Applied for PRTD and now need to respond to Procedural Fairness Letter

[Naveen Arora]

I am a PR who could not complete the residency stay obligations. Now, I have been able to secure a job in Canada and applied for PRTD attaching the appointment letter along with it. I have received a procedural fairness letter, the relevant paragraph has been reproduced below:

Before rendering a final decision, I am offering you the opportunity to submit any additional information and/or documentation that would allay my concerns. You may also submit information pertaining to any Humanitarian and Compassionate (H&C) considerations explaining your situation. Please explain what the consequences would be, should you lose your Permanent Resident Status in Canada. Include information pertaining to the best interest of any minor children involved.

Additional information that I can share is:

• I have 9.5 years old son and plan to attach his age proof (passport) which wasn't done earlier during the PRTD application.

Please let me know what more should be mentioned and attached as proof to convince the VO about my job offer and Humanitarian & Compassionate considerations.

Thank You

 

[armoured]

Additional information that I can share is:

• I have 9.5 years old son and plan to attach his age proof (passport) which wasn't done earlier during the PRTD application.

Please let me know what more should be mentioned and attached as proof to convince the VO about my job offer and Humanitarian & Compassionate considerations.

In the para above the text you have provided, did the officer provide specific text about what the concerns are? Likely a reference to specific part of the IRCC act? (It may only be a reference to the part about compliance with residency obligation).

You provide very little relevant information such as how far out of compliance you are, and even whether the child is in Canada, other family, etc. Where the child is and the child's status may be amongst the most relevant. If you're six yours out of compliance, a higher bar to meet than if only a year, for example.

In current circumstances you can make some reference to covid (travel, economic uncertainty, health concerns, concerns about travelling during period when governments were counselling not to travel, etc). Family responsibilities abroad that prevented you returning earlier - to some extent. Ties to Canada - relevant to H&C if you will be separated from family, for example, and particularly if children in canada will be separated from you if PRTD not approved.

I believe the angle on job offer is that it is evidence of your strong intent to reside in Canada permanently and that in context of other matters, has resolved the issue preventing you from being in Canada (see economic uncertainty and covid above). The tricky part in wording this is that PRTD and indeed PR status are not meant to be kept/retained/granted just so that you have the option to conveniently work where you wish or take up a job offer; if this was focus of your PRTD submission, perhaps not surprising you got PFL.

Note: these are only thoughts and given how little info you've provided, no idea how convincing or credible these points might be. There may be other points of importance that I haven't thought of.

While not an expert on this, you might seriously consider engaging a lawyer to assist with response or provide advice. If your PRTD application is denied (and PFL is an indication this is a strong possibility) and you would consider appealing afterwards, it may make more sense to engage a lawyer now. Won't be free of course but if important to you, may be worth the money.

 

[Naveen Arora]

Thank You Armoured:

I am reproducing the detailed text of the PFL below for your perusal:

Based on the information you provided, I am not satisfied that you have fulfilled your residency obligations as a Permanent Resident of Canada. Specifically, you have not demonstrated having been physically present in Canada for a minimum of 730 days in the last 5 years, or having otherwise complied with the residency obligations outlined in section 28 Immigration and Refugee Protection Act.

Before rendering a final decision, I am offering you the opportunity to submit any additional information and/or documentation that would allay my concerns. You may also submit information pertaining to any Humanitarian and Compassionate (H&C) considerations explaining your situation. Please explain what the consequences would be, should you lose your Permanent Resident Status in Canada. Include information pertaining to the best interest of any minor children involved.

Please provide this information along with any additional information or supporting documentation.

Also, tell me (in case you can) how much would a lawyer charge to help me at this stage and through the process till I get PRTD.

Please advise.

Thank you again.

 

[armoured]

Based on the information you provided, I am not satisfied that you have fulfilled your residency obligations as a Permanent Resident of Canada. Specifically, you have not demonstrated having been physically present in Canada for a minimum of 730 days in the last 5 years, or having otherwise complied with the residency obligations outlined in section 28 Immigration and Refugee Protection Act.
...
Also, tell me (in case you can) how much would a lawyer charge to help me at this stage and through the process till I get PRTD.

Okay, the text as I read it does indicate that the residency obligation (non-compliance) is the only point raised. The other relevant part of Section 28 is whether humanitarian and compassionate considerations 'justify' the retention of PR status or 'overcomes' the breach of residency obligations.

Otherwise I've no input to add save that again, if you provide some more information, more likely posters here could provide useful info. But that's up to you.

I've no idea how much a lawyer would charge. Many would charge for an initial consultation of an hour or so over telephone.

The company that hosts this forum is a legal firm working on immigration.
https://www.canadavisa.com/contact-us.html#gs.1mufif

(I've no experience with them)

 

[Naveen Arora]

What type of posters are you referring to?

 

[armoured]

What type of posters are you referring to?

