Well I called and its confirmed they're waiting for to hear when they can go back to the office and conduct tests, and so far no online tests.
Citizenship test: Collective action required, or expect endless delays, years. Example of the effective lobbyng of people awaiting spousal sponsorship
- Thread starter piotrqc
- Start date
Would assume the plan is to go back to in person tests because it would be very hard to prevent cheating given the test isn’t complex like essay format.
I am curious what % of individuals never got citizenship because they never passed the test. Are there cases like that?
If everyone eventually passes the "test" and gets citizenship then the cheating point is less important. The test could be structured in a way that even if someone is cheating they are learning about Canada. I think that is the important point in the whole process, knowledge of Canada. If that can be ensured at a basic level through a process even if someone cheats then mission accomplished.
Also for those who are contacting the MPs, maybe it is more effective to reach out to NDP leadership and MP's. The liberals will likely survive the confidence vote based on NDP support in September. The NDP are generally more sympathetic to immigrants and while their views are generally aligned with liberals they are also keen on highlighting the incompetence of managing the pandemic situation and the current citizenship process is a strong example of how everything has been handled poorly with minimum transparency and communication.
If everyone eventually passes the "test" and gets citizenship then the cheating point is less important. The test could be structured in a way that even if someone is cheating they are learning about Canada. I think that is the important point in the whole process, knowledge of Canada. If that can be ensured at a basic level through a process even if someone cheats then mission accomplished.
Also for those who are contacting the MPs, maybe it is more effective to reach out to NDP leadership and MP's. The liberals will likely survive the confidence vote based on NDP support in September. The NDP are generally more sympathetic to immigrants and while their views are generally aligned with liberals they are also keen on highlighting the incompetence of managing the pandemic situation and the current citizenship process is a strong example of how everything has been handled poorly with minimum transparency and communication.
Nice idea !
You can use this form on their site to contact them:
https://www.ndp.ca/contact
All the members of their caucus in the parliment here: (By clicking on the photo of each, we obtain the information to contact them):
https://www.ourcommons.ca/Members/en/search?caucusId=3
Thank you all.
That is strange, since one of my buddies applied for PR from Australia 2 months ago and he already got ITA
In the extreme case that it happens, our files will NOT be returned. Laws dont work in retrospect 99% of the time. It is a very extreme possibility and Canada is not known for such radical laws. Yes, they might put restrictions on further submissions and tighten the requirements, increase physical presence requirement etc. however applications already submitted and in system BEFORE the EFFECTIVE DATE of such a law would be processed per previous standards.
Well, there is history of returning applications. Quebec returned thousands of CSQ applications after a law change in 2019. And in 2012, CIC returned any application FSW application received before 2008 that hadn't been decided https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/corporate/publications-manuals/operational-bulletins-manuals/bulletins-2012/442-modified-august-12-2014.html
It was only the following applications that were returned under the above bulletin
Applications made prior to February 27, 2008, is terminated if, before March 29, 2012, it has not been established by an officer, in accordance with the regulations...
That’s applications that have been in processing stage for 4 years....
Besides the above only applied to FSW Candidates outside of Canada.
We are within Canada, most of us hold PR status, paying taxes.... Returning applications without any reason would make no sense whatsoever.
I think the key challenge we will all be facing will be the significant delays in processing, I would not worry about the return of applications.
COVID cases are rising again in BC and Ontario and in fall cases are expected to go up again with opening of schools and coming of the cold weather along with flu cases. My concern is that CIC has not even really ramped up processing or presented a plan right now when cases are low, what will happen when cases start rising again. These unions are very powerful and it will be additional slow down and delays.
What is needed is some sort of communication and transparency that a plan is in motion. At a minimum questions should be raised through opposition to the Liberal government and the minister in terms of their plan and what actions they are taking to resolve these issues.
The government/CIC talks about how COVID is impacting everything and things are not normal e.t.c The government should be asked then what are they doing to tackle this? Why are they still issuing FSW invitations and processing those if we know that 5-6 million Canadians are unemployed? Why don't they freeze economic immigration and focus resources towards PR and citizenship. These are questions that should be asked and debated, that is how democracy works.
Being at the mercy of an unelected bureaucracy without any accountability is not something that is acceptable. The minister and the government at a minimum need to issue some sort of communication and if additional funding or support is needed that should be highlighted also. The testing bottleneck also needs serious consideration, waiting to go back to the old way of doing things is not happening. The sooner that is accepted by CIC the better for everyone.
COVID cases are rising again in BC and Ontario and in fall cases are expected to go up again with opening of schools and coming of the cold weather along with flu cases. My concern is that CIC has not even really ramped up processing or presented a plan right now when cases are low, what will happen when cases start rising again. These unions are very powerful and it will be additional slow down and delays.
What is needed is some sort of communication and transparency that a plan is in motion. At a minimum questions should be raised through opposition to the Liberal government and the minister in terms of their plan and what actions they are taking to resolve these issues.
The government/CIC talks about how COVID is impacting everything and things are not normal e.t.c The government should be asked then what are they doing to tackle this? Why are they still issuing FSW invitations and processing those if we know that 5-6 million Canadians are unemployed? Why don't they freeze economic immigration and focus resources towards PR and citizenship. These are questions that should be asked and debated, that is how democracy works.
Being at the mercy of an unelected bureaucracy without any accountability is not something that is acceptable. The minister and the government at a minimum need to issue some sort of communication and if additional funding or support is needed that should be highlighted also. The testing bottleneck also needs serious consideration, waiting to go back to the old way of doing things is not happening. The sooner that is accepted by CIC the better for everyone.
