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A rejected citizenship application case spread online

yvanivanw

Star Member
Jul 2, 2020
55
10
The following is a story of a rejected citizenship application, which seems to being spread online recently. Cannot figure out the source of this story. What I do find doubtful, however, is that the guy claimed to have received a procedural fairness letter with an "appeal date".

// *Forwarded*
Got from a friend

SINP nominee's citizenship application rejected

I got into a bit of trouble. my citizenship application is in trouble. My citizenship application was in progress for almost 2.5 years. they asked for passport pages, fingerprint , interview etc etc . Now just on last month i got a procedural fairness letter, they want to reject my application. Their reasoning is that i did not stayed in the province that was nominate me for pr. I was an SINP candidate pr and when i came from BD i stayed in SK for a week and came to toronto. living in toronto since then. In the letter they said , i did not made any attempt to stay in the province nor i tried to contribute to the province as job or otherwise.

They said i signed as in my pnp/pr application that i will made every attempt to stay in nominated province as in good faith. but broke it with bad faith intention.

The letter is 6 pages long and with an appeal date. of course i appealed with a very good toronto lawyer, but the lawyer said honestly i will have very tough battle ahead. even if i stayed at least a year or so i would have fighting chance. i am so scared. i am loosing sleep. and finally if i lost the appeal they will cancel the application and eventually my pr. i have given 7 years to this country of my life. //
 

scylla

VIP Member
Jun 8, 2010
95,733
22,029
Toronto
Category........
Visa Office......
Buffalo
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
28-05-2010
AOR Received.
19-08-2010
File Transfer...
28-06-2010
Passport Req..
01-10-2010
VISA ISSUED...
05-10-2010
LANDED..........
05-10-2010
The following is a story of a rejected citizenship application, which seems to being spread online recently. Cannot figure out the source of this story. What I do find doubtful, however, is that the guy claimed to have received a procedural fairness letter with an "appeal date".

// *Forwarded*
Got from a friend

SINP nominee's citizenship application rejected

I got into a bit of trouble. my citizenship application is in trouble. My citizenship application was in progress for almost 2.5 years. they asked for passport pages, fingerprint , interview etc etc . Now just on last month i got a procedural fairness letter, they want to reject my application. Their reasoning is that i did not stayed in the province that was nominate me for pr. I was an SINP candidate pr and when i came from BD i stayed in SK for a week and came to toronto. living in toronto since then. In the letter they said , i did not made any attempt to stay in the province nor i tried to contribute to the province as job or otherwise.

They said i signed as in my pnp/pr application that i will made every attempt to stay in nominated province as in good faith. but broke it with bad faith intention.

The letter is 6 pages long and with an appeal date. of course i appealed with a very good toronto lawyer, but the lawyer said honestly i will have very tough battle ahead. even if i stayed at least a year or so i would have fighting chance. i am so scared. i am loosing sleep. and finally if i lost the appeal they will cancel the application and eventually my pr. i have given 7 years to this country of my life. //
I saw this in the big FSW thread a few days ago.

I'm also wondering how real it is.
 

scylla

VIP Member
Jun 8, 2010
95,733
22,029
Toronto
Category........
Visa Office......
Buffalo
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
28-05-2010
AOR Received.
19-08-2010
File Transfer...
28-06-2010
Passport Req..
01-10-2010
VISA ISSUED...
05-10-2010
LANDED..........
05-10-2010
So why it’s posted in FSW thread not Citizenship???
Because they were discussing the ability to move out of province after PR through PNP. This is a frequently discussed topic in that section of the forum.
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,427
3,173
Overall Observations:

The situation referenced by the OP is a credible example, whether it is an actual example or not. Misrepresentation, including misrepresentation as to intent to settle in a particular province attendant a PNP PR application, is grounds to deny citizenship, revoke citizenship, and terminate PR status.

