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Please share the experience who stayed 4 years outside canada and returned back without any issue.

canuck78

VIP Member
Jun 18, 2017
55,588
13,519
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/small-business/sb-growth/glut-of-dentists-causes-aches-in-canadas-big-cities/article36322773/. The recent dental grads and dentists I know say the job market is rough these days. Canadian government didn’t protect both the Canadian dentists or pharmacists and now salaries are decreasing.

Had a read through most of your recent posts. Find it pretty ironic that you bashed Canada in general and their dental and medical schools over Indian ones because Canadian schools only allowed the wealthy to join (incorrect btw) and then went and attended a US dental school which is far more expensive. Also took advantage of the student loan as soon as you got your PR used to attend a US school and then left knowing you would wouldn’t be able to meet your RO if you planned to work at least a year.
 

SecularFirst

Hero Member
Nov 21, 2015
435
57
Canadian schools do not allow non PR to attend, I made the choice and gladly accepted the US opportunity at the time. I have got no regrets. I am paying my student loan regularly. I am really happy with the choices I made. I only want to know the technical and legal issues in my situation. Although I am losing express entry points due to age every year but i am still in my early 30s and 6-7 years from now, would still be easily getting over 500 points as I have Canadian Masters, Canadian work experience. I am glad I put my professional career ahead of maintaining PR and now in a situation where I can easily migrate to number of developed countries. I bashed Canadian schools as their system is very regressive. They take only PRs in medical and dental and they still consider then international and charge international student fee.
 

SecularFirst

Hero Member
Nov 21, 2015
435
57
I am certain my wife will get her PR and I am considering renouncing my PR and then adding myself to her application to reset the RO time. I am paying my student loan on time, I could pay all of them right now but I am only paying minimum so that if in case I need to appeal, I can mention them to Canadian immigration in future. And by the way I worked in Canada for 4 years, paid taxes, paid 50k for my Canadian masters, volunteered my time at low income clinics and then took student loan. I have contributed something to the system unlike few who start taking social assistance soon after landing.
 

Copingwithlife

VIP Member
Jul 29, 2018
4,480
2,255
Earth
I am certain my wife will get her PR and I am considering renouncing my PR and then adding myself to her application to reset the RO time. I am paying my student loan on time, I could pay all of them right now but I am only paying minimum so that if in case I need to appeal, I can mention them to Canadian immigration in future. And by the way I worked in Canada for 4 years, paid taxes, paid 50k for my Canadian masters, volunteered my time at low income clinics and then took student loan. I have contributed something to the system unlike few who start taking social assistance soon after landing.
Ok, after reading the same mantra OVER and OVER again from people, it is EXPECTED that someone pays taxes when they work in Canada, you are NOT special, nor are you going to get that little gold star you seem to be wanting, just because you did that. It sounds ridiculous and self serving
 
Last edited:

SecularFirst

Hero Member
Nov 21, 2015
435
57
I dont need any gold star, All I am saying is I did my part. It’s not that I took PR, got loan and left Canada and took advantage of Canada. All I am asking here is an advice regarding legal and technical aspects. I am quite happy where I am now, still want to know my options because why not, everyone has this right.
 

zardoz

VIP Member
Feb 2, 2013
13,298
2,167
Canada
Category........
FAM
Visa Office......
London
App. Filed.......
16-02-2013
VISA ISSUED...
31-07-2013
LANDED..........
09-11-2013
I am certain my wife will get her PR and I am considering renouncing my PR and then adding myself to her application to reset the RO time. I am paying my student loan on time, I could pay all of them right now but I am only paying minimum so that if in case I need to appeal, I can mention them to Canadian immigration in future. And by the way I worked in Canada for 4 years, paid taxes, paid 50k for my Canadian masters, volunteered my time at low income clinics and then took student loan. I have contributed something to the system unlike few who start taking social assistance soon after landing.
To me, that reads as "If you don't let me in, I won't pay back my student loan!". Maybe it's just the language barrier?

