Reapplying immediately after a TRV refusal

[toby]

Many applications for a temporary visa (TRV) to Canada are rejected because the applicants don’t have bonds strong enough to make them return to the home country.

The form letter of refusal from Canada also advises against re-applying unless the applicant has some new evidence. Since most applicants have done the best job they can with the first application, and have no new evidence to offer, so they give up.

An acquaintance who works wit VOs in a Canadian embassy has a different take on this: apparently it CAN be useful to immediately re-apply, with the same application and same evidence. Here`s why.

The average VO has something like 45 seconds to assess each application for a TRV. Why so many applications? Partly because travel agencies will submit multiple applications for a single client to many countries, hoping for at least one approval out of the many refusals.

So the overworked VO will routinely refuse applications unless there is a compelling reason to approve. But if the applicant re-submits, challenging the VO’s reasoning in a cover letter, but essentially drawing the VO’s attention to the strong evidence already presented in the original application, then the VO has to pay more serious attention, and the chances of approval rise significantly. Essentially the applicant is taking his application out of the big pile of applications in the first in-basket and putting it in the smaller pile for special VO consideration.

At least that’s what my “insider source” says. So, if you want a TRV, apply early, giving yourself enough time to re-apply. If you really want to make the best case, give yourself time to get the CAIPS notes after the first refusal, then address those VO concerns in the new cover letter.

As a closing thought / question, I wonder if it would improve chances of approval if in the first cover letter you were to state that you are applying so far in advance of the travel date precisely to give yourself time to get the CAIPS notes, rebut, and re-apply

 

[tthordarson]

Thank you Toby for sharing this with us.

It's totally ridiculous that the Canadian government doesn't want to provide enough resources so every application gets more than 45 seconds of consideration for the $75 that a submitted TRV application costs before it's decided to reject it. It's totally unfair.

 

[toby]

The fee helps pay for the parties and expenses of the embassy.

Really, embassies cost a lot of money. What benefits do they provide Canadians abroad?

They do offer a commercial support to businessmen. They do provide passports and visas. But this is all, as far as I can see, and these services could be provided MUCH more efficiently and cheaply with small offices, rather than by lavish embassies.

And when you ask an embassy for help, they seem irritated that you have the nerve!! Clearly they see their role and something other than serving the Canadian public. Employees seem more interested in getting invited to the next glamorous party, or getting the next promotion!

If I were King of Canada for a day, I'd adopt the approach of New Zealand a few decades ago, when they had too much dead wood in their bureaucracy, and was on the edge of bankruptcy. They Minister of Finance basically fired all bureaucrats on a Friday, and on the next Monday asked every one to reapply for the job by answering three questions: :

1) The job you do, does it need to be done?
If the bureaucrat could not justify the job, could not show that it was useful to the taxpaying public, he/she didn't get hired back.

2) If the job is necessary, who should do it?
If the bureaucrat could not show that it needed to be dome by government, not the private sector, he did not get hired back.

3) Who should pay for it?
That is, if the job should be done by government, how should users pay for the service: through taxes or out of pocket (user pay)?

By that means, New Zealand reduced an overburdening bureaucracy substantially, and this measure helped stave off bankruptcy in the late 1980's. Canada went through a spate of cost reduction in the late 1990's, but did not cut deeply enough to judge by the embassies.

 

[tthordarson]

The fee helps pay for the parties and expenses of the embassy.

Really, embassies cost a lot of money. What benefits do they provide Canadians abroad?

They do offer a commercial support to businessmen. They do provide passports and visas. But this is all, as far as I can see, and these services could be provided MUCH more efficiently and cheaply with small offices, rather than by lavish embassies.

And when you ask an embassy for help, they seem irritated that you have the nerve!! Clearly they see their role and something other than serving the Canadian public. Employees seem more interested in getting invited to the next glamorous party, or getting the next promotion!

If I were King of Canada for a day, I'd adopt the approach of New Zealand a few decades ago, when they had too much dead wood in their bureaucracy, and was on the edge of bankruptcy. They Minister of Finance basically fired all bureaucrats on a Friday, and on the next Monday asked every one to reapply for the job by answering three questions: :

1) The job you do, does it need to be done?
If the bureaucrat could not justify the job, could not show that it was useful to the taxpaying public, he/she didn't get hired back.

