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Can we orchestrate a mass complaint filing to CIC for disgraceful limbo?

justanotherguy28

Star Member
Sep 28, 2021
99
54
it's plausible that they have used the covid-19 excuse to prolong the processing times specifically for this
It's possible but not sure if they would go that far. It'll basically become a prison system and (I hope) they know it's not good. Its like Neflix saying "you know what we need to do to keep people from canceling accounts? Force them into a 12 month or a 24 month plan". It'll be a disaster. The freedom of choice is why most people don't think twice about typing their credit card into Netflix or any other similar service.

This possibility is not a big stretch from Steven Harper's plan of assessing the applicant's intention to stay or leave but I don't know if they'd do that now. It also causes a lot of reputational damage. Open forums like these and word of mouth are powerful in immigration communities and if it takes 5 or 6 years after landing to become a citizen, it'll dissuade a lot of potential candidates. I'm not sure how the discovery process works in the Canadian court system but if an illegal criteria like that is used to delay a petition, there's always the risk of it being exposed. Also I don't think they would've moved from 4 yrs in 6 yrs to 3 yrs in 5 yrs if they wanted that. Canadian immigrants have long been moving back and forth so its not a sudden trend.

You can correct me if I'm wrong but my understanding is GTA, specifically Toronto is a bit better than most offices with respect to 2019/20 cases? So may be its just an efficiency thing? May be IRCC, especially the supervisors and above, have completely dropped the ball during covid pressures from the unions or legitimate sources and don't know how to get back on track and are processing applications in random order?

Peope who've gone through mandamus might have a better insight.
 

CaBeaver

Champion Member
Dec 15, 2018
2,941
1,369
It's possible but not sure if they would go that far. It'll basically become a prison system and (I hope) they know it's not good. Its like Neflix saying "you know what we need to do to keep people from canceling accounts? Force them into a 12 month or a 24 month plan". It'll be a disaster. The freedom of choice is why most people don't think twice about typing their credit card into Netflix or any other similar service.

This possibility is not a big stretch from Steven Harper's plan of assessing the applicant's intention to stay or leave but I don't know if they'd do that now. It also causes a lot of reputational damage. Open forums like these and word of mouth are powerful in immigration communities and if it takes 5 or 6 years after landing to become a citizen, it'll dissuade a lot of potential candidates. I'm not sure how the discovery process works in the Canadian court system but if an illegal criteria like that is used to delay a petition, there's always the risk of it being exposed. Also I don't think they would've moved from 4 yrs in 6 yrs to 3 yrs in 5 yrs if they wanted that. Canadian immigrants have long been moving back and forth so its not a sudden trend.

You can correct me if I'm wrong but my understanding is GTA, specifically Toronto is a bit better than most offices with respect to 2019/20 cases? So may be its just an efficiency thing? May be IRCC, especially the supervisors and above, have completely dropped the ball during covid pressures from the unions or legitimate sources and don't know how to get back on track and are processing applications in random order?

Peope who've gone through mandamus might have a better insight.
It's damaging in normal circumstances, but in the times of pandemic any court would see this delay as justified, and IRCC can get away with it. 4/6 and 3/5 says nothing really about IRCC intentions to make it harder on applicants, as all the delays happened after the application is submitted. Also, take for example, selecting PR cards to be picked up from offices, although they are closed. Why would they select someone who meets the requirements to collect their card from the office in times of the pandemic? I want to emphasize this is a hypothesis, but I think it's plausible giving the current trends.

I think most 2019 applicants are worst than 2020 and later applicants in all offices. IRCC seems to be under internal pressure to meet some targets for each year, but once that's met, the remaining applications are tossed to collect dust.
 

jonka5

Full Member
Aug 17, 2021
27
14
I tried everything (several requests to MP, letters to IRCC and immigration minister, Trudeau etc): but nothing nothing came out of it. The IRCC cannot be moved or influenced (or no one wants to do it). I was truly going insane last summer until I discovered this forum and realized that I am just one of many thousands of people in the same boat. To my big surprise, many people on this forum appeared to have done the same things as I and got the same outcome.
So, that's my 2-cents: the IRCC will not be moved by anything. This is one of the most entrenched bureaucratic institutions in Canada. Yes, I am also despairing and suffering like you. But this forum helps me to cope to some extent.
 