Why would it be relevant?
 
Last edited:

SecularFirst

Hero Member
Nov 21, 2015
435
57
I am not saying I wont it back. I never said that. I am not in the country and if I could have stopped right now but that’s not who I am. I mentioned all this to get an advise if given all these, I have a strong appeal case in future. You are free to make whatever you want out of it.
 

eeltamo

Member
Dec 8, 2012
11
0
Hi all,

appreciate if you can share your experience or you know someone had the same or something similar to mine.
i landed in Canada in March 2015, my PR card will expire May-2020. i stayed in Canada for only 2 weeks and had to travel back and was searching for job remotely but couldn't find and that's why i decided not to move till i find job , specially i have 3 kids.
recently, i managed to find a job and i am planning to move with the whole family. my concern that i haven't meet the residency obligation (3-4 months left in my PR card, so that may trigger some questions at the PoE). however i should have job offer, have 3 kids and my travelling with me. is that enough to show that i am planning to settle and the officer doesn't initiate the departure order for me and the family ?

Thanks
 

zardoz

VIP Member
Feb 2, 2013
13,298
2,167
Canada
Category........
FAM
Visa Office......
London
App. Filed.......
16-02-2013
VISA ISSUED...
31-07-2013
LANDED..........
09-11-2013
Hi all,

appreciate if you can share your experience or you know someone had the same or something similar to mine.
i landed in Canada in March 2015, my PR card will expire May-2020. i stayed in Canada for only 2 weeks and had to travel back and was searching for job remotely but couldn't find and that's why i decided not to move till i find job , specially i have 3 kids.
recently, i managed to find a job and i am planning to move with the whole family. my concern that i haven't meet the residency obligation (3-4 months left in my PR card, so that may trigger some questions at the PoE). however i should have job offer, have 3 kids and my travelling with me. is that enough to show that i am planning to settle and the officer doesn't initiate the departure order for me and the family ?

Thanks
With only a very small amount of time in Canada since you landed, the extent of the non-compliance and the apparent complete lack of H&C factors?
I personally doubt that your chances are particularly good if you are reported. Other people may have a different personal opinion of course.

What are your family member's immigration statuses?
 
Last edited:

canuck78

VIP Member
Jun 18, 2017
55,588
13,519
Hi all,

appreciate if you can share your experience or you know someone had the same or something similar to mine.
i landed in Canada in March 2015, my PR card will expire May-2020. i stayed in Canada for only 2 weeks and had to travel back and was searching for job remotely but couldn't find and that's why i decided not to move till i find job , specially i have 3 kids.
recently, i managed to find a job and i am planning to move with the whole family. my concern that i haven't meet the residency obligation (3-4 months left in my PR card, so that may trigger some questions at the PoE). however i should have job offer, have 3 kids and my travelling with me. is that enough to show that i am planning to settle and the officer doesn't initiate the departure order for me and the family ?

Thanks
Residency isn’t related to your PR. RO must be met in 5 years from your landing date. Did all your children and your wife land with you in 2015? Most families are unable to find jobs abroad and have to find employment from Canada so not really a good reason. If people are concerned about supporting a large family before they find employment one parent often arrives before the rest of the family.
 

eeltamo

Member
Dec 8, 2012
11
0
With only a very small amount of time in Canada since you landed, the extent of the non-compliance and the apparent complete lack of H&C factors?
I personally doubt that your chances are particularly good if you are reported. Other people may have a different personal opinion of course.

What are your family member's immigration statuses?
thanks for you response. the family immigration status is like mine. they landed with me and left Canada with me as well.
appreciate your opinion, but do you know real cases close to mine ? if yes, what happened with them ?

