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Refugee status cessation and PRs applying for citizenship

Kambs16

Star Member
Nov 29, 2016
66
14
[Thank you so much dpenabill.

Indeed its been so long I gave up worrying and moved on with my life. What else can one do in such a situation? Now enter covid and the situation seems to be more complicated, since even those with no issues and oath letter and date ot cancelled till further notice when ceremonies can allow for social distancing.
It was a bit of a relief however to finally hear a sort of timeline of September 30th so i will wait patiently. Thanks for your reassurance. I share the exact hunch you have through and through. I hope for the best and will keep the thread updated.
 

Kambs16

Star Member
Nov 29, 2016
66
14
Hello again.
Just a quick update. After ordering gcms notes, I have finally unravelled a few mysteries regarding my citizenship file and why it has been pending for a while. Quick re-cap - fear of reavailment proceedings.

1. It says my file was suspended a few days after the test in Feb 2019. Doesnt say the reason. Just says no updates have been provided. At another point it says "on hold" confirming that they were probably waiting on some information. I somehow dont think it is CBSA that they are waiting on. Something tells me the process wouldn't take that long without me receiving any communication at all for 17 months. Or perhaps CBSA did an external check..like pending information from another country i travelled too, particularly a country ( not home country) that i travelled to for more than 6 months and failed to obtain a clearance letter, though i provided an explanation why i couldn't obtain it.

2. It says when the MPs office phoned, the program officer at the ministerial enquiries division confirmed that it is residence and prohibition outstanding. Meaning the other stuff must be clear. What would residence and prohibition entail? I did for sure have way more than enough days..as i even applied a full year after completing my residence requirements.

Would kindly appreciate any insight from anyone that understands this better. Thanks a million
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,435
3,183
Hello again.
Just a quick update. After ordering gcms notes, I have finally unravelled a few mysteries regarding my citizenship file and why it has been pending for a while. Quick re-cap - fear of reavailment proceedings.

1. It says my file was suspended a few days after the test in Feb 2019. Doesnt say the reason. Just says no updates have been provided. At another point it says "on hold" confirming that they were probably waiting on some information. I somehow dont think it is CBSA that they are waiting on. Something tells me the process wouldn't take that long without me receiving any communication at all for 17 months. Or perhaps CBSA did an external check..like pending information from another country i travelled too, particularly a country ( not home country) that i travelled to for more than 6 months and failed to obtain a clearance letter, though i provided an explanation why i couldn't obtain it.

2. It says when the MPs office phoned, the program officer at the ministerial enquiries division confirmed that it is residence and prohibition outstanding. Meaning the other stuff must be clear. What would residence and prohibition entail? I did for sure have way more than enough days..as i even applied a full year after completing my residence requirements.

Would kindly appreciate any insight from anyone that understands this better. Thanks a million
Updates are always appreciated. Any information about these things tends to add at least a little piece to the puzzle.

But, unfortunately, this is not all that illuminating. My previous comments cover the extent of both my understanding and even mostly my more speculative sense.

That said, regarding my more speculative sense: The more likely suspects appear to be either a pending review to evaluate reavailment issue, or pending further clearance as to foreign criminality or security inquiries. The vast majority of grant citizenship applicants have NEITHER of these looming. Non-refugees do not have any potential "reavailment" issues, period, and for the vast majority of applicants foreign criminal and security clearances are more or less a routine formality, causing very little if any delays. However, it does appear that refugees tend to be among the few with an increased risk of more complicated foreign criminality and security clearances, with a risk of delay, which probably has as much to do with the nature of the place they come from as it does individual factors, but of course the individual factors being the ones that ultimately matter.

While security clearance delays are not at all common, for those few who are affected, those who do encounter extra inquiries and delays in getting the security clearance, such delays can be inordinately long . . . some of the longest processing times one can find, in both officially reported and forum-reported cases, involve applications essentially on hold for YEARS due to an unresolved security clearance issue. Quite a few for four or five plus years. And I have seen a small number that in effect were suspended indefinitely, one for eight plus years, and even one for more than a decade. These cases are less than fully or clearly reported, however, it not being clear, for example, why at some point the applicant did not withdraw the application and re-apply, just to see how that would go.

Of course, because of Covid-19, probably most cases (most citizenship applications) are largely in limbo now until IRCC operations resume at some near normal level. So this year really tosses things into the *who-knows* bin.