That is, it should be obvious, misrepresentations made during the process of obtaining PR status in Canada can be grounds for:
-- denying the PR application,​
-- denying landing even after a PR visa is issued​
-- inadmissibility proceedings leading to loss of PR status​
-- denying citizenship application (resulting in five year prohibition, at minimum)​
-- revoking citizenship anytime for the rest of the person's life​

What actually happens depends on when the authorities learn or discover the misrepresentation. If not until twenty years after the individual became a citizen, the government will have to decide whether it was of sufficient severity to warrant pursuing revocation of citizenship or not, along with questions regarding proof of misrepresentation. If discovered during the landing interview, landing will be denied. There are many variations of how things might go. And there may be different thresholds even if the formal standard of proof is the same . . . for example, a misrepresentation sufficient to justify denying a citizenship application might not necessarily lead to inadmissibility proceedings to terminate the individual's PR status, and in regards to the latter I believe H&C considerations can be a basis for not terminating PR status despite a misrepresentation which would support a valid in law decision to terminate PR status. But make no mistake, misrepresentations made during the process of acquiring PR status haunt the validity of status in Canada for the rest of a person's life.

While proving someone misrepresented their intention can be more difficult than proving many other forms of misrepresentation, as a situation such as that referenced by the OP likely illustrates, reasonable inferences can be based on a person's behavior and the circumstances in the individual case.


Charter Mobility Rights:

As for the Charter Rights prescribed by section 6 in the Charter, giving all Canadians (that is, PRs and citizens), a protected right to move between provinces, that does NOT mean the government cannot use evidence of lack of settlement in one province, or efforts to find work in another province, to support a case alleging misrepresentation as to intentions about where they will live and work.

Moreover, this right is subject to BOTH the general provision allowing "reasonable limits" and to the more specific limitations on mobility rights described in Section 6 of the Charter.

The key thing is that the mobility rights of Canadians does not grant a free pass to use the PNP as a side door to PR status in Canada so the PR can immediately live wherever in Canada they choose. No matter how many get away with gaming the system.

I have seen a number of websites that offer information for immigrants where it is suggested that a period of staying in the nomination province one to two years is usually enough to establish a defense of initial intent to stay in the province; some of these sites specifically recommend that PNP PRs be sure to keep good records such as proof of job hunting in the nomination province as well as proof of residence in the province.

Please stop spreading story from sources that are not clear. Where did you find this? I know many applicants did the same thing and got citizenship. Once you get your pr you can technically live every where you want.
This forum is rife with anecdotal reports of unknown reliability. We do our best to reasonably sort out what to glean from them.

Sometimes it is easy to largely discount or even totally discredit this or that report, especially those which directly conflict with known information.

This is not such a report. On the contrary, it is consistent with known information. If IRCC refers a citizenship application to CBSA for its division, the NSSD, to conduct background screening (this is separate and apart from the formal background clearances from the RCMP and CSIS), no surprise that it takes two plus years for the next step to take place, and if the NSSD identified the applicant made misrepresentations in the process of becoming a Permanent Resident, INCLUDING MISREPRESENTATION AS TO INTENT TO SETTLE IN THE NOMINATION PROVINCE, for those becoming a PR through the Provincial Nomination Program, yeah, that will lead to the issuance of a fairness letter, putting the applicant on notice that there is credible evidence of misrepresentation, which if determined to be the case, will lead to the citizenship application being denied. This results in a five year prohibition (ban), but moreover, as this report suggests, also includes a very real risk that this could lead to a determination of inadmissibility resulting in loss of PR status.

As previously noted, whether this specific report quoted is an actual case, or not, it illustrates what may very well be an actual case.

On the other hand, this forum is even more permeated with bad and dangerously misleading logic like saying I know a lot of people who have driven 25k over the speed limit on the 401, and have done so often, never stopped or ticketed (count me among those who have been there, done that, guilty but not charged), so it's OK to go 25k over the limit, EXCEPT it's not . . . oh, sorry, that's a different example, one just misleading but not so dangerously misleading since the worst case scenario should be only a traffic citation for speeding . . . I meant examples like I know lots of people who did not actually settle in the nomination province who got citizenship, so its OK . . . leaving out the times it does NOT go OK . . . . like when IRCC (typically through CBSA investigation) ascertains there was misrepresentation.

In regards to getting citizenship, referring to "applicants did the same thing and got citizenship," beware of getting out over your skis. Misrepresentation in the process of obtaining PR status is grounds for revoking citizenship, and thus can at least haunt if not actually hang over a person's head for the rest of their life. For the immigrant who made misrepresentations in the process of becoming a PR, there will NEVER be any guarantee it was OK during their lifetime.

But, some may counter, the odds of getting caught are so small as to be remote. Odds are very good the individual will get away with it. Reminds me of a Grateful Dead tune, and the line "I'm as honest as a gamblin' man can be." Which should be honest enough to know the difference between what is OK and what is gambling on the odds.