Participants who post in this forum.

 

[Naveen Arora]

Got it.

You have written, "if you provide some more information". What more information are you referring to? Being specific will certainly help.

Thanks

 

[armoured]

Got it.

You have written, "if you provide some more information". What more information are you referring to? Being specific will certainly help.

Thanks

Read my first post in this thread carefully.

You raised the age of your child as relevant - where is the child, status in Canada, etc.

Other than that - how far out of compliance you are; when did you land/expiry of PR card; how much time you actually spent in Canada and how recently.

Other info: you decide what is relevant, it should be obvious from my post above - things like family in Canada or other extenuating circumstances you can think of. To the extent you wish to share, of course.

As I understand it, the only info you provided with your PRTD submission was the job offer-related; that's nice, but as I understand the regs and practices, that's NOT an H&C consideration.

It might still be considered positively in that at least you won't be a public charge in Canada, but it's not in and of itself a 'reason' to provide you H&C relief, which is - again - probably why you go the procedural fairness letter.

Again as I understand - there is not a strict test or list of things that qualify you or not; they can/will/should consider all relevant matters as a whole, giving more or less weight to various factors (some negative such as very long absence/lack of ties to Canada).

Someone absent for, say, ten years or more has a higher bar to meet than someone only slightly out of compliance with Canada.

 

[Naveen Arora]

You raised the age of your child as relevant - where is the child - With me in my country,

status in Canada - He wasn't born when I got my PR so doesn't have a Canadian PR yet and then I had to come back to take care of my ailing mother so didn't file for his PR., etc.

Other than that - how far out of compliance you are - spent 137 days from Sep 2013 till Feb 2014. Did an internship with a company and also volunteered with a not-for-profit organisation. Had an active bank account along with a credit card which does not have any dues.

when did you land/expiry of PR card - PR card expired in 2015 but as mother was unwell couldn't plan to go back due to my mother's health. A certificate from my mother's cardiologist which captures the chronology of her ailment and her being fit for the last 2 years has already been submitted along with PRTD application.

how much time you actually spent in Canada - 137 days

and how recently - 2013-14.

Other info: you decide what is relevant, it should be obvious from my post above - things like family in Canada - family is with me. I have only friends and a professional network in Canada.

or other extenuating circumstances you can think of - lost my job due to a global shutdown and have been freelancing for the last 2 years. Need this full-time job to take care of my family and also intend to move them to Canada as soon as I put basic amenities in place. My mother is absolutely fit and independent but still will be looked after by my sister and brother-in-law in my absence. Have a written assurance from them.

To the extent, you wish to share, of course.

As I understand it, the only info you provided with your PRTD submission was the job offer-related; that's nice, but as I understand the regs and practices, that's NOT an H&C consideration.

It might still be considered positively in that at least you won't be a public charge in Canada, but it's not in and of itself a 'reason' to provide you H&C relief, which is - again - probably why you go the procedural fairness letter.

Again as I understand - there is not a strict test or list of things that qualify you or not; they can/will/should consider all relevant matters as a whole, giving more or less weight to various factors (some negative such as very long absence/lack of ties to Canada).

Someone absent for, say, ten years or more has a higher bar to meet than someone only slightly out of compliance with Canada.

 

[armoured]

You raised the age of your child as relevant - where is the child - With me in my country,

status in Canada - He wasn't born when I got my PR so doesn't have a Canadian PR yet and then I had to come back to take care of my ailing mother so didn't file for his PR., etc.

Other than that - how far out of compliance you are - spent 137 days from Sep 2013 till Feb 2014. Did an internship with a company and also volunteered with a not-for-profit organisation. Had an active bank account along with a credit card which does not have any dues.

when did you land/expiry of PR card - PR card expired in 2015 but as mother was unwell couldn't plan to go back due to my mother's health. A certificate from my mother's cardiologist which captures the chronology of her ailment and her being fit for the last 2 years has already been submitted along with PRTD application.

how much time you actually spent in Canada - 137 days

and how recently - 2013-14.

Other info: you decide what is relevant, it should be obvious from my post above - things like family in Canada - family is with me. I have only friends and a professional network in Canada.

or other extenuating circumstances you can think of - lost my job due to a global shutdown and have been freelancing for the last 2 years. Need this full-time job to take care of my family and also intend to move them to Canada as soon as I put basic amenities in place. My mother is absolutely fit and independent but still will be looked after by my sister and brother-in-law in my absence. Have a written assurance from them.

Well, this is why the actual facts of the case matter. Covid-related arguments likely can't be taken seriously since out of Canada for more than five years and are off the table (except perhaps as reason why you didn't apply for PRTD immediately after your mother's health improved).

How this looks from the outside: you only spent a few months in Canada, last time you even visited was seven years ago, all of your family is outside Canada (and moving to Canada would separate you from your child), no significant ties in Canada, and you've seemingly made no effort since your PR card expired to restore your status/return. In other words, one way this looks is that the PR status is now exclusively employment related. That's going to be rather a high bar.