Not much to do for now but wait and see . . . hoping it all gets sorted out favourably and sooner or later (preferably sooner of course) you are scheduled to take the oath.
 

Kambs16

Star Member
Nov 29, 2016
66
14
Hello. Thanks for your response. It indeed gets confusing by the day. However what the gcms notes show me is that no action has ever been taken on my file since feb 2019. At least none indicated.
So when the MP office contacted the local office they were told to call back after September 2020 due to covid back log etc. Does this mean they will have an answer then or thats when i can hope they get to my file. It doesn't make sense. I dont expect anybody to have an answer. I also dont know what more is there to investigate..I already declared I went to my home country both on application and in the interview. So no mystery there really. I do have a strong feeling cbsa was contacted and working to investigate this matter or waiting to say if its worth investigating or not. But im wondering why then they say call back after September.
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,435
3,183
Hello. Thanks for your response. It indeed gets confusing by the day. However what the gcms notes show me is that no action has ever been taken on my file since feb 2019. At least none indicated.
So when the MP office contacted the local office they were told to call back after September 2020 due to covid back log etc. Does this mean they will have an answer then or thats when i can hope they get to my file. It doesn't make sense. I dont expect anybody to have an answer. I also dont know what more is there to investigate..I already declared I went to my home country both on application and in the interview. So no mystery there really. I do have a strong feeling cbsa was contacted and working to investigate this matter or waiting to say if its worth investigating or not. But im wondering why then they say call back after September.
Emphasizing that I do NOT really know . . . my sense is the "call back after September 2020" is a more or less stock answer, and generally NOT informative, NOT illuminating, NOT suggesting that anything is likely to change before then . . . except that IN GENERAL perhaps IRCC will be making progress in better resuming application processing. But that would not illuminate the prospect of action on your application in particular.

Thus, I tend to agree with you, "I dont expect anybody to have an answer."

As best I can discern, which admittedly is not particularly well-informed, there tends to be very long queues for reavailment or security reviews. No idea why. Just that the pattern, based on isolated and typically sketchy reports, suggests that such applications tend to go to the shelf for an especially long time before anyone actually does the assessment or review.

Potential reavailment assessments also can involve a long queue in IRCC, waiting for someone at IRCC to decide whether to even refer the matter to CBSA for further evaluation of potential reavailment, and then a long queue at CBSA for someone to engage in that review, and if there is a decision to proceed with a reavailment proceeding, another long queue to start that process. In the meantime, much or most of this may not be reflected in the version of GCMS notes available to clients.

A lawyer with actual experience in these matters might be able to shed more light. But with the whole system deeply bogged down with Covid-19 related issues, there really is NO rush . . . it is not likely anything is going to be happening any time soon.

Regarding "I also dont know what more is there to investigate:" It may not be so much about "investigating" as it is about simply compiling known information, collating it, and evaluating it. And, especially, the likely very LONG QUEUE such cases sit in before anyone actually picks up the file and proceeds with these tasks. I have no idea why these things seem to sit in limbo so long, but that appears to be what the lengthy timeline is mostly about, the file just sitting there, on the shelf so to key, waiting for the responsible agent or official to open it, evaluate it, and make a decision.

Still comes down to what we have exchanged many times:
Not much to do for now but wait and see . . . hoping it all gets sorted out favourably and sooner or later (preferably sooner of course) you are scheduled to take the oath.
 

trk1

Hero Member
Jul 15, 2014
561
95
Hello. Thanks for your response. It indeed gets confusing by the day. However what the gcms notes show me is that no action has ever been taken on my file since feb 2019. At least none indicated.
So when the MP office contacted the local office they were told to call back after September 2020 due to covid back log etc. Does this mean they will have an answer then or thats when i can hope they get to my file. It doesn't make sense. I dont expect anybody to have an answer. I also dont know what more is there to investigate..I already declared I went to my home country both on application and in the interview. So no mystery there really. I do have a strong feeling cbsa was contacted and working to investigate this matter or waiting to say if its worth investigating or not. But im wondering why then they say call back after September.
If there is no action from Feb 2019..it probably is basically CSIS waiting update scenario...the usual verification for A34/A35/A36(1)/A37 that may result in delays due to foreign governments / 5 eyes response (based on previous travels).