Thanks again
 

eeltamo

Member
Dec 8, 2012
11
0
Residency isn’t related to your PR. RO must be met in 5 years from your landing date. Did all your children and your wife land with you in 2015? Most families are unable to find jobs abroad and have to find employment from Canada so not really a good reason. If people are concerned about supporting a large family before they find employment one parent often arrives before the rest of the family.
yes, they all landed with me in 2015 and left as well with me.
i didn't want to leave my wife with 3 kids alone that's why i decided not to stay in canada and leave her till i find a job. i was searching since at least 1.5 years. i did few interviews in the last year, but unfortunately wasn't selected. now i have opportunity to move with my current employer.
do you know case close to mine ? if yes, appreciate if you can share their experience as that will help me to take the decision.

Thanks
 

canuck78

VIP Member
Jun 18, 2017
55,588
13,519
yes, they all landed with me in 2015 and left as well with me.
i didn't want to leave my wife with 3 kids alone that's why i decided not to stay in canada and leave her till i find a job. i was searching since at least 1.5 years. i did few interviews in the last year, but unfortunately wasn't selected. now i have opportunity to move with my current employer.
do you know case close to mine ? if yes, appreciate if you can share their experience as that will help me to take the decision.

Thanks
You really should have been searching starting 4.5 years ago. If you only started searching 1.5 years ago you were never going to be compliant with your RO. It is really about luck. If the CBSA agent wants to report you or not. You don’t actually have a good reason why you haven’t met your RO.
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,435
3,182
Edit to add: see further observations in subsequent post based on an important correction and clarification by @canuck78

Hi all,

appreciate if you can share your experience or you know someone had the same or something similar to mine.
i landed in Canada in March 2015, my PR card will expire May-2020. i stayed in Canada for only 2 weeks and had to travel back and was searching for job remotely but couldn't find and that's why i decided not to move till i find job , specially i have 3 kids.
recently, i managed to find a job and i am planning to move with the whole family. my concern that i haven't meet the residency obligation (3-4 months left in my PR card, so that may trigger some questions at the PoE). however i should have job offer, have 3 kids and my travelling with me. is that enough to show that i am planning to settle and the officer doesn't initiate the departure order for me and the family ?

Thanks
Heads-up I: anecdotal reports of personal experience returning to Canada by PRs in breach of the Residency Obligation range very widely, from PRs who were simply waived into Canada with NO particular examination as to their compliance (or, more to the point, lack of compliance) to those issued a 44(1) Report for Inadmissibility due to the breach of the RO and a Departure Order. Those reports, those experiences, offer very, very little insight into what will for-sure happen when you arrive at a PoE coming to Canada, except to illustrate WHAT COULD HAPPEN. That is, anecdotal reports from other PRs in a similar situation indicate something about how it MIGHT go for you BUT do NOT indicate how it WILL GO.

Heads-up II: there are many discussions about this situation in this forum. The details vary considerably. As noted, the outcomes vary widely. These discussions often include posts addressing the many factors and circumstances which can influence how things go, ranging from the biggest, most influential factor: how much in breach of the RO the PR is (including how long it has been since the last time the PR was in Canada), to less important factors like personal economic/financial reasons for not coming to Canada sooner. The problem, however, is this forum is populated by a great deal of misinformation in this regard. The influence of factors like personal economic/financial reasons for not coming to Canada sooner being among the more common examples of misinformation. To be clear, YES, the fact that you remained abroad so long because of employment opportunities and related decisions CAN and ACTUALLY MUST BE CONSIDERED in assessing H&C factors IF and when you are subject to a RO examination. Indeed, ANY and ALL reasons why it took you as long as it did can and must be considered.

Obviously it is NOT true that you completely lack H&C reasons. Intent to come and stay and settle is a positive H&C reason. Reasonable explanation of personal difficulty making the move sooner due to employment can be a positive factor but does not carry much weight against a big shortfall in meeting the RO. WHICH leads to Heads-up III . . .

Heads-up III: Even though no one here knows anywhere near enough statistical information to venture a reliable guess about how these situations go at the PoE, there are enough reports from PRs who are reported and issued Departure Orders, both anecdotally here and more illuminating as reported in official IAD and Federal Court published decisions, to recognize there is a substantial, perhaps high RISK, you will be reported and issued a Departure Order. Thus, that is a contingency you need to be prepared to deal with. Some prospective immigrants are in a better position to make this move despite the RISKS. For many, they cannot handle the financial impact of uprooting the family only to be compelled to leave Canada, be that sooner or, if an appeal is filed and then lost, later.


