, because criminal harassment (Section 264 in the Criminal Code, see https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/C-46/page-35.html#h-120223 ) can be a significantly more serious case than what it sounds like (emphasis on what it "sounds like," noting what is actually charged is what matters), according to your description, which sounds more like an assault charge, and as I suggested, perhaps it is Section 264.1(1)(a) in the Criminal Code (same link), the offence of "uttering threats."

Both are hybrid offences, meaning they can be prosecuted by indictment or as a summary offence. Again, which way it goes is a critical detail. If it is indeed handled as a relatively minor case, it will likely be prosecuted as a summary offence, no serious impact. But if considered to be more serious, either of these can be prosecuted by indictment, and that can have a significant or even serious impact.

If prosecuted by indictment and it results in a conviction, even if the outcome is probation, no jail, that would constitute a prohibition for citizenship purposes. Your citizenship application would be rejected or denied, and you would have to wait at least four more years before you could be eligible again, without counting any time you are on probation toward meeting the physical presence requirement.

That does NOT seem likely. NOT at all. But again, the odds are not what matters. What matters is what you are charged with and how it is prosecuted in your individual case.

But this brings up another important distinction, and something which @Dreamlad appears to overlook.

This is not entirely correct.

It is correct that if a PR is convicted of any offence and sentenced six months actual imprisonment (actually, it is "more" than six months, meaning at least six months and a day, or more; see IRPA 36(1)(a)), that would constitute serious criminality and make the PR inadmissible, subject to deportation (whether that actually happens, however, also depends on the particular details of the case and its severity).

But if a PR is convicted of an indictable offence that is punishable by imprisonment for ten years, or more, that too constitutes serious criminality EVEN IF the PR actually only gets probation. This too is 36(1)(a), which is here: https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/I-2.5/page-6.html#docCont

And that is what it also says at the "Steps to Justice" website linked by @Dreamlad, in section under heading "What is a serious crime"

This leads to the BIG DIFFERENCE between a charge of "criminal harassment," versus "uttering threats" or a simple assault. All three are hybrid offences. Some relatively minor violations are usually prosecuted as a summary offence, resulting at worst in a conviction for a summary offence, which does not constitute a citizenship prohibition.

Since all three are hybrid offences, assuming it is one of these, unless and until the case is definitively (in the court's records) being prosecuted summarily, they are indictable offences which MUST be disclosed to IRCC. Technically they constitute a prohibition which could result in the immediate denial of the citizenship application, but anecdotal reports suggest IRCC does NOT ordinarily do that, but rather (depending on the particular circumstances) will hold off further processing until there is a more definitive outcome in the criminal case. I recently discussed this in-depth here: https://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/threads/can-i-apply-for-canadian-citizenship-with-pending-ongoing-criminal-charges.758636/#post-9969721

But this leads back to the difference between "criminal harassment," versus "uttering threats" AND, a really big difference if there is a prosecution by indictment (again, this does not seem likely, but YOU need to know for sure). If prosecuted by indictment, "uttering threats" is at worst punishable by imprisonment for a maximum of five years (and it is only two years unless the threat is to cause bodily harm to a person). In contrast, if prosecuted by indictment, a conviction for "criminal harassment" is punishable by imprisonment for up to ten years, making that serious criminality . . . meaning it would not only make you ineligible for citizenship but it would also make you inadmissible and subject to deportation . . . EVEN IF there is no jail time imposed. VERY BIG DIFFERENCE.

Again, I doubt you will be prosecuted for "criminal harassment" by indictment, but again, you need to know for sure.
Wow what a detailed reply thank you from the bottom of my hearti feel delighted and hopeful when i still see human beings like you .
may i ask you only one question if you dont mind but you’re not supposed to answer as you alreqdy replied with too much details and a lot of energy. In case i get 1 year probation which is more likely on mycase would that make my citizenship application canceled or just delayed ? Also i guess according to your saying it won’t impact my pr too right. Thanks my brother
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,421
3,163
Wow what a detailed reply thank you from the bottom of my hearti feel delighted and hopeful when i still see human beings like you .
may i ask you only one question if you dont mind but you’re not supposed to answer as you alreqdy replied with too much details and a lot of energy. In case i get 1 year probation which is more likely on mycase would that make my citizenship application canceled or just delayed ? Also i guess according to your saying it won’t impact my pr too right. Thanks my brother
Reminder: I am NOT an expert. I cannot give, and am not offering, personal advice.