2) If the job is necessary, who should do it?
If the bureaucrat could not show that it needed to be dome by government, not the private sector, he did not get hired back.

3) Who should pay for it?
That is, if the job should be done by government, how should users pay for the service: through taxes or out of pocket (user pay)?

By that means, New Zealand reduced an overburdening bureaucracy substantially, and this measure helped stave off bankruptcy in the late 1980's. Canada went through a spate of cost reduction in the late 1990's, but did not cut deeply enough to judge by the embassies.

I agree with everything you said. I'm from Iceland and we have relatively small embassies wherever we can have any. Usually we share buildings with other embassies(mainly the Scandinavian ones) and in cases consular services are needed for Iceland where there are no embassies, other Scandinavian embassies provide them on Iceland's behalf. In the past years before I ever needed to travel anywhere where visa was required I had only needed consular services every now and then from the Icelandic embassies, they answer the phone, they are polite and helpful and they are accessible. Once I had to deal with a Canadian embassy to come here, I was shocked at how limited access to it was and the lack of assistance(or shall I say NON-EXISTING) there was for visa applications.

I don't know exactly if I want to make you a king(as I don't know all your views) but you surely may become foreign relations dictator

 

[itscoezy]

Thanks for the insight. Has anyone tried this?

 

[wants2bw/myhubbysoon]

Thanks for the insight. Has anyone tried this?

Hi! I have tried this hoping that I would be able to go to Canada after our wedding. I applied twice and got rejected twice. We resent our application 1 month after the first rejection. We've shown them bank accounts and told them that I have a job and business here that I cant just leave for life. And that is really our plan (we will just spend spring and summer in Canada and return back to my country by the end of summer). But I think because my husband is a Canadian citizen, they did not believe that. Now, we are applying for a permanent visa and hoping to get a positive response from them soon.

 

[itscoezy]

Hi! I have tried this hoping that I would be able to go to Canada after our wedding. I applied twice and got rejected twice. We resent our application 1 month after the first rejection. We've shown them bank accounts and told them that I have a job and business here that I cant just leave for life. And that is really our plan (we will just spend spring and summer in Canada and return back to my country by the end of summer). But I think because my husband is a Canadian citizen, they did not believe that. Now, we are applying for a permanent visa and hoping to get a positive response from them soon.

Goodluck! We just mailed our second application today after it was refused. I am in a similar situation. My boyfriend is Mexican, I'm Canadian. We both live in Mexico but he's getting refused to go to Canada to meet my family.

Goodluck to you, hope everything works out with PR

 

[steaky]

The fee helps pay for the parties and expenses of the embassy.

Really, embassies cost a lot of money. What benefits do they provide Canadians abroad?

I remembered my dad told me many years ago when he was being robbed in South Africa, came out penniless after escaped from kidnappers, he went to the Canadian embassy for assistance. The embassy gave him food, shelter and other immediate support. The embassy also helped him to get his new credit card and Canadian passport.

 

[toby]

I remembered my dad told me many years ago when he was being robbed in South Africa, came out penniless after escaped from kidnappers, he went to the Canadian embassy for assistance. The embassy gave him food, shelter and other immediate support. The embassy also helped him to get his new credit card and Canadian passport.

But read Tthordarson's post above. Iceland embassies provide these services at a much lower cost, and are more available as well.

 

[threa]

I beeen sponsored by my common-law partner and our application is in process starting May 31 2011. I have an Implied status right now since i applied for an open work permit together with the sponsorship application before my work permit expired. Im
Not working anymore coz my employer didnt renew my contract. Now, we plan on visiting the Philippines so we dicided to apply for a visit visa so i can still go back here in Canada but unfortunately it got refused. Im wondering whats my chances of getting an approved visa if i reapply coz we didnt mention on that refused visit visa that we're planning to visit Phils and you think providing the booked plane ticket goibg to the Phils would help if i reapply? Please help coz everything is planned for this trip

 

[pallaviip]

Hi,

My name is Pallavi. My husband is in Canada on work permit status. My husband having a valid Canadian work permit which is applicable till January 2015. I am in India, Pune, Maharashtra. I am working as lecturer in Engineering college since July 2010. I got married in February, 2012. I want to go to Canada to accompany my Husband.