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David2736

Star Member
Apr 22, 2013
110
18
Edmonton, AB
Category........
Visa Office......
London
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n/a
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Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
12-Nov-2014
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...what if we applied digitally in the new system?
 

cobie2

Star Member
Aug 23, 2021
84
80
@Macarad I meant hiring a lawyer for pursuing Mandamus not the initial citizenship application itself. Just making your intent (to commence Mandamus proceedings) known can sometimes trigger IRCC to take action and a lawyer doing that on your behalf, instead of yourself, could make the difference that matters.
 

Orgcom

Hero Member
Feb 27, 2020
250
223
@Macarad I meant hiring a lawyer for pursuing Mandamus not the initial citizenship application itself. Just making your intent (to commence Mandamus proceedings) known can sometimes trigger IRCC to take action and a lawyer doing that on your behalf, instead of yourself, could make the difference that matters.
Guys, I highly advise agains mandamus. Don’t feed lawyers and the government with additional money unless you’re in need, e.g. RO is getting close to 730 days.
I think this could be kinda strategy of IRCC to get more money out of people’s pockets: to hold the application as much as they could to force people go for mandamus with a layer and by this to inject more money into Canada’s economy (paying for the expedition without real expedition). Such manipulations should be dodged even if you have money.
If you think your case is urgent, just send an email to your IRCC local office. This should help.
 

Orgcom

Hero Member
Feb 27, 2020
250
223
The best way to make IRCC responsible is to legally seek financial compensation. I guess It cannot be done via mandamus because as soon as IRCC replies, the case will be considered closed.
The best scenario is if an applicant experienced great psychological distress and/or health problems because of the limbo and has a paper from a doctor. Moreover, the higher chance for success have applicants who were sitting on DM for many months because in this case IRCC cannot say that they were waiting for a paper from some third party...
Not all the layers can pull off such a thing. But if they could, I'm sure this case would become very popular across the media...
 

cobie2

Star Member
Aug 23, 2021
84
80
The best way to make IRCC responsible is to legally seek financial compensation. I guess It cannot be done via mandamus because as soon as IRCC replies, the case will be considered closed.
The best scenario is if an applicant experienced great psychological distress and/or health problems because of the limbo and has a paper from a doctor. Moreover, the higher chance for success have applicants who were sitting on DM for many months because in this case IRCC cannot say that they were waiting for a paper from some third party...
Not all the layers can pull off such a thing. But if they could, I'm sure this case would become very popular across the media...
We've been through this before. Canadian courts aren't big on compensation awards and much less on punitive damages. Also most people willing to take legal action aren't going into this expecting a payday, only that IRCC does what their duty compels them to do.
 

Orgcom

Hero Member
Feb 27, 2020
250
223
We've been through this before. Canadian courts aren't big on compensation awards and much less on punitive damages. Also most people willing to take legal action aren't going into this expecting a payday, only that IRCC does what their duty compels them to do.
Good. Mandamus should be avoided then as much as possible. Guys, try to ignore any sort of emotional manipulations from IRCC. Make your life interesting so you don't have to think about the delayed application.
 
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cobie2

Star Member
Aug 23, 2021
84
80
Good. Mandamus should be avoided then as much as possible. Guys, try to ignore any manipulations from IRCC. Make your life interesting so you don't have to think about the delayed application.
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That's a cost benefit analysis each applicant has to make for themselves. I myself will pursue it if my application isn't finalized by the 2-year mark which would be in November 2022. That's because (1) I have one of the most straightforward cases possible (single applicant, zero misrepresentations/omissions advertent or inadvertent, zero criminality in Canada or abroad or ties to suspect organizations, no physical presence issue, not a single skeleton in the closet lol) (2) I don't mind spending the money for it (3) I believe a delay of more than 2 years for a routine, straightforward case like mine is unreasonable.
 

Tackica

Star Member
Feb 24, 2015
108
50
Good. Mandamus should be avoided then as much as possible. Guys, try to ignore any sort of emotional manipulations from IRCC. Make your life interesting so you don't have to think about the delayed application.
I strongly disagree. Every individual should make a decision for themselves. If someone thinks mandamus is a way to go, then they should do it. If everybody stays passive, then it is just an encouragement of the inert system. It needs to change.
 