It is not easy to find official accounts of actual cases where citizenship has been denied for this kind of misrepresentation. The absence of appeals to the Federal Court does not reveal much. And it is indeed quite likely the number of times this happens is probably small, and the number of those who pursue an appeal in Federal Court much, much smaller.

In contrast it is fairly easy to find official accounts of actual cases where a PNP applicant has been issued a PR visa, and during the formal PR landing the immigration officer discerns facts and circumstances evidencing the individual intends to settle in a province other than the nomination province, and is thus denied landing for misrepresentation as to intent. For example, see Navkiran Kaur Dhanoa's case here https://canlii.ca/t/jcm9c



The following is a story of a rejected citizenship application, which seems to being spread online recently. Cannot figure out the source of this story. What I do find doubtful, however, is that the guy claimed to have received a procedural fairness letter with an "appeal date".

// *Forwarded*
Got from a friend

SINP nominee's citizenship application rejected

I got into a bit of trouble. my citizenship application is in trouble. My citizenship application was in progress for almost 2.5 years. they asked for passport pages, fingerprint , interview etc etc . Now just on last month i got a procedural fairness letter, they want to reject my application. Their reasoning is that i did not stayed in the province that was nominate me for pr. I was an SINP candidate pr and when i came from BD i stayed in SK for a week and came to toronto. living in toronto since then. In the letter they said , i did not made any attempt to stay in the province nor i tried to contribute to the province as job or otherwise.

They said i signed as in my pnp/pr application that i will made every attempt to stay in nominated province as in good faith. but broke it with bad faith intention.

The letter is 6 pages long and with an appeal date. of course i appealed with a very good toronto lawyer, but the lawyer said honestly i will have very tough battle ahead. even if i stayed at least a year or so i would have fighting chance. i am so scared. i am loosing sleep. and finally if i lost the appeal they will cancel the application and eventually my pr. i have given 7 years to this country of my life. //
 

rajkamalmohanram

VIP Member
Apr 29, 2015
15,803
5,786
The following is a story of a rejected citizenship application, which seems to being spread online recently. Cannot figure out the source of this story. What I do find doubtful, however, is that the guy claimed to have received a procedural fairness letter with an "appeal date".

// *Forwarded*
Got from a friend

SINP nominee's citizenship application rejected

I got into a bit of trouble. my citizenship application is in trouble. My citizenship application was in progress for almost 2.5 years. they asked for passport pages, fingerprint , interview etc etc . Now just on last month i got a procedural fairness letter, they want to reject my application. Their reasoning is that i did not stayed in the province that was nominate me for pr. I was an SINP candidate pr and when i came from BD i stayed in SK for a week and came to toronto. living in toronto since then. In the letter they said , i did not made any attempt to stay in the province nor i tried to contribute to the province as job or otherwise.

They said i signed as in my pnp/pr application that i will made every attempt to stay in nominated province as in good faith. but broke it with bad faith intention.

The letter is 6 pages long and with an appeal date. of course i appealed with a very good toronto lawyer, but the lawyer said honestly i will have very tough battle ahead. even if i stayed at least a year or so i would have fighting chance. i am so scared. i am loosing sleep. and finally if i lost the appeal they will cancel the application and eventually my pr. i have given 7 years to this country of my life. //
I'm sorry about this.

However, while people were spreading paranoia in the past (around 2016 - 2017) about PR statuses being revoked because of not fulfilling the obligations to the nominating province (and the province "withdrew" the nomination that was provided), I took it with a grain of salt but also kept an open mind.

Technically, you are signing a commitment when you apply for Provincial Nominee Program and you, in good faith, INTEND to try and establish yourself in the province and fill a market need there. However, at first glance of Section 6 of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms, there is nothing in there that suggests that section 6 doesn't fully apply to provincial nominees. While I have heard stories of provinces revoking the nomination ( at least 1 case seemed to be legitimate), my understanding was this kind of revocation was very rarely enforced. I know a bunch of friends who all applied for PNP programs from other provinces but they lived there for a week or a month (tops) and then moved to Toronto.

I have noted, in the past, several times that this is sort of like using a backdoor to enter Canada and it is more of a moral obligation (rather than a legal one) to reside in the province of nomination. At the time, I found no legal basis with which this can actually be enforced.

