Allowed to leave Canada

[jweekend]

We, you included, don't know all the details. OP explicitly mentioned he had a letter from the university stating his travel was essential. So, with all due respect, I think you go down the wrong rabbit hole with this...if it was clear that his travel was essential then the agent should have been forced to deem it essential. Anything else and we can as well give up on rules and laws and become a banana republic where we can pay border agents for favors or expect them to judge based on their daily mood or our appearance.

A letter from the university has no legal power in overriding government regulations. Again, it is up to the CBSA officer to decide. Even with a complete explanation, the CBSA officer has within his right to refuse entry. Thats the power that is given to them.

 

[Matt173]

Those are not printed automatically. In fact most every university hesitates to issue any official letter stating that attendance is mandatory. Also the legal authority of such support letter is not questioned nor relevant. It's the same with an employer who writes a letter of support stating that the appearance for work is essential. Let's agree to disagree. I am curious whether OP will come back and explain whether both his and his spouse's course schedule was 100% identical or not.

Institutes are generating certificate automatically. You file a request and it is generated and sent to applicant. They do not stand behind those letters as they do not have any legal authority. It's up to CBSA officer to accept or reject based on those letters.

You are correct that they both should have been together with one officers instead of splitting in to two separate officers. This would have been resulted in either, allowed in to the country for both or refused entry to both. That was the lack of judgment (among others) costed his SP and not hers.

 

[Matt173]

Yes he has the right to refuse based on whatever he likes to use as reason. However if his reasoning is not anchored in the given guidelines and regulations he makes himself liable to an investigation and possible removal from his job because he would demonstrate that he cannot exercise his job properly. Canada hires border agents to monitor and execute the guidelines given, not to play cowboy.

That guys like this get away with BS more often than not is out of question.

Sorry but this is all I have to say. I made my point

A letter from the university has no legal power in overriding government regulations. Again, it is up to the CBSA officer to decide. Even with a complete explanation, the CBSA officer has within his right to refuse entry. Thats the power that is given to them.

 

[jweekend]

Yes he has the right to refuse based on whatever he likes to use as reason. However if his reasoning is not anchored in the given guidelines and regulations he makes himself liable to an investigation and possible removal from his job because he would demonstrate that he cannot exercise his job properly. Canada hires border agents to monitor and execute the guidelines given, not to play cowboy.

That guys like this get away with BS more often than not is out of question.

Sorry but this is all I have to say. I made my point

https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/corporate/publications-manuals/operational-bulletins-manuals/service-delivery/coronavirus/temporary-residence/study-permit.html

Foreign nationals who had a study permit application approved after March 18, 2020 will be sent a letter (push notification) advising them that

• they may not be exempt from the travel restrictions
• they should not make any plans to travel to Canada until the travel restrictions are lifted, as they will not be allowed to travel to or enter Canada'

Border services officers will assess the circumstances surrounding the student’s travel and consider, for example, whether any of the following apply:

• they are established, residing and studying in Canada. If they are established in Canada, their return is non-discretionary
• they are expected to begin studying upon arrival after completing their quarantine
• their presence in Canada is necessary for their continued participation in the program (such as in laboratories or workshops)
• pursuing online studies is not an option for their school or program or not possible from their home country (for example, due to internet restrictions or bandwidth limitation)
• the semester has been cancelled or the person will begin studying later in the year

A border services officer will make a final determination on the foreign national’s eligibility to enter Canada at the port of entry.

Given guidelines and regulations do not allow exemptions from the travel restrictions for permits approved after March 18, 2020. Still there are people allowed in after March 18, 2020 if you read through this forum.

The CBSA officer applied DISCRETION in issuing OP's wife her permit and allowed her entry AGAINST official directives.

If you say that CBSA does not do their job properly, you are saying that OP's wife should not have gotten her permit. Is that it?

 

[Matt173]

Dude, read more carefully. OP got his study permit approved before March 18. And we are talking about the support letter from the University. You have gone completely off the reservation. This is my last reply to you.

And you keep talking absolute nonsense. Even for those approved after March 18 the border agent is given guidelines how to assess the individual case. You posted it yourself. Nowhere does it say that anyone approved after March 18 should be automatically rejected. If you come from the US, even as foreign national, the approval date is entirely irrelevant. Do your homework before you open your mouth. Goodness. It's aggravating to debate with you. Best wishes but I am done.

https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/corporate/publications-manuals/operational-bulletins-manuals/service-delivery/coronavirus/temporary-residence/study-permit.html

Foreign nationals who had a study permit application approved after March 18, 2020 will be sent a letter (push notification) advising them that

• they may not be exempt from the travel restrictions
• they should not make any plans to travel to Canada until the travel restrictions are lifted, as they will not be allowed to travel to or enter Canada'

Border services officers will assess the circumstances surrounding the student’s travel and consider, for example, whether any of the following apply:

• they are established, residing and studying in Canada. If they are established in Canada, their return is non-discretionary
• they are expected to begin studying upon arrival after completing their quarantine
• their presence in Canada is necessary for their continued participation in the program (such as in laboratories or workshops)
• pursuing online studies is not an option for their school or program or not possible from their home country (for example, due to internet restrictions or bandwidth limitation)
• the semester has been cancelled or the person will begin studying later in the year

A border services officer will make a final determination on the foreign national’s eligibility to enter Canada at the port of entry.