Maybe you want to consider the below points and relate to your situation.

As I understand, successful refugee claimants if they travel back to the source country...or even countries that are believed to have "close" relationship to the source country can be flagged for further CSIS assessment to assess cessation & reavailment, and related Ministerial intervention.

Similarly, I understand, during the original refugee claims proceeding (that resulted in the protected status based on "reasonable grounds to believe" criteria), if the NDP country conditions at that time was lacking in close diplomatic contacts with Canada, and the status has changed today to improved contact, the claimant application goes through the country specific process of CSIS review.



I am not a legal expert..please view it as another opinion!
 
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Kambs16

Star Member
Nov 29, 2016
66
14
Thank you for your very insightful comments. Sheds a lot of light for me on the possible and very plausible causes of delay and reiterates not to expect much and just take my mind off of it completely for now. Thanks so much. I appreciate
 

Blink_

Full Member
Jan 30, 2015
36
5
Hello, seeking an advice on my case, which is not often asked in this thread.
I obtained a PR as a refugee, and after 5 years became Canadian citizen. Now, due to pandemic, I traveled back to my country of origin, to reside with my parents for half a year, used passport from my home country(of origin). Am I in danger of cessation ? and would I lose Canadian citizenship ?
 

Fallen_Warrior

Hero Member
May 16, 2013
287
122
Hello, seeking an advice on my case, which is not often asked in this thread.
I obtained a PR as a refugee, and after 5 years became Canadian citizen. Now, due to pandemic, I traveled back to my country of origin, to reside with my parents for half a year, used passport from my home country(of origin). Am I in danger of cessation ? and would I lose Canadian citizenship ?
No, you are good. Cessation claude does not apply on Canadian citizens. Good Luck!
 
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dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,435
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Hello, seeking an advice on my case, which is not often asked in this thread.
I obtained a PR as a refugee, and after 5 years became Canadian citizen. Now, due to pandemic, I traveled back to my country of origin, to reside with my parents for half a year, used passport from my home country(of origin). Am I in danger of cessation ? and would I lose Canadian citizenship ?
NO issues with your Canadian citizenship. Fully agree with @Fallen_Warrior

The only basis for revoking Canadian citizenship is essentially fraud . . . that is, having made some material misrepresentation in the process of attaining status in Canada (such as failing to disclose absences from Canada during the eligibility period or failing to disclose and present all relevant passports).

Technically once you became a Canadian that resulted in the automatic cessation of your status as a protected person under the UNHRC guidelines. Precisely because you became a Canadian national and are no longer are a person in need of refugee protection . . . you now have the protections afforded Canadian citizens.
 
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dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,435
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But, wouldn't it be grounds for a cessation, since I've been using foreign passport which is not Canadian one, but the one from my home country, hence the grounds for the case against me ?
Obtaining Canadian citizenship technically resulted in the cessation of your status as a refugee. Which is OK.

That is, cessation of protected person status does NOT affect the status of a Canadian citizen.

As I previously stated, the only ground for revoking Canadian citizenship is misrepresentation. Thus, for example, if you obtained the home country passport BEFORE you became a Canadian citizen, and then in applying for citizenship you did not disclose the fact you had obtained your home country passport, that could be grounds to revoke your citizenship -- even if you did that, revocation is not likely to happen, but it would be possible.


Reviewing How the So-Called "Cessation-Clause" Works:

It may be worth reviewing how the so-called "cessation-clause" works.

Before the change in law in 2012, once a refugee became a Permanent Resident the cessation of refugee or protected person status did NOT affect that individual's status as a Canadian PR. Thus, if the refugee-PR obtained a home country passport (a prima facie ground for cessation), or traveled to the home country, or especially if the refugee-PR traveled to the home country using a home country passport, that was grounds for cessation of the individual's refugee status. But before 2012 the cessation of refugee status had NO EFFECT on PR status. It was NOT grounds for revoking or terminating PR status.

Thus, indeed, back then (before 2012) many refugee-PRs did indeed obtain a home country passport, among whom many also used that passport to travel to their home country. It seemed safe to do this because even if authorities pursued cessation proceedings, the individual remained a Canadian PR.