OVERALL:

Once you are in breach of the RO there is a real risk that upon arrival at a PoE you will be referred to Secondary, subject to questions in Secondary about RO compliance, and then Reported and issued a Departure Order. You and your family will still be allowed to enter Canada. As Canadians (yes, in Canadian law PRs are Canadians) you are entitled to enter Canada (unless and until there is a final adjudication that your PR status is terminated).

Your best chance depends on the first officer who screens you. BUT your best chances also depend on you being upfront and honest (any impression you are being evasive let alone deceptive will dramatically increase the risk of a negative outcome). So you will be informing the officer right up front, just in the customs declaration alone, that you are in breach because you will necessarily need to reveal it has been more than three years since you were last in Canada. Nonetheless, there is a chance this officer will simply waive you into Canada, in which event you are GOOD-to-GO, meaning GOOD to STAY . . . but of course you will then need to stay TWO FULL YEARS to get into compliance, during which time it will be best to NOT leave Canada and NOT apply for a new PR card when your current cards expire.

Otherwise, if referred to Secondary, be prepared to fully explain your situation, the problems you had in making the move sooner, your intentions, and so on, and hope that a sympathetic CBSA immigration officer gives you a chance to come and stay and settle. If reported you can appeal, and stay and work and so on while the appeal is pending, and that too will be considered a positive H&C factor in the appeal. However, generally it is the first officer who is the most lenient, and PoE officers in Secondary tend to be more lenient than IAD panels (who decide the appeal).

BUT . . . TWO BIG CAUTIONS . . .

-- the RISK you will lose PR status (again either sooner or, if you appeal, later) is substantial, a real RISK; so that is something you and your family need to be prepared to handle if you gamble on coming

-- NO ONE here can reliably forecast how this will go for you​


OTHERWISE: There are many factors which are likely to influence how things go at the PoE. As already noted, the biggest factor already looms large against you: in breach of the RO by nearly a year, perhaps more than a year by the time you come. In contrast, the sooner you come, the better your chances. For the sake of initial impressions, for example, which can influence how it goes, arriving here before the end of 2019 with a PR card that does not expire until 2021 might be just enough the first officer waives you through. This is not to suggest this is likely. Just to note one among many little details which can nudge an official's decision-making in one direction or the other.

In any event, again there are many, many other discussions about similar situations in older topics here, with a lot of discussion about various factors which can influence how things go. You can peruse those discussions to get a better sense of how various factors MIGHT influence how it goes. That said, it will be impossible to credibly quantify the probabilities. Coming will be a gamble without knowing much about the odds.
 
Last edited:

canuck78

VIP Member
Jun 18, 2017
55,588
13,519
Heads-up I: anecdotal reports of personal experience returning to Canada by PRs in breach of the Residency Obligation range very widely, from PRs who were simply waived into Canada with NO particular examination as to their compliance (or, more to the point, lack of compliance) to those issued a 44(1) Report for Inadmissibility due to the breach of the RO and a Departure Order. Those reports, those experiences, offer very, very little insight into what will for-sure happen when you arrive at a PoE coming to Canada, except to illustrate WHAT COULD HAPPEN. That is, anecdotal reports from other PRs in a similar situation indicate something about how it MIGHT go for you BUT do NOT indicate how it WILL GO.

Heads-up II: there are many discussions about this situation in this forum. The details vary considerably. As noted, the outcomes vary widely. These discussions often include posts addressing the many factors and circumstances which can influence how things go, ranging from the biggest, most influential factor: how much in breach of the RO the PR is (including how long it has been since the last time the PR was in Canada), to less important factors like personal economic/financial reasons for not coming to Canada sooner. The problem, however, is this forum is populated by a great deal of misinformation in this regard. The influence of factors like personal economic/financial reasons for not coming to Canada sooner being among the more common examples of misinformation. To be clear, YES, the fact that you remained abroad so long because of employment opportunities and related decisions CAN and ACTUALLY MUST BE CONSIDERED in assessing H&C factors IF and when you are subject to a RO examination. Indeed, ANY and ALL reasons why it took you as long as it did can and must be considered.