Given guidelines and regulations do not allow exemptions from the travel restrictions for permits approved after March 18, 2020. Still there are people allowed in after March 18, 2020 if you read through this forum.

The CBSA officer applied DISCRETION in issuing OP's wife her permit and allowed her entry AGAINST official directives.

If you say that CBSA does not do their job properly, you are saying that OP's wife should not have gotten her permit. Is that it?

 

[jweekend]

Dude, read more carefully. OP got his study permit approved before March 18. And we are talking about the support letter from the University. You have gone completely off the reservation. This is my last reply to you.

I know OP got his permits before March 18, obviously. It is an example showing how CBSA may exercise discretion in issuing permits at the border.

Like OP said, he was refused entry because his travel was non-essential, not because his permit was issued after March 18. Implying his wife's travel was also non-essential. However, CBSA allow his wife in, completely against the guidelines (if you have read it), at his or her own discretion.

 

[Matt173]

Or implying one agent read the support letter from the university and the other could not give a damn.

I know OP got his permits before March 18, obviously. It is an example showing how CBSA may exercise discretion in issuing permits at the border.

Like OP said, he was refused entry because his travel was non-essential, not because his permit was issued after March 18. Implying his wife's travel was also non-essential. However, CBSA allow his wife in, completely against the guidelines (if you have read it), at his or her own discretion.

 

[jigzyy]

Or implying one agent read the support letter from the university and the other could not give a damn.

... Which happens at almost every job where a person has to pass on a judgement. One may exercise a decision lot more cautiously while the other may not. One could be a seasoned CBSA officer and the other could be a newbie or not so seasoned to risk his job. Too many factors.

 

[Matt173]

Very true. Though one would think the amount of skills and work experience to remove garbage does not correlate with the skill level and level of professionalism of a border agent.

... Which happens at almost every job where a person has to pass on a judgement. One may exercise a decision lot more cautiously while the other may not. One could be a seasoned CBSA officer and the other could be a newbie or not so seasoned to risk his job. Too many factors.

 

[GradStudent18]

Or implying one agent read the support letter from the university and the other could not give a damn.

OP's "travel support letter" was from a COLLEGE, not from a publicly-funded university.


Most public universities are refusing to give such a letter, saying the "student's presence in Canada is essential even if s/he has online classes". I'm not getting such a letter from my public university, and know several others who are also not getting the letter from their university.


They say if classes are ONLINE, then, we are supposed to study remotely from home & that our travel & entry is NOT ESSENTIAL currently for the fall term.


Giving such a "travel support letter" is actually against IRCC's rules of barring "non-essential" entry. OP has online classes for the fall & needs to attend synchronized sessions - meaning "real-time" classes, but online nevertheless. This makes it fully possible to study remotely from home, thereby making entry into Canada ( for studying online courses ) NON-ESSENTIAL.


I have proof that many COLLEGES are giving falsified "travel support letters", that wrongly state that the student's presence in Canada is essential, when, in fact, it is not so.


One just needs to look through this forum to see that students get such fake letters from colleges and gain entry into Canada, because they get lucky to be let in by the border officer they encounter.


All this is in direct contravention of the regulation to NOT ALLOW non-essential entry into Canada. Unfortunately, such fake support letters from colleges have facilitated the entry of many, many international students from different countries into Canada since mid-late June.


IRCC should put up clearly on their website that "online classes are non-essential", & should also issue clear guidelines to the CBSA to prevent anybody with online classes from entering. This rule of "discretion" of the officer is creating a lot of inconsistency & gaps, making it unfair for those who're not allowed to board a flight from their home country due to online classes being "non-essential".

Discretion of the officer applies during normal times, when the officer has to apply the relevant guidelines to judge whether someone could be allowed entry. Now, the guidelines themselves are all over the place; "discretion" of the officer now only means confusion, and entry into Canada is being allowed despite such entry being "non-essential" & against the rules, like the OP's wife (online classes with no "physical" lab component that can't be done remotely online, I presume).

I hope IRCC & the CBSA work asap to fix this inconsistency in their operations.


