Sponsored Parents - RO not met and Passport Expired

[Ranvir Moore]

Dear Experts,

I would appreciate if you could shed some advise on the below:

- Parents moved in as PR in 2013 and couldn't complete their Residency Obligation by 2018
- Passport has expired
- My father had a job which he couldn't leave back home in India
- My mother also didn't want to leave her parents who were old and feeble. Her mom passed away in 2016 and father passed away earlier this year (2021).

At this point I understand their only option to come back to Canada is via border crossing using their Landing document (as PR has expired). And that too isn't going to be a cake-walk.
Can they insist that my mom couldn't leave her ailing parents behind and had to take care of them because of which they couldn't be in Canada? She definitely being the youngest daughter of the family was very closer to her parents (although she had other siblings).

Please let me know your thoughts. Do let me know if you feel that this matter requires a consultancy with an RO expert (lawyer or RCIC).
As they are old (in 70's), I do want to make their travel to US and the road trip to Canada as smooth as possible. I don't want to consider renouncing their Permanent Residency and reapplying for Sponsorship at this time.

Any tips/help would be much appreciated.

Best!

 

[canuck78]

Dear Experts,

I would appreciate if you could shed some advise on the below:

- Parents moved in as PR in 2013 and couldn't complete their Residency Obligation by 2018
- Passport has expired
- My father had a job which he couldn't leave back home in India
- My mother also didn't want to leave her parents who were old and feeble. Her mom passed away in 2016 and father passed away earlier this year (2021).

At this point I understand their only option to come back to Canada is via border crossing using their Landing document (as PR has expired). And that too isn't going to be a cake-walk.
Can they insist that my mom couldn't leave her ailing parents behind and had to take care of them because of which they couldn't be in Canada? She definitely being the youngest daughter of the family was very closer to her parents (although she had other siblings).

Please let me know your thoughts. Do let me know if you feel that this matter requires a consultancy with an RO expert (lawyer or RCIC).
As they are old (in 70's), I do want to make their travel to US and the road trip to Canada as smooth as possible. I don't want to consider renouncing their Permanent Residency and reapplying for Sponsorship at this time.

Any tips/help would be much appreciated.

Best!

If there were other siblings in India their argument of why they couldn’t leave the parents is not actually accurate. It seems as the primary reason why they didn’t meet their RO originally is because your father wanted to remain employed in India. If your parents are able to enter Canada without being reported they may not be able to have access to healthcare untill they have a valid PR card. At their age that would be a huge risk. Your options are PRTD or trying to cross at the US border. How long have they actually spent in Canada? Did they ever relocate?

 

[Ranvir Moore]

They were here for maybe 6-7 months out of the 2 years. The got their Health care cards, learners permit, and a Bank account.

As per what I understand at present they are still permanent resident of Canada.But the moment we apply for PRTD, they are going to come in the spotlight and PR revocation proceedings will start; as the RO has not been met.
As you mentioned the border crossing from US seems to be the only option left. That too will depend a lot on the immigration officer at the border. I just want to see what we can do or say to further strengthen our case to get entry into Canada.

 

[canuck78]

They were here for maybe 6-7 months out of the 2 years. The got their Health care cards, learners permit, and a Bank account.

As per what I understand at present they are still permanent resident of Canada.But the moment we apply for PRTD, they are going to come in the spotlight and PR revocation proceedings will start; as the RO has not been met.
As you mentioned the border crossing from US seems to be the only option left. That too will depend a lot on the immigration officer at the border. I just want to see what we can do or say to further strengthen our case to get entry into Canada.

Even if they manage not to get reported they will struggle to get a new health card in many provinces until they can show a valid PR card. They will need to leave India not knowing whether they will be able to remain in Canada. They have been out of Canada for a very long time and were not close to meeting their RO before 2018. Sounds like they have not spent any days in Canada in the past 5 years.

 

[scylla]

They were here for maybe 6-7 months out of the 2 years. The got their Health care cards, learners permit, and a Bank account.

As per what I understand at present they are still permanent resident of Canada.But the moment we apply for PRTD, they are going to come in the spotlight and PR revocation proceedings will start; as the RO has not been met.
As you mentioned the border crossing from US seems to be the only option left. That too will depend a lot on the immigration officer at the border. I just want to see what we can do or say to further strengthen our case to get entry into Canada.

They will be allowed into Canada regardless. The question is whether they will be reported at the border for failing to meet RO or not. If they are not reported, then they simply enter and remain in Canada for 2 years straight to be able to renew their PR cards.

If they are reported, then they will be called to a hearing to argue why they should be able to keep their PR status.