Then, in December 2012 Canada added the so-called "cessation-clause" to the grounds for terminating PR status. In particular, in addition to the previous provisions prescribing termination of PR status (when an individual becomes a citizen, when a Visa Office decision is made the PR failed to comply with the Residency Obligation, or when a Removal Order against the PR comes into force), in 2012 IRPA was amended to add a provision that PR status is terminated on a final decision that refugee protection has ceased (pursuant to particular provisions). This is subsection 46(1)(c.1) in IRPA.

There was rather little publicizing of this change. Not only did many of those who became a refugee-PR previous to the change continue to obtain and use home country passports, even travel to the home country, even new refugees were doing this after becoming a Canadian PR. Not only that, when it came time to apply for citizenship, refugee-PRs who typically would not have any valid passport would ask if they should obtain a passport when applying for citizenship, and not only were participants in this and other forums advising them YES, erroneously, EVEN the CIC help centre telephone agents were often telling them YES, they should obtain their home country passport before making the citizenship application. Even though just the act of obtaining a home country passport alone constituted grounds for cessation of PR status, which in turn would automatically terminate their PR status, again under subsection 46(1)(c.1) in IRPA.

Again, there was rather little publicizing of this. It became a huge and sometimes devastating pitfall for many refugee-PRs.

In 2015, more than two years after the change in law, I was reading cases involving citizenship applicants who got trapped by this. Instead of obtaining Canadian citizenship, they ran into cessation proceedings and not only failed to become citizens but lost status altogether in Canada and faced deportation. No one was talking about this. So I started this thread to WARN refugees-PRs about this pitfall. To warn refugee-PRs to NOT obtain a home country passport UNTIL AFTER they took the oath and obtained Canadian citizenship.

What made this even worse was that even though there was no prohibition or restriction against obtaining a home country passport or traveling to the home country, for those refugees who had become a Canadian PR, until the change in law in 2012, the Harper government proceeded to apply the change in law to refugee-PRs who had traveled to their home country BEFORE the change in law. This was, effectively, a retroactive application of the change in law. The injustice was blatant. The Liberal government has not rolled this back or amended the law, but now there are few refugee-PRs affected in this way. Many believe the provision is still excessively harsh, even if it is only applied to refugee-PRs for actions AFTER the change in law.

My effort here is primarily focused on helping refugee-PRs be aware of the cessation provisions so they can make decisions accordingly.

IN ANY EVENT: NO, there is NO problem lurking in the cessation provisions for a naturalized Canadian citizen who was previously a refugee-PR.
 
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canuck78

VIP Member
Jun 18, 2017
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Hello, seeking an advice on my case, which is not often asked in this thread.
I obtained a PR as a refugee, and after 5 years became Canadian citizen. Now, due to pandemic, I traveled back to my country of origin, to reside with my parents for half a year, used passport from my home country(of origin). Am I in danger of cessation ? and would I lose Canadian citizenship ?
You will need to use your Canadian passport to return.
 

Kambs16

Star Member
Nov 29, 2016
66
14
Quick update
My MPs office had been asked to call back after 30th September for an answer on the progress of my citizenship application. This is the response received. It doesnt shed light on whether any cessation proceedings are underway or the status of my file except that it is non routine. I'm wondering if this is the reason why it has been considered non routine and what immigration verifications means. Anybody with any pointers here?

We can provide you with the following details about the status of the application for a Citizenship Adult Grant for XXXXXX

  • The application was received at the Case Processing Centre in Sydney, Nova Scotia, on XX, 2018.
  • The application is considered non-routine due to the following reason:
    • the file is under review because it requires further verifications. Rest assured that the responsible office will inform the applicant, if they have to provide further details.
  • The criminality verifications are currently valid.
  • The security verifications are currently valid.
  • The immigration verifications are in process.
  • The file was transferred to the XXXX IRCC office for continued processing of the application. This office will schedule an appointment for the applicant in due course, if necessary.
  • Because the application is non-routine, there is no specific processing time to finalize it. Rest assured that all efforts are being made to ensure efficient processing of the application.
    • Should they need to travel using a commercial carrier during this time, they should ensure they hold a valid permanent resident card.
  • If the application is approved:
    • the next step is to wait for the ceremony appointment. At the ceremony, the applicant will take the oath and receive their citizenship certificate.
  • If the application is refused:
    • a refusal letter will be sent to the applicant to inform them of the decision, and
    • the Right of Citizenship Fee will be refunded.