Allowing some in & some deported with exactly the same documents is something I've been hearing a lot nowadays on Twitter as well!

 

[GradStudent18]

https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/corporate/publications-manuals/operational-bulletins-manuals/service-delivery/coronavirus/temporary-residence/study-permit.html

Foreign nationals who had a study permit application approved after March 18, 2020 will be sent a letter (push notification) advising them that

• they may not be exempt from the travel restrictions
• they should not make any plans to travel to Canada until the travel restrictions are lifted, as they will not be allowed to travel to or enter Canada'

Border services officers will assess the circumstances surrounding the student’s travel and consider, for example, whether any of the following apply:

• they are established, residing and studying in Canada. If they are established in Canada, their return is non-discretionary
• they are expected to begin studying upon arrival after completing their quarantine
• their presence in Canada is necessary for their continued participation in the program (such as in laboratories or workshops)
• pursuing online studies is not an option for their school or program or not possible from their home country (for example, due to internet restrictions or bandwidth limitation)
• the semester has been cancelled or the person will begin studying later in the year

A border services officer will make a final determination on the foreign national’s eligibility to enter Canada at the port of entry.

Given guidelines and regulations do not allow exemptions from the travel restrictions for permits approved after March 18, 2020. Still there are people allowed in after March 18, 2020 if you read through this forum.

The CBSA officer applied DISCRETION in issuing OP's wife her permit and allowed her entry AGAINST official directives.

If you say that CBSA does not do their job properly, you are saying that OP's wife should not have gotten her permit. Is that it?

That's correct. People bring fake letters from COLLEGES stating presence is essential even with FULLY ONLINE classes for the fall (which is, in fact, a non-essential purpose for entry).

And they are being allowed in everyday by the CBSA. I've seen innumerable such accounts.

I really hope they can stick to one thing & apply the same rule for all students, without this "discretion of the officer" wrecking enormous confusion in whether or not someone will be allowed in.

Hope they fix this issue asap.

 

[GradStudent18]

I hope you get proved right about the vast majority of international students not having entered yet.


I see/read about so many students posting that they've entered Canada smoothly without any problems with CBSA, and without any questions asked whatsoever about the mode of learning (online/in-class). Every time I come across any such post, I get an anxiety attack about missing out on account of not travelling/entering.


There are so many posts like that in this forum, as well as on twitter. Unfortunately, the colleges are indeed issuing fake letters saying that "presence is essential", when in reality, it's actually not so. So many instances where I came across students saying so themselves.


Unfortunately, now, it's all just about getting "lucky" enough to enter Canda, by hook or by crook. No one ( including CBSA ) seems to be bothered about actually following the regulations that deem online COLLEGE classes ( that are not research-intensive, no research seminar/lab, no graduate thesis ) to be "non-essential" for entry.


I agree with what you've said about graduate level studies. I so agree with all that. They should not actually be doing this "essential" versus "non-essential" argument at the graduate Master's & PhD level. We know how and to what extent our presence there is indeed most essential, though there's no "written statement/travel letter" to support that.


I need access to the data repositories on campus for my regular coursework as well as for my research component; books & resources from the library, academic journal access, etc., for my graduate level program. I can never get those critical inputs which are indispensable for the program, at home. I cannot tell you how much I relate to the point about how a meaningful participation in the program and my graduate research thesis will all be affected due to the time zone issue and remote online learning.


Yet, the university out-right refused to give a supporting document confirming these constraints.


Apparently, without this letter, we are unable to technically & officially "prove" to CBSA that our presence is essential. They have somehow mandated that, for entry into Canada, such a letter has to be procured by the student from the institution & verified by CBSA.


Airlines in my part of the world refuse to allow students to board the aircraft without that letter which says "presence is mandatory due to in-person classes".


I so wish IRCC realizes that at the graduate level, our performance and success depends very highly on being able to participate by actually "being there in person". And that the advanced level of a graduate degree automatically makes such students' entry essential, as there are so many critical resources and activities that are impossible to be done remotely from home, sitting more than half a day away. I so wish they declare that they'll allow Master's and PhD students inside, at least by December if not now.

 

[Matt173]

I agree and can appreciate most all of the points that you made. If there ever was a phase-in I would say giving graduate students and PhDs the first go would make perfect sense.

I hope you get proved right about the vast majority of international students not having entered yet.


I see/read about so many students posting that they've entered Canada smoothly without any problems with CBSA, and without any questions asked whatsoever about the mode of learning (online/in-class). Every time I come across any such post, I get an anxiety attack about missing out on account of not travelling/entering.


There are so many posts like that in this forum, as well as on twitter. Unfortunately, the colleges are indeed issuing fake letters saying that "presence is essential", when in reality, it's actually not so. So many instances where I came across students saying so themselves.