I found a more technical version of section 6 (and related sections and some supreme court judgements related to section 6) here => https://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/csj-sjc/rfc-dlc/ccrf-ccdl/check/art6.html

However, that turned out to be way too technical for me.

Later, this caught my eye :

6. (1) Every citizen of Canada has the right to enter, remain in and leave Canada.

(2) Every citizen of Canada and every person who has the status of a permanent resident of Canada has the right:

  1. to move to and take up residence in any province; and
  2. to pursue the gaining of a livelihood in any province.
(3) The rights specified in section (2) are subject to:
  1. any laws or practices of general application in force in a province other than those that discriminate among persons primarily on the basis of province of present or previous residence; and
  2. any laws providing for reasonable residency requirements as a qualification for the receipt of publicly provided social services.
(4) Sections (2) and (3) do not preclude any law, program or activity that has as its object the amelioration in a province of conditions of individuals in that province who are socially or economically disadvantaged if the rate of employment in that province is below the rate of employment in Canada.
One could argue that "any laws or practices of general application in force in a province" includes the obligations of a provincial nominee (to at least try) to establish him/herself in the nominating province but I am not sure.

Having said that, you agree to the condition that you "intend" to live in the nominating province. "Intentions" change. If say, someone who was in a province for 6 months and applied for hundreds of jobs got a couple of interviews but did not get the job, then I'd say that person has every right to move to a different province because the applicant "intended" to stay in the province and has the evidence of efforts s/he made to establish him/herself in the province but it just didn't work out. But if the nominee just landed in the province and moved to a different province a week later without any real effort, then that could potentially be used against the applicant.

Nevertheless, these cases are very rare given the number of people that use nominee programs as backdoors into Canada.

@dpenabill @scylla => Thoughts?

PS :

Here is a post that shows what is apparently a response from SINP when someone asked them if they can move out of the province. Here is another unverified report.

I read the case that @dpenabill posted (https://canlii.ca/t/jcm9c ) and this is a very valid example that this type of revocation/removal is real and does happen.
 
Last edited:

wink

Hero Member
May 25, 2021
733
360
Assuming PNP nominated:
1. How about the cases who live in the province but work (remotely) in other provinces?
2. And how about people who live in Canada but work across the border (daily commute or otherwise)? This seems to be even worse.

Please share your thoughts.

I am trying to understand what is the word establish means? how much of establish we are talking about here? Is owning a house and living mostly there considered established enough? Or work is what considered primary fact to consider established or not?
 
Last edited:

MB@@

Newbie
Oct 22, 2021
8
4
I don't know what to say about it, but it's my story so far
I landed in Canada with my family on PNP, asked the border officer the day I landed that if I dont get the job , can I live somewhere else, he said you are PR, you can live anywhere you want in Canada

after spending three months in the nominated province, exhausting all my money i couldn't get the job , I've documented every damn application 300+, didnt get even a single reply , right after I applied for jobs outside the province, in a week I got response and three offer letters, How can nominated province justify this, they mentioned my profession was on-demand list and i couldn't get the job neither openings and right after they removed my profession 2171 from their demand list

I and my friend spoke to nominated province immigration, she sent an email we are good to move as long as we have our PR, however we need to check with IRCC, I called IRCC they said you can move however check with the province but you are PR, you are free to move

now after 3 years I read this news that due to misrepresentation citizenship got rejected after 7 years, well he didn't stay long enough though 1 week but how the province can justify this its misrepresentation , we have completed survey by unisities why immigrants dont stay in their nominated province and move out , survey clearly states because not enough jobs so how profession is in demand list then ? which means its the misrepresentation by province ?

trust me you can challenge provinces in court for that, to bring people in their province while posting false job demands to attract immigrants

Infact after reading this rumor that the guy got rejected for his citizenship i called back to my nominated province somehow my immigrant officer wasnt in , they will call me back

we all have intention to live in nominated province to start out lives from as scratch as an immigrant but we cant be starve to death and exhaust all our life savings if we cant find the job , Canada is the beautiful country and every province has their own values , but how can you settled and keep your intentions if provinces have no jobs?

these are my thoughts , rest i leave it on you guys
 
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wink

Hero Member
May 25, 2021
733
360
I read the case that @dpenabill posted (https://canlii.ca/t/jcm9c ) and this is a very valid example that this type of revocation/removal is real and does happen.
I found this line from point [25] interesting:

Had she waited to move until after her landing, she would have been free to live where she wished, despite making the obligation to the MB government.

