Custody Documents for a dependent child who is not coming

[mmaxi]

Hello everybody! I've applied to PR via Express Entry with my wife and our child and we got invited few months ago under the Canadian Experience Class. Everything would be perfect except one thing - this is my second marriage. I have a 5 years old daughter from my last marriage and I was asked to provide her medical exam as she is dependant who is not coming with us. I couldn't perform her medical exam because I have no idea where she lives now with her mother.

When IRCC requested her medical exam I explained them that I'm not able to perform the medical exam because she is unaccessible to me living with her mother (who is deliberately against it just to make my life more complicated). I also signed and sent to IRCC that I understand and agree that I will not be able to sponsor her in future. Right now IRCC is asking for 'Custody Documents: Please provide custody documentation issued by the relevant judicial authority for: <name>'

I don't have that document and according to my country laws, a child can stay with any of parents as long as the other parent doesn't mind that. The law doesn't restrict us to go to court to get a custody document.

What do you think would be the right thing to do in my case? I'm thinking to provide another explanation letter to IRCC where I would explain that I don't have the document they asked.

My questions are:
1. Do you think it's a right thing to do in my case - just to provide an explanation letter?
2. Is that a bad sign they are asking for that kind of documents and may I get rejected because I don't have it? I know that nobody can say for sure, but maybe somebody has a clue why they are asking that even though I've already explained them my situation
Thank you in advance

 

[jes_ON]

Hello everybody! I've applied to PR via Express Entry with my wife and our child and we got invited few months ago under the Canadian Experience Class. Everything would be perfect except one thing - this is my second marriage. I have a 5 years old daughter from my last marriage and I was asked to provide her medical exam as she is dependant who is not coming with us. I couldn't perform her medical exam because I have no idea where she lives now with her mother.

When IRCC requested her medical exam I explained them that I'm not able to perform the medical exam because she is unaccessible to me living with her mother (who is deliberately against it just to make my life more complicated). I also signed and sent to IRCC that I understand and agree that I will not be able to sponsor her in future. Right now IRCC is asking for 'Custody Documents: Please provide custody documentation issued by the relevant judicial authority for: <name>'

I don't have that document and according to my country laws, a child can stay with any of parents as long as the other parent doesn't mind that. The law doesn't restrict us to go to court to get a custody document.

What do you think would be the right thing to do in my case? I'm thinking to provide another explanation letter to IRCC where I would explain that I don't have the document they asked.

My questions are:
1. Do you think it's a right thing to do in my case - just to provide an explanation letter?
2. Is that a bad sign they are asking for that kind of documents and may I get rejected because I don't have it? I know that nobody can say for sure, but maybe somebody has a clue why they are asking that even though I've already explained them my situation
Thank you in advance

So... the reason you are being asked this is because IRCC does not support immigration that is used to abandon or shirk responsibilities towards dependent children. (I am not saying this is your situation, but you have to prove otherwise). The point being, IRCC cannot simply take your word for it.

From your other posts, it looks like you are from Ukraine. According to this -
http://www.international-divorce.com/ukraine_child_abduction.htm
"Absent a court order, parents in Ukraine have equal rights and responsibilities toward their children, regardless of whether they ever marry."

If you had a legal document proving that your ex-spouse had full legal custody of the child, then the child would no longer be considered your dependent and IRCC would let it pass. Otherwise, you would need to somehow prove your attempts to contact your ex and her refusal to allow the exam (a written statement from her may suffice). Suggest you contact a lawyer ASAP.

 

[canuck_in_uk]

Hello everybody! I've applied to PR via Express Entry with my wife and our child and we got invited few months ago under the Canadian Experience Class. Everything would be perfect except one thing - this is my second marriage. I have a 5 years old daughter from my last marriage and I was asked to provide her medical exam as she is dependant who is not coming with us. I couldn't perform her medical exam because I have no idea where she lives now with her mother.

When IRCC requested her medical exam I explained them that I'm not able to perform the medical exam because she is unaccessible to me living with her mother (who is deliberately against it just to make my life more complicated). I also signed and sent to IRCC that I understand and agree that I will not be able to sponsor her in future. Right now IRCC is asking for 'Custody Documents: Please provide custody documentation issued by the relevant judicial authority for: <name>'

I don't have that document and according to my country laws, a child can stay with any of parents as long as the other parent doesn't mind that. The law doesn't restrict us to go to court to get a custody document.

What do you think would be the right thing to do in my case? I'm thinking to provide another explanation letter to IRCC where I would explain that I don't have the document they asked.

My questions are:
1. Do you think it's a right thing to do in my case - just to provide an explanation letter?
2. Is that a bad sign they are asking for that kind of documents and may I get rejected because I don't have it? I know that nobody can say for sure, but maybe somebody has a clue why they are asking that even though I've already explained them my situation
Thank you in advance

Did you submit any proof showing that you actually attempted to get the child's medical done?

 

[mmaxi]

Did you submit any proof showing that you actually attempted to get the child's medical done?

That's the thing, I've submitted detailed explanation letter to IRCC of how I tried to do that and failed along with signed 'No further sponsorship for my daughter'. I can't imagine what kind of proof would it be, I asked my ex verbally in person few times and she said no. I also have a history of messaging with her (as well as calls I've made and which were left without an answer), but it only shows how I asked her about that and she replied with the silence. Why do you think they are asking that?

 

[mmaxi]

So... the reason you are being asked this is because IRCC does not support immigration that is used to abandon or shirk responsibilities towards dependent children. (I am not saying this is your situation, but you have to prove otherwise). The point being, IRCC cannot simply take your word for it.

From your other posts, it looks like you are from Ukraine. According to this -
http://www.international-divorce.com/ukraine_child_abduction.htm
"Absent a court order, parents in Ukraine have equal rights and responsibilities toward their children, regardless of whether they ever marry."

If you had a legal document proving that your ex-spouse had full legal custody of the child, then the child would no longer be considered your dependent and IRCC would let it pass. Otherwise, you would need to somehow prove your attempts to contact your ex and her refusal to allow the exam (a written statement from her may suffice). Suggest you contact a lawyer ASAP.

Thanks for the answer! I already contacted him and as a solution he suggested to write another explanation letter which will explain why I don't have that document and that I'm not restricted by law to have it. What you said totally makes sense to me. But if the case is that they simply check if I don't avoid/shrink my responsibilities for my dependant, then they probably would have asked me to give them proofs that I support that child

 

[jes_ON]

Thanks for the answer! I already contacted him

?? Him who? A Canadian lawyer? A lawyer in your home country? You need a family law lawyer in your home country.

and as a solution he suggested to write another explanation letter which will explain why I don't have that document and that I'm not restricted by law to have it.

Really? Is he hoping you will be refused?