For reliable information and advice about the criminal case itself, consult with your criminal defense lawyer.

For reliable information and advice about how the criminal case can affect your application for citizenship, and your PR status, consult with an experienced immigration lawyer.

A big part of the reason I go into such detail is to illuminate and emphasize the complexities that might be involved, and how important it is to KNOW and UNDERSTAND the DETAILS.

So, let's be clear, what I said was NOT saying this "won't impact [your] pr" let alone not be a problem for your citizenship application.

Yes, the odds are favourable. Meaning there is a good chance this will not be a problem for your citizenship application (other than some potential delays attendant non-routine processing to verify there is no prohibition) and not impact your PR status. BUT it could be more serious than that, and possibly a lot more serious than that. Moreover, if this results in a year of probation, that will likely be a problem for the citizenship application. Again, it is important for YOU to KNOW and UNDERSTAND the actual DETAILS.

As I noted, if in fact you are charged with criminal harassment and that is prosecuted by indictment, resulting in a conviction, EVEN IF there is NO JAIL time that would be serious criminality, making you inadmissible, subject to losing PR status and being deported. That's a big, serious deal.
I doubt that is what is happening, but that might be what is happening; YOU need to KNOW FOR SURE!​

And as I noted, there is a very high likelihood you are charged with a hybrid offence, regardless which particular offence it is. Any hybrid offence can be, might be, prosecuted by indictment. If you are prosecuted by indictment, and there is a conviction, that is a citizenship prohibition. That would mean your citizenship application will be denied and you will NOT be eligible for citizenship again for at least another four years.
Here too, the odds are good that is not what is happening. But it might be. You need to KNOW if this is what is happening. And if the criminal defense lawyer is saying you will likely be on probation for a year, that's a clue this could be processed more seriously than proceeding summarily. You need to KNOW, to KNOW FOR SURE, what the official charge is and whether it is being prosecuted summarily or by indictment.

The criminal defense lawyer's focus is on minimizing the negative impact on the defendant (you) in terms of the criminal justice system, keeping the defendant out of jail tending to be the priority. Which, make no mistake, is about as important as it gets, at least for anyone who does not want to be incarcerated and subject to the various collateral consequences which result from criminal convictions.

That priority in combination with a criminal defense lawyer's lack of expertise in immigration and citizenship law, however, means a PR may ALSO need the assistance of a good immigration lawyer to adequately understand the potential impact on the PR's status or a citizenship application.

If you KNOW FOR SURE the prosecution is proceeding summarily, NOT by indictment, that means your PR status is not at risk. But you really, really need to know this for sure.

And unfortunately, being put on probation is likely to be a problem for the citizenship application.

Effect of Probation:

That will be a problem for the citizenship application. Being on probation is a prohibition. This is section 22(1)(a)(i) in the Citizenship Act. See this here: https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/C-29/page-5.html#docCont

It states:
Despite anything in this Act, a person shall not be granted citizenship under subsection 5(1) . . . or take the oath of citizenship . . . (a) while the person, under any enactment in force in Canada, . . . (i) is under a probation order,

Note that question 16.1. in the application asks the applicant if they "are now . . . on probation." This is because a person on probation is NOT eligible for citizenship, because being on probation is a prohibition.

Note that the applicant is required to notify IRCC if the information provided in the application changes (and in signing the application you made an affirmation you would do so).

Note that IRCC routinely screens criminal name-record databases multiple times while processing a citizenship application and almost certainly will become aware of the charges even if you do not notify them.

How IRCC actually handles such cases appears to vary some. This is where an immigration lawyer's experience can be invaluable.

OVERALL: if you are looking at a conviction and a year of probation, you really, really need to know the details, and you should carefully review the situation with BOTH the criminal defense lawyer AND an experienced immigration lawyer.
 

PrivateNumber

Member
Feb 12, 2021
11
0
see when you take oath they will ask you whether you have a indictable offence in Canada
you should use your lawyer to somehow make sure your case becomes a minor issue or summary offence.
if it becomes a indictable offence, its good that you inform IRCC and wait few years before you reapply