Obviously it is NOT true that you completely lack H&C reasons. Intent to come and stay and settle is a positive H&C reason. Reasonable explanation of personal difficulty making the move sooner due to employment can be a positive factor but does not carry much weight against a big shortfall in meeting the RO. WHICH leads to Heads-up III . . .

Heads-up III: Even though no one here knows anywhere near enough statistical information to venture a reliable guess about how these situations go at the PoE, there are enough reports from PRs who are reported and issued Departure Orders, both anecdotally here and more illuminating as reported in official IAD and Federal Court published decisions, to recognize there is a substantial, perhaps high RISK, you will be reported and issued a Departure Order. Thus, that is a contingency you need to be prepared to deal with. Some prospective immigrants are in a better position to make this move despite the RISKS. For many, they cannot handle the financial impact of uprooting the family only to be compelled to leave Canada, be that sooner or, if an appeal is filed and then lost, later.


OVERALL:

Once you are in breach of the RO there is a real risk that upon arrival at a PoE you will be referred to Secondary, subject to questions in Secondary about RO compliance, and then Reported and issued a Departure Order. You and your family will still be allowed to enter Canada. As Canadians (yes, in Canadian law PRs are Canadians) you are entitled to enter Canada (unless and until there is a final adjudication that your PR status is terminated).

Your best chance depends on the first officer who screens you. BUT your best chances also depend on you being upfront and honest (any impression you are being evasive let alone deceptive will dramatically increase the risk of a negative outcome). So you will be informing the officer right up front, just in the customs declaration alone, that you are in breach because you will necessarily need to reveal it has been more than three years since you were last in Canada. Nonetheless, there is a chance this officer will simply waive you into Canada, in which event you are GOOD-to-GO, meaning GOOD to STAY . . . but of course you will then need to stay TWO FULL YEARS to get into compliance, during which time it will be best to NOT leave Canada and NOT apply for a new PR card when your current cards expire.

Otherwise, if referred to Secondary, be prepared to fully explain your situation, the problems you had in making the move sooner, your intentions, and so on, and hope that a sympathetic CBSA immigration officer gives you a chance to come and stay and settle. If reported you can appeal, and stay and work and so on while the appeal is pending, and that too will be considered a positive H&C factor in the appeal. However, generally it is the first officer who is the most lenient, and PoE officers in Secondary tend to be more lenient than IAD panels (who decide the appeal).

BUT . . . TWO BIG CAUTIONS . . .

-- the RISK you will lose PR status (again either sooner or, if you appeal, later) is substantial, a real RISK; so that is something you and your family need to be prepared to handle if you gamble on coming

-- NO ONE here can reliably forecast how this will go for you​


OTHERWISE: There are many factors which are likely to influence how things go at the PoE. As already noted, the biggest factor already looms large against you: in breach of the RO by nearly a year, perhaps more than a year by the time you come. In contrast, the sooner you come, the better your chances. For the sake of initial impressions, for example, which can influence how it goes, arriving here before the end of 2019 with a PR card that does not expire until 2021 might be just enough the first officer waives you through. This is not to suggest this is likely. Just to note one among many little details which can nudge an official's decision-making in one direction or the other.

In any event, again there are many, many other discussions about similar situations in older topics here, with a lot of discussion about various factors which can influence how things go. You can peruse those discussions to get a better sense of how various factors MIGHT influence how it goes. That said, it will be impossible to credibly quantify the probabilities. Coming will be a gamble without knowing much about the odds.
Just want to correct the their PR cards expire in May 2020 and 5 years are up around March 2020.
 
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