It says despite the obligation to the province.
 
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MB@@

Newbie
Oct 22, 2021
8
4
I found this line from point [25] interesting:

Had she waited to move until after her landing, she would have been free to live where she wished, despite making the obligation to the MB government.

It says despite the obligation to the province.
True , she must land , get PR then she could justify and defend herself but its not limited to that , she got misrepresentation because she didnt disclose her family members living in Canada and thats the reason she got revoke orders
 

rajkamalmohanram

VIP Member
Apr 29, 2015
15,803
5,786
I don't know what to say about it, but it's my story so far
I landed in Canada with my family on PNP, asked the border officer the day I landed that if I dont get the job , can I live somewhere else, he said you are PR, you can live anywhere you want in Canada

after spending three months in the nominated province, exhausting all my money i couldn't get the job , I've documented every damn application 300+, didnt get even a single reply , right after I applied for jobs outside the province, in a week I got response and three offer letters, How can nominated province justify this, they mentioned my profession was on-demand list and i couldn't get the job neither openings and right after they removed my profession 2171 from their demand list

I and my friend spoke to nominated province immigration, she sent an email we are good to move as long as we have our PR, however we need to check with IRCC, I called IRCC they said you can move however check with the province but you are PR, you are free to move

now after 3 years I read this news that due to misrepresentation citizenship got rejected after 7 years, well he didn't stay long enough though 1 week but how the province can justify this its misrepresentation , we have completed survey by unisities why immigrants dont stay in their nominated province and move out , survey clearly states because not enough jobs so how profession is in demand list then ? which means its the misrepresentation by province ?

trust me you can challenge provinces in court for that, to bring people in their province while posting false job demands to attract immigrants

Infact after reading this rumor that the guy got rejected for his citizenship i called back to my nominated province somehow my immigrant officer wasnt in , they will call me back

we all have intention to live in nominated province to start out lives from as scratch as an immigrant but we cant be starve to death and exhaust all our life savings if we cant find the job , Canada is the beautiful country and every province has their own values , but how can you settled and keep your intentions if provinces have no jobs?

these are my thoughts , rest i leave it on you guys
Well, if you have documented evidence of genuine efforts to land a job in in the province but it didn't work out, you might be able to take this for judicial review and it might work in your favor. Talk to a good lawyer and be ready to do that.

But before that, discuss with your lawyer and see if you can send all this evidence (attempts made to establish yourself in the province) and convince them that you made an effort to remain in the province but it did not work out. Show them the expenses you incurred and all the job applications you submitted to the employers in the province.

I hope this works out in your favor.

Wish you the best!
 

MB@@

Newbie
Oct 22, 2021
8
4
Well, if you have documented evidence of genuine efforts to land a job in in the province but it didn't work out, you might be able to take this for judicial review and it might work in your favor. Talk to a good lawyer and be ready to do that.

But before that, discuss with your lawyer and see if you can send all this evidence (attempts made to establish yourself in the province) and convince them that you made an effort to remain in the province but it did not work out. Show them the expenses you incurred and all the job applications you submitted to the employers in the province.

I hope this works out in your favor.

Wish you the best!
i didnt say I am facing any problem , i am sharing my experience and general things for others to understand and there is no problem in moving out if you have job offers, 80% pnps move out though
 

Pra257

Star Member
May 11, 2021
98
6
i didnt say I am facing any problem , i am sharing my experience and general things for others to understand and there is no problem in moving out if you have job offers, 80% pnps move out though
Did ircc asked you anything when you applied for citizenship for this moving out of province?
 

rajkamalmohanram

VIP Member
Apr 29, 2015
15,803
5,786
i didnt say I am facing any problem , i am sharing my experience and general things for others to understand and there is no problem in moving out if you have job offers, 80% pnps move out though
Sorry, I thought you were the original poster. My bad.
 

CaBeaver

Champion Member
Dec 15, 2018
2,941
1,369
..

Infact after reading this rumor that the guy got rejected for his citizenship i called back to my nominated province somehow my immigrant officer wasnt in , they will call me back

..
How do you know who your immigration officer is and what they can do?