This is not to say you shouldn't respond and try: sure, make whatever arguments you wish. Your mother's illness seems to be the strongest argument (except that arguably other family members could have cared for her).

Again, I'd suggest speaking with a lawyer: some of your points and info above arguably hurt rather than help your case. While you must be truthful, a lawyer's job is/should be to help you make the best coherent case and it requires judgment how to formulate and present.

As an example, 'you need this job to take care of your family abroad' - well, I'm not sure that helps your case, PR status is not really intended as a back-up employment option nor financial support for non-Canadians. It's possible however this can be presented positively, or at least not a negative if formulated carefully.

If/when you engage a lawyer: you need to have the frank decision about what to do later if PRTD is denied. An appeal might be lengthy and expensive (if you need legal representation), and possibly with poor prospects (I don't know). If you really want to move to Canada, re-applying (after losing PR status) under the various economic programs may be more realistic. (Again, don't know)

Good luck.

 

[Naveen Arora]

Thank you so much! this is of great help.

 

[canuck78]

Well, this is why the actual facts of the case matter. Covid-related arguments likely can't be taken seriously since out of Canada for more than five years and are off the table (except perhaps as reason why you didn't apply for PRTD immediately after your mother's health improved).

How this looks from the outside: you only spent a few months in Canada, last time you even visited was seven years ago, all of your family is outside Canada (and moving to Canada would separate you from your child), no significant ties in Canada, and you've seemingly made no effort since your PR card expired to restore your status/return. In other words, one way this looks is that the PR status is now exclusively employment related. That's going to be rather a high bar.

This is not to say you shouldn't respond and try: sure, make whatever arguments you wish. Your mother's illness seems to be the strongest argument (except that arguably other family members could have cared for her).

Again, I'd suggest speaking with a lawyer: some of your points and info above arguably hurt rather than help your case. While you must be truthful, a lawyer's job is/should be to help you make the best coherent case and it requires judgment how to formulate and present.

As an example, 'you need this job to take care of your family abroad' - well, I'm not sure that helps your case, PR status is not really intended as a back-up employment option nor financial support for non-Canadians. It's possible however this can be presented positively, or at least not a negative if formulated carefully.

If/when you engage a lawyer: you need to have the frank decision about what to do later if PRTD is denied. An appeal might be lengthy and expensive (if you need legal representation), and possibly with poor prospects (I don't know). If you really want to move to Canada, re-applying (after losing PR status) under the various economic programs may be more realistic. (Again, don't know)

Good luck.

Thank you so much! this is of great help.

Assume you landed in around 2010 so you have actually spent very little time in Canada. Am I correct. When did you actually land? You haven’t spent anytime in Canada for around 8 years, your child isn’t Canadian or even a PR, you have established your life and your child’s life outside Canada, etc. Would consult with a lawyer to give yourself the best chance of retaining your PR status but your best chance is to provide medical proof that your mother didn’t have any other family members to care for her since 2010 and that she needed so much care that you couldn’t move to Canada. Would include proof of her hospitalizations and any proof of the daily care you needed to provide.

 

[Naveen Arora]

In line with your suggestion, I reached out to a lawyer but the amount that has been quoted is way beyond my reach. I told him that I need guidance to respond to PFL but to no avail. No point pursuing it. People like you still hold my hope.

 

[armoured]

In line with your suggestion, I reached out to a lawyer but the amount that has been quoted is way beyond my reach. I told him that I need guidance to respond to PFL but to no avail. No point pursuing it. People like you still hold my hope.

You can try with more than one lawyer and try to be as specific as possible about what you wish at this stage - as suggested above, assistance primarily in drafting response. If there is a potential appeal and lawyer anticipates that, it will be far more money.

But no, it won't necessarily be cheap regardless. (It's also possible that many lawyers will not want to take on a small case and quotes will reflect that lack of interest)

Another suggestion would be a phone consultation where they give you feedback on how to approach and you do the rest yourself. Still will not be free.

If you can't use outside legal counsel, you'll have to respond on your own.

Don't know under which program you immigrated before, you may wish to look and see if you still can qualify (programs have changed) under a new application.

Repeat again: this is not an easy case and opinions here are not professional advice.

 

[Naveen Arora]

I was specific with the lawyer about drafting a response to the PFL (as a result of the PRTD application) which is quite understandable. I wouldn't want to comment on the way they look at it. Appeal comes in only when we reach that stage. I immigrated under FSW. I respect it's a lawyer's profession and they deserve fees but it cant be a rip-off. I need a job hence I applied for the job and then PRTD. It's a question of survival for me at this stage. I am not flush with funds and the lawyer has to appreciate that but as of now yet to come across someone who shares the same perspective.