I have applied TRV but it got rejected. Canadian High commission has also mentioned some reasons for that as given below.

"I have completed my assessment of your application and I have determined that you do not meet the requirements for TRV; therefore ur application is refused.

In reaching a decision, an officer considers several factors; These may include the applicant's travel & identity documents. reason for travel to Canada, Contacts in Canada. financial means for the trip, ties to country of residence (including immigration status, employement and family ties) and whether the applicant would be likely to leave canada at the end of his/her authorised stay. "

I have submitted all necessary docs. which includes -

My Docs:
1. Marriage Certificate
2. Wedding Invitation Card
3. Few wedding photographs
4. Pay slips recent 3 pay cycles
5. Employer Offer letter, Employer leave sanction letter for six months (from July till Dec)
6. Bank statements for last six months (shown balance of 2 Lacs)
7. Proof of other investments- FD ( Total of Rs. 60,000)
8. Educational background - Graduation Certificate
9. Income tax returns - Form 16A for past 3 years

Husband's Documents:
1. Passport all page photocopies including blank pages
2. Copies of all Work permits
3. Employment Verification Letter
4. Proof of Accommodation like electricity bills, water bills
5. Income tax returns
6. Employer’s w/2 tax return
7. Recent three pay cycles photocopies
8. Affidavit of support letter stating the financial support
9. Covering letter stating the purpose showing that I am going to celebrate My b'day(16th Aug) & my husband's b'day(31st Aug) and & period of stay from 1st August to 30th October.
10. Bank statements (shown balance of CAD $ 10,500)

Is Anything else required? Please suggest me, how can I apply to go there to accompany to my husband.Please help as soon as you can.

pls reply me its very urgent....

Regards
Pallavi

 

[userA]

What is the reason mentioned on second page of refusal letter? The reason you have mentioned is probably from page 1 and this is a generic reason used for all applicants. You should have a more specific reason mentioned in your letter of refusal.

 

[pallaviip]

What is the reason mentioned on second page of refusal letter? The reason you have mentioned is probably from page 1 and this is a generic reason used for all applicants. You should have a more specific reason mentioned in your letter of refusal.

Hello,

Thank you for your reply.

I got refusal letter of one page only with the reasons posted above. Does there exist second page also? If so, whom should I contact for that?

Thanks,
Pallavi

 

[userA]

Whatever you have on your refusal letter is a generic template which is used for refusals. In addition to this information, you should have some information specific to your case in the refusal letter. It should read something like...
"You have not provided your host's income and assets information"
OR
"I am not satisfied that you have sufficient funds, including income or assets to carry out your stated purpose in going to Canada or to maintain yourself in Canada and to effect your departure." etc..

It should be mentioned in same letter you have received. This gives a better understanding of why your application was rejected. If you do not get this information then you can order GCMS notes (your husband will need to do that from within Canada). These are notes created by visa officer while accessing your application and she/he needs to write the reason for rejecting your application in these notes.

Here is how you can do that : http://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/latest-caips-gcms-notes-forms-and-how-to-order-t99210.0.html

 

[pallaviip]

Whatever you have on your refusal letter is a generic template which is used for refusals. In addition to this information, you should have some information specific to your case in the refusal letter. It should read something like...
"You have not provided your host's income and assets information"
OR
"I am not satisfied that you have sufficient funds, including income or assets to carry out your stated purpose in going to Canada or to maintain yourself in Canada and to effect your departure." etc..

It should be mentioned in same letter you have received. This gives a better understanding of why your application was rejected. If you do not get this information then you can order GCMS notes (your husband will need to do that from within Canada). These are notes created by visa officer while accessing your application and she/he needs to write the reason for rejecting your application in these notes.

Hello,

Today my agent gave me the second page of refusal which shows following reasons of refusal

1. Your Travel History
2. Your Family ties in Canada and in your country of residence
3. You have not provided sufficient documentation to support your/ your host's income and assets

Its true that I have not traveled anywhere before. I have submitted the marriage certificate, mine and my husband's salary slips, bank statements, Tax returns etc. I am not getting what document they are expecting.

Please help me to get out of it.


Thank You,
Pallavi