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Orgcom

Hero Member
Feb 27, 2020
250
223
That's a cost benefit analysis each applicant has to make for themselves. I myself will pursue it if my application isn't finalized by the 2-year mark which would be in November 2022. That's because (1) I have one of the most straightforward cases possible (single applicant, zero misrepresentations/omissions advertent or inadvertent, zero criminality in Canada or abroad or ties to suspect organizations, no physical presence issue, not a single skeleton in the closet lol) (2) I don't mind spending the money for it (3) I believe a delay of more than 2 years for a routine, straightforward case like mine is unreasonable.
LOL, I would go for mandamus too if 2 years (3 years in my case) are reached in November 2022. I would try to avoid mandamus as much as possible though if two years are reached in November 2021. These cases are simply incomparable because of the COVID-related inactivity of IRCC in 2020.
Go for mandamus! I personally don't want to pay the government for their incapability.
 

justanotherguy28

Star Member
Sep 28, 2021
99
54
It's damaging in normal circumstances, but in the times of pandemic any court would see this delay as justified, and IRCC can get away with it. 4/6 and 3/5 says nothing really about IRCC intentions to make it harder on applicants, as all the delays happened after the application is submitted. Also, take for example, selecting PR cards to be picked up from offices, although they are closed. Why would they select someone who meets the requirements to collect their card from the office in times of the pandemic? I want to emphasize this is a hypothesis, but I think it's plausible giving the current trends.

I think most 2019 applicants are worst than 2020 and later applicants in all offices. IRCC seems to be under internal pressure to meet some targets for each year, but once that's met, the remaining applications are tossed to collect dust.
It's a possibility. None of us know exactly what's going on inside IRCC offices. If you've been around, you know the bureaucracy can get a little protectionist here. And secrets can stay much longer in such environments. (I was, in fact surprised to see only Canadian persons can file ATIP requests.)

It's certainly strange, some of these cases - one 2018 or 19 case where the wife failed the test and the IRCC couldn't find another other slot for her ever since?! And recently, the husband was trying to separate his + kid's application from his wife's and the split request was denied. Things like these are borderline inhuman. And there are others where 2019 cases are sporadically getting new updates after seeing no action for several months. Certainly difficult to explain those. Apparently its the same with cobie2.

I wouldn't listen to anyone on whether or not to file mandamus, unless they've filed one themselves. If your own deadline says its time to go for the next step, you should start the consultation and ignore everyone else. If I'm filing, I'd also pick a media-savvy lawyer if possible, just an add-on. Make sure to look for all the signs: fixed fee that's preferably publicly posted (or pro bono is much better if available.


In the US, the federal government is supposed to pay the suing attorney if the government loses, so many lawyers take immigration cases pro bono even for folks that can't otherwise afford it. The government pays the attorney fee if the government loses, no one pays if the government wins. Not sure if Canada has a similar provision, I'd check that. Insist on a proper budget in all plausible scenarios - even if the case drags on etc, don't make them think you have an unlimited budget. Once you find a fitting attorney, you have someone who knows the system better and whose incentives are 100% aligned with yours. I don't think you're interested in money, but folks asking for money or damages from IRCC are going to have a weaker case. The goal is to get the application processed not making some money out of this.

More importantly: I don't know if Canada has a system where you can access all federal dockets (US has a paid case docket system where you get free access for upto $25/qtr and they'll bill you some small amount after that - or sites like casetext). If there's one, I'd equip myself with the case law - EVEN BEFORE going to an attorney. It might sound complicated and also a bit of a dry reading but it's usually a simple description of the litigation scenario and the outcomes, again I don't know if there's transparent docket access in Canada.

Filing another application (as others have suggested) is not a bad idea but what's the guarantee that will work? Just like attempting to trigger a file transfer by moving, it's just another gamble. In a third-party forum like a mandamus proceeding, IRCC might say you are the one causing the delay by filing a duplicate application. (I still think moving is a slightly better option even though it's not an option for the vast majority.)

Basically you have two groups of options: one is to keep prodding IRCC to process your application (writing to legislators etc/filing a duplicate application/moving etc). The other option is you're done dealing with IRCC and are going to a third party forum like mandamus.

You decide based on what your situation demands. Irrespective, I'd read up on everything I find about mandamus cases - both in this fourm and on the internet.
 

CaBeaver

Champion Member
Dec 15, 2018
2,941
1,369
I strongly disagree. Every individual should make a decision for themselves. If someone thinks mandamus is a way to go, then they should do it. If everybody stays passive, then it is just an encouragement of the inert system. It needs to change.
Most people prefer to play passive out of fear and helplessness. I have noticed for example in these forums people who were once vocal, no longer speak of their dissatisfaction. Maybe out of feeling helpless and that constant ranting doesn't help. This is a reflection of how weak we are as immigrants in Canada. We are potentially under the risk of being retaliated against, and no one would know this because of the secrecy involved with IRCC. We are treated by IRCC as Canada did us a favor accepting us, and not as we are the driving force of Canada's economy and demography.
 
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