Good observations in full post. And I concur in the primary premise, quoted here, with emphasis.
REMINDER: The suggestion that there is any RISK, even a remote risk, that applications currently in process can be denied based on a change in the law regarding the requirements for citizenship is totally FAR-FETCHED.
Repeated assertions here otherwise are FEAR-MONGERING. Especially when repeated by participants who have had enough experience and background to readily know just how far-fetched this threat is.
LET's BE CLEAR: This is NOT to minimize, let alone overlook, the burden or suffering due to what are bound to be rather lengthy delays in the processing of most citizenship applications currently in process. Why that is happening, what IRCC is doing to get back on track, what more IRCC could be doing, and how to encourage IRCC to be more efficient if not aggressive in getting the process really moving forward again, are all valid, important questions, worth examination and discussion. And some appropriate activism is warranted as part of the effort to encourage IRCC to, in effect, do a better job.
Warranting again echoing the post by @hotshot45890
BUT that is not what the OP's utterly unreasonable and excessive and fear-mongering posts have been about. Way too many problems with the nature and manner of mobilization advocated by the OP to try addressing them all. The worst of the sins, repeated periodically, and revived again by @devnill (slightly muted compared to the OP's way over-the-top assertions), is that there is an impending prospect, if not likelihood, that applications currently in process could be "returned" based on changes in the law revising the qualifications for a grant of citizenship. Again, this is FAR-FETCHED. NOT in any way a feasible prospect.
Grossly misleading at best. In the context of this conference and topic, outright false.
This is a forum about citizenship applications made by Canadians who are qualified for a grant of naturalized citizenship. There is NO history of qualified citizenship applicants having their applications returned or denied due to a change in law governing the qualifications for the grant of citizenship.
You make reference to applications made by non-Canadians ("Foreign Nationals" is the nomenclature used in Canadian immigration law), who were AT BEST ELIGIBLE for a grant of status. Those types of applications bear NO resemblance to or affinity with the application for a grant of citizenship which, if made by an individual meeting the requirements, statutorily entitles the individual to the grant of citizenship.
Moreover, they are governed by a COMPLETELY SEPARATE BODY of LAW: the applications you reference were governed by IRPA and other particular provisions governing IMMIGRATION law. Naturalized citizenship applications are governed by the Citizenship Act.
At best, Foreign Nationals (non-Canadians) applying for status in Canada, for temporary or permanent status, have a right to procedural fairness. NO specific right (neither in the Charter nor by statute) to the grant of status. Whether the individual is granted status based on the application is DISCRETIONARY. That does not mean decisions denying status can be arbitrary or capricious or based on prohibited forms of discrimination. Applicants have a right to procedural fairness. A right to procedural fairness does not prohibit retroactive changes in law regarding qualifications. Nonetheless, this is largely discouraged and generally the courts will demand there is a fairly stringent determination as to the need for the changes as such. And just politically it is NOT commonly or easily done, and when done is thus subject to rather strictly defined limitations (as @hotshot45890 noted).
All of which is amply and extensively addressed in the several Federal Court decisions which upheld the relevant changes in IMMIGRATION law that led to procedures which had the effect of denying a whole class of immigration applications.
The path to citizenship for immigrants is, of course, part of Canada's overall immigration policy. But the final phase of that path is NOT governed by immigration law. It is governed by citizenship law. Primarily the Citizenship Act.
Among the biggest differences in how citizenship law works is the HUGE difference in the status of those affected. Only those who are already a Canadian can be eligible to apply for a grant of citizenship. Even dependent children (who are not already a citizen) of a Canadian citizen must first become a Canadian before they become eligible for a grant of naturalized citizenship. Currently, for adults, the absolute minimum period of time a person MUST be a Canadian (that is a Canadian Permanent Resident AND NOT a Foreign National or non-Canadian) is two years.
The Citizenship Act directs that citizenship is to be granted to those determined to be eligible. This is NOT discretionary.
This is NOT to deny the *possibility* retroactive changes can be adopted and applied. BUT to do so would require meeting a much, much higher standard than required for changes in law affecting Foreign Nationals (non-Canadians).
For those who want to hang their hat on mere *possibility,* apart from the fact this is typically a tactic of deception (elevating mere possibility to the status of a feasible prospect as a tool in fear-mongering), I am tempted to take a tangent into the scope of what might really be *possible* . . . recognizing that the Federal Courts have decided that Parliament can implement laws which allow the government to revoke EVEN a NATURAL BORN CANADIAN's CITIZENSHIP, or even change the definition of who is a citizen, and make the basis for doing so applicable to past events. But that would indeed be a tangent and a distraction and a disservice to this topic, given that in any feasible practical world, NO, there is NO prospect of revising the Citizenship Act in a way that would render those with applications currently pending, and who are qualified, no longer qualified. Again, claims otherwise are FAR-FETCHED and FEAR-MONGERING.
(Note re my temptation: back in the day (2014/2015), I followed, researched, studied, and wrote extensively about such things as then Federal Court Justice Rennie's decisions, which in effect ruled that Parliament could define who has citizenship, that even those born in Canada do not have an inherent or Charter right to citizenship, and Parliament could do so virtually any way it chooses, including implementing rules for revoking citizenship, even of those born a citizen in Canada, based on events prior to the change in law. Like many, I can occasionally fall victim to the temptation to show off. Resisting now.)