Lots of people going via the US land border from other countries. Until we know more information about covid some form of shorter quarantine and testing would likely be realistic for those who are landing with proof of vaccination. Unfortunately some may lie about their vaccination status, we don't know when immunity will start really decreasing, there may be variants that are less effective to vaccines and some of the vaccines available are much less effective.
Any new information on the latest announced travel restrictions please post here
- Thread starter JohnnyToronto
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Perhaps. The US has no such rules at the moment, but you are probably correct that Canada will be more strict.
Another tricky issue is situations where people are unable to get vaccinated before arriving in Canada as PR. For example, here in Korea, the vaccination rollout has been a disaster, and I won't be able to get one before we leave here in July. That's why we plan on flying to the US first, in hopes of easily getting a jab there before entering Canada. Don't mind doing the 14 day quarantine at home, but I would be upset if we had to shell out 2 grand to stay at a quarantine hotel, especially when the science proves what common sense should already have confirmed: when you put all the at-risk people on top of each other in one place, the virus spreads more easily!
Where did science prove that with respect to the hotel quarantine? Citation?
Guess they want to make sure you're safe?
Out west they seem to rely on your neighbours to keep watch and the local police would only be involved
if you are affiliated with south Asian gang members.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/lesliewu/2021/05/27/government-advisory-panel-calls-for-an-end-to-canadian-quarantine-hotels/amp/
Government's own scientific/medical experts said the policy doesn't make scientific sense.
Your post implied that the hotel quarantine policy actually caused more spread of the virus. Nowhere in the article (nor in the report as far as I'm aware) is that claim made. Some cases of spread within the hotels does not prove that either, since the issue is spread to the community relative to not having the hotel quarantine policy.
The report does criticize the policy on a whole range of points - including some lack of enforcement on arrival (hence the increased fines announced), effectiveness compared to (for example) better enforcement of the at-home isolation requirements, and particularly and especially the major gap, which is that there's no hotel quarantine requirement at the border.
But "science" has not claimed that the policy has resulted in more spread of the virus. No need to make stuff up.
That panel made a number of recommendations - but the government could decide to make it more strict by eg imposing more requirements for those arriving at land borders. (Yes, the panel made different recommendations - but the Premier of Ontario is calling for different things.) Some of those recommendations are not exactly science but about trade-offs - typical public policy stuff - effectiveness vs cost. Government would be perfectly within its rights to decide that more strict at higher cost is better policy (not that I'm saying they will).
Anyway for your specific case, I'm not sure that relying on travelling first to USA to then cross into Canada will necessarily be better either individually (eg access to vaccines getting quite good now in Canada, you could be surprised by different requirements, etc). Obviously hotel costs are an extra cost, but so is extra legs of travel (usually, does depend on specifics).
One thing 'science' is quite a bit more clear on is that all things being equal, more travel is more risk of spread - and right now, comparative USA/Canada new cases are about the same per capita, and deaths per capita still higher in USA. (Although numbers fluctuate and it does depend a lot on which province and state, etc - at any rate, no easy answers there).
But hotel quarantine causing more spread? No, 'science' did not say that.
I can see I've opened a can of debate worms here haha. I understand the nuances of the situation, but perhaps I could have worded it better. Maybe something along the lines of: "there is a legitimate scientific and public health oriented case for getting rid of hotel quarantine." In any case, you are certainly entitled to your opinion. I simply wish to point out that reasonable people may disagree. And I only share my own circumstances to illustrated that these situations aren't always black and white, and people make their best decisions based on what they can control. For the record, we will save close to $1,000 by going to the US first. Not many people in the world are in a position to piss $1,000 away on a hotel if they already have a perfectly legitimate quarantine plan.
That's a fair formulation, no argument. There could also be an argument on the other side (although I'm not attempting to make it). But as implemented, definitely LOTS of shortcomings - just not the 'it made things worse' case (as far as I've seen).
And yes, I won't argue/dispute your specific plans - up to you, it's a series of trade-offs. I doubt it's an improvement on covid only terms to add extra legs, but that's not the only factor. Personally I'm hoping the hotel quarantine lifted before becomes an issue for us - larger family, more costs, and we should all be fully vaccinated by then.
(I've been through the "extra days of travel" vs somewhat less out-of-pocket decision many times. Sometimes it's worth the money, if you have it. But an individual choice.)
A little bit disappointed, Canada and US are listed in the orange zone instead of the green zone like Australia. But apparently it's more a question of having a standardised digital proof. Apparently Canada still doesn't have any kind of vaccination passport or standardized document to show who has been vaccinated and who hasn't (from what I've read in ctvnews.ca/).
https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20210604-green-orange-or-red-france-eases-summer-travel-rules
https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20210604-green-orange-or-red-france-eases-summer-travel-rules
Well that won't make a really significant difference though, the only difference once you are fully vaccinated is a recent negative Covid test. To be fair, I would say that it would be better to require such a test from all, just to have a better shot at avoiding new spread. Sure it adds a bit to the cost of the trip but in the big picture of the full cost of such a trip it is really not much.
I disagree. We can find some flights to France for 400€ (round trip). The PCR test here in Canada is quite expensive -prices for private COVID-19 tests can range from $160 to $400-, unless you’ve some good deals. And if you’ve a big family that’s another story.
It’s an important element in someone’s budget, except if you’ve good incomes.
Anyway. The last update :
Justin Trudeau.
That’s a good news.
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I gave some very, very rough calcs before on where vaccination is in Canada - with implied projections - and what I should have done is linked instead to this econ/data expert instead:
The thread has a lot of detail for those interested. Short form: I was far too conservative about when the 'target' levels (eg about 75/75% first and second shots) - I did simplistic and said end-September. This prof's numbers say end-August (of total population - sooner for 75% of those 12 years and older, which should be by mid-August).
Otherwise the same overall points: Canada is shifting quickly to second doses, but even if that wasn't the strategy (as announced), it would still have to happen because ... pretty soon everyone who wants will already have the first shot.
For those who want to compare internationally, some rankings (on various measures) here:
I think it's fair to say that the only comparison on which Canada's doing less well is % of population fully vaccinated - which is a direct result of the deliberate strategy to focus on first-dose vaccinations instead.
To be considered vaccinated you will need to remain in the US for 14 days after you get vaccinated. The issue is most people don't have a legitimate quarantine plan. Are you alone in your home or only with the people you have travelled with or do you have your own basement suite which will allow you to not have contact with anyone you have not travelled with?
They didn't actually say get rid of it they say the system should be improved. I also think many might change their suggestions seeing what is going on in Asia and South America at the moment. The medical officer of health in Peel, which has been one of the most problematic regions when it comes to covid, has been calling for improved and stricter quarantine policies once we got our numbers down.