Unfortunately, now, it's all just about getting "lucky" enough to enter Canda, by hook or by crook. No one ( including CBSA ) seems to be bothered about actually following the regulations that deem online COLLEGE classes ( that are not research-intensive, no research seminar/lab, no graduate thesis ) to be "non-essential" for entry.


I agree with what you've said about graduate level studies. I so agree with all that. They should not actually be doing this "essential" versus "non-essential" argument at the graduate Master's & PhD level. We know how and to what extent our presence there is indeed most essential, though there's no "written statement/travel letter" to support that.


I need access to the online data repositories on campus for my regular coursework as well as for my research component; books & resources from the library, academic journal access, etc., for my graduate level program. I can never get those critical inputs which are indispensable for the program, at home. I cannot tell you how much I relate to the point about how a meaningful participation in the program and my graduate research thesis will all be affected due to the time zone issue and remote online learning.


Yet, the university out-right refused to give a supporting document confirming these constraints.


Apparently, without this letter, we are unable to technically & officially "prove" to CBSA that our presence is essential. They have somehow mandated that, for entry into Canada, such a letter has to be procured by the student from the institution & verified by CBSA.


Airlines in my part of the world refuse to allow students to board the aircraft without that letter which says "presence is mandatory due to in-person classes".


I so wish IRCC realizes that at the graduate level, our performance and success depends very highly on being able to participate by actually "being there in person". And that the advanced level of a graduate degree automatically makes such students' entry essential, as there are so many critical resources and activities that are impossible to be done remotely from home, sitting more than half a day away. I so wish they declare that they'll allow Master's and PhD students inside, at least by December if not now.

 

[GradStudent18]

I too want to go the absolutely honest way 100%, since my reasons are, in fact, genuine and true. CBSA can check with anyone / anything to confirm the huge, huge constraints I'll face studying remotely from home.


I need to successfully participate in the program, and that needs my physical presence there. My travel & entry IS, OF COURSE, ESSENTIAL, just to "successfully participate", not even to "excel" in the program.

Unfortunately, I don't have any support letter to prove this. All I can do is thoroughly explain my situation & appeal to their good sense to understand the challenges we graduate students face.

I also hope they officially, clearly announce on their website that graduate students can enter.

 

[Impatient Dankaroo]

I hope you get proved right about the vast majority of international students not having entered yet.


I see/read about so many students posting that they've entered Canada smoothly without any problems with CBSA, and without any questions asked whatsoever about the mode of learning (online/in-class). Every time I come across any such post, I get an anxiety attack about missing out on account of not travelling/entering.


There are so many posts like that in this forum, as well as on twitter. Unfortunately, the colleges are indeed issuing fake letters saying that "presence is essential", when in reality, it's actually not so. So many instances where I came across students saying so themselves.


Unfortunately, now, it's all just about getting "lucky" enough to enter Canda, by hook or by crook. No one ( including CBSA ) seems to be bothered about actually following the regulations that deem online COLLEGE classes ( that are not research-intensive, no research seminar/lab, no graduate thesis ) to be "non-essential" for entry.


I agree with what you've said about graduate level studies. I so agree with all that. They should not actually be doing this "essential" versus "non-essential" argument at the graduate Master's & PhD level. We know how and to what extent our presence there is indeed most essential, though there's no "written statement/travel letter" to support that.


I need access to the online data repositories on campus for my regular coursework as well as for my research component; books & resources from the library, academic journal access, etc., for my graduate level program. I can never get those critical inputs which are indispensable for the program, at home. I cannot tell you how much I relate to the point about how a meaningful participation in the program and my graduate research thesis will all be affected due to the time zone issue and remote online learning.


Yet, the university out-right refused to give a supporting document confirming these constraints.


Apparently, without this letter, we are unable to technically & officially "prove" to CBSA that our presence is essential. They have somehow mandated that, for entry into Canada, such a letter has to be procured by the student from the institution & verified by CBSA.


Airlines in my part of the world refuse to allow students to board the aircraft without that letter which says "presence is mandatory due to in-person classes".


I so wish IRCC realizes that at the graduate level, our performance and success depends very highly on being able to participate by actually "being there in person". And that the advanced level of a graduate degree automatically makes such students' entry essential, as there are so many critical resources and activities that are impossible to be done remotely from home, sitting more than half a day away. I so wish they declare that they'll allow Master's and PhD students inside, at least by December if not now.

Colleges have become a money making scheme in Canada. They are issuing out these letters so that students do not ask for refunds. It is all about profit. Some guy said that they issued him a 'mandatory classes letter' and told him that it was going to be all online.