As you've said, it's really up to the CBSA officer. Working outside of Canada isn't accepted as a reason for failing to meet RO. So the argument they'll need to use is the health of your mother's parents. As said above, this is generally a much stronger argument when you are an only child to those parents (however your mother has siblings). They can certainly still try to use this as a reason if they are asked about their long absence at the border and should bring evidence to support this.

 

[Ranvir Moore]

Fellows.. Truely appreciate you helping me on this.

Canuk78:
You are correct. They haven't spent any day in Canada in the past 5 years. And yes, this is a risk involved.
I am a little uncertain about the Health Card. Do people have to renew their Health Cards in certain provinces? I am in Alberta and haven't heard about this. We never had to renew ours. Please advise...

Scylla:
Is it certain that they "will be allowed into Canada regardless"?? I thought they could deny the entry on Landing document because the RO hasn't been met??

What happens if we are a no-show at the hearing to argue the case (if allowed in and 'reported'). Someone told me that they can't track folks down for not showing up. And we just wait for 2 year period and apply for a renewal. I don't know much about this but would like to get your thoughts.

We will do our part to gather all the supporting documents to build our case. And emphasize on the 'caring of elders parents' argument.

Thanks again fellows.

 

[steaky]

Fellows.. Truely appreciate you helping me on this.

Canuk78:
You are correct. They haven't spent any day in Canada in the past 5 years. And yes, this is a risk involved.
I am a little uncertain about the Health Card. Do people have to renew their Health Cards in certain provinces? I am in Alberta and haven't heard about this. We never had to renew ours. Please advise...

Scylla:
Is it certain that they "will be allowed into Canada regardless"?? I thought they could deny the entry on Landing document because the RO hasn't been met??

What happens if we are a no-show at the hearing to argue the case (if allowed in and 'reported'). Someone told me that they can't track folks down for not showing up. And we just wait for 2 year period and apply for a renewal. I don't know much about this but would like to get your thoughts.

We will do our part to gather all the supporting documents to build our case. And emphasize on the 'caring of elders parents' argument.

Thanks again fellows.

Rather than to speculate what will happen, they should take chances to enter Canada via the land border using their expired PR cards.

 

[Buletruck]

What happens if we are a no-show at the hearing to argue the case (if allowed in and 'reported'). Someone told me that they can't track folks down for not showing up. And we just wait for 2 year period and apply for a renewal. I don't know much about this but would like to get your thoughts.

That would be incorrect. If they are reported and do not appeal, they will loose their PR status and regardless of how long they wait, they won’t be eligible to renew it. Essentially, if they are reported at entry, their PR status is lost at that point ( they get 30 days to appeal the decision). If there is no appeal or they don’t show up to defend their position, the decision to revoke or maintain their status will be made on the information available (and probably not in their favour if they fail to show up).

On a side note, once reported, days in Canada will not count towards residency until a decision is made on an appeal (and only on an appeal).

 

[scylla]

Fellows.. Truely appreciate you helping me on this.

Canuk78:
You are correct. They haven't spent any day in Canada in the past 5 years. And yes, this is a risk involved.
I am a little uncertain about the Health Card. Do people have to renew their Health Cards in certain provinces? I am in Alberta and haven't heard about this. We never had to renew ours. Please advise...

Scylla:
Is it certain that they "will be allowed into Canada regardless"?? I thought they could deny the entry on Landing document because the RO hasn't been met??

What happens if we are a no-show at the hearing to argue the case (if allowed in and 'reported'). Someone told me that they can't track folks down for not showing up. And we just wait for 2 year period and apply for a renewal. I don't know much about this but would like to get your thoughts.

We will do our part to gather all the supporting documents to build our case. And emphasize on the 'caring of elders parents' argument.

Thanks again fellows.

Yes, it's certain they will be allowed into Canada (even if they are reported for failing to meet the residency requirement).

If they fail to attend the hearing and "hide" from IRCC, then a decision will be made without their participation and their PR status will be revoked. Once that happens, they will end up in Canada without status and with an order to leave Canada.

 

[canuck78]

Fellows.. Truely appreciate you helping me on this.

Canuk78:
You are correct. They haven't spent any day in Canada in the past 5 years. And yes, this is a risk involved.
I am a little uncertain about the Health Card. Do people have to renew their Health Cards in certain provinces? I am in Alberta and haven't heard about this. We never had to renew ours. Please advise...

Scylla:
Is it certain that they "will be allowed into Canada regardless"?? I thought they could deny the entry on Landing document because the RO hasn't been met??

What happens if we are a no-show at the hearing to argue the case (if allowed in and 'reported'). Someone told me that they can't track folks down for not showing up. And we just wait for 2 year period and apply for a renewal. I don't know much about this but would like to get your thoughts.

We will do our part to gather all the supporting documents to build our case. And emphasize on the 'caring of elders parents' argument.

Thanks again fellows.

If there is no expiry date on your health card then it is usually frozen if there is no activity for a certain period of time. Your parents are likely to have to have to prove they are a PR and it’s unclear how much they will insist on proving they have a valid PR card or they have been living in Alberta all this time or are compliant with their PR RO. We have seen many in similar circumstances need to wait until they have a PR card to get a new health card. They lost their coverage a long time ago while not meeting the residency requirement to receive healthcare in Alberta. Currently you must spend the first 12 months in Alberta and then you can be out of Alberta for up to 7 months every year.

 

[Ranvir Moore]

Steaky:
Please help me walk through the scenario. When we approach the window and only furnish the expired PR card, wouldn't that raise a red flag?
I thought the only option I have is cross the border on Landing document. Although we will be carrying the exprired PD and can furnish if asked.

Canuck78:
This can be an issue For Sure. I will look up the details. So what I hear is that they will have to wait for the new PR (more than 2 years), before they get their new
Health Care cards??? That's a Red Flag for sure. Also, if they do not get reported (if we get lucky), would they still have an issue getting their Health Services
reactivated?

Scylla & Buletruck:
Thanks for your advise on the consequences of note showing up for hearing . That wouldn't be an advisible thing to do.


Thanks again everyone!

 

[canuck78]

Steaky:
Please help me walk through the scenario. When we approach the window and only furnish the expired PR card, wouldn't that raise a red flag?
I thought the only option I have is cross the border on Landing document. Although we will be carrying the exprired PD and can furnish if asked.

Canuck78:
This can be an issue For Sure. I will look up the details. So what I hear is that they will have to wait for the new PR (more than 2 years), before they get their new
Health Care cards??? That's a Red Flag for sure. Also, if they do not get reported (if we get lucky), would they still have an issue getting their Health Services
reactivated?

Scylla & Buletruck:
Thanks for your advise on the consequences of note showing up for hearing . That wouldn't be an advisible thing to do.


Thanks again everyone!

Yes I am saying if they don’t get reported they may have to wait until they have a valid PR card to get health coverage which means 2-3 years without healthcare. There can be significant consequences for not meeting your RO. At their age that becomes a big risk. We have seen others enter without being reported but as a younger person it isn’t as much of a concern although still a risk. I assume many kept paying for emergency health insurance.

 

[Ranvir Moore]

Point taken. Thanks canuck78.
Seems like the bigger piece I need to worry about is the Health Coverage at this point then. Thanks for bringing this to my attention. Based on what you shared, POE option might be rulled out As Well

I am new to PRTD and would have to study this piece. Atleast they will still be in India while the application is filed.

1. I presume anyone can apply for the PRTD. What are the probabilities of getting the PRTD approved at the first run?
2. Should I pull in an expert/consultant to help on the case?
3. What are the probabilities of getting approval on Appeals (if initial application is denied) and how long does the process ?
Once again the venue we'll be pursuing is passing away of mother's parents in 2021 and 2016.

Thanks again

 

[canuck78]

Point taken. Thanks canuck78.
Seems like the bigger piece I need to worry about is the Health Coverage at this point then. Thanks for bringing this to my attention. Based on what you shared, POE option might be rulled out As Well

I am new to PRTD and would have to study this piece. Atleast they will still be in India while the application is filed.

1. I presume anyone can apply for the PRTD. What are the probabilities of getting the PRTD approved at the first run?
2. Should I pull in an expert/consultant to help on the case?
3. What are the probabilities of getting approval on Appeals (if initial application is denied) and how long does the process ?
Once again the venue we'll be pursuing is passing away of mother's parents in 2021 and 2016.

Thanks again

Don’t think you should disregard their chance of being reported and losing their PR. That is also a significant risk not only inability to access healthcare. Nobody can give you a sense about their chances of PRTD based on H&C. The reasons your parents remained in India was primarily your fathers job at the beginning. If she had other siblings in India they could also care for the parents. You would also need to show that they had ongoing serious medical needs that wouldn’t allow your parents to spend any time in Canada and there was nobody else who could care for them in the family.

 

[Ranvir Moore]

I am starting to lose hopes.
Will we have to disclose that my dad was working in India while away from Canada.?

Any thoughts on renouncing the PRs and me reapplying Parents Sponsorship? Dont know how Canadian Government feels about reapplying folks who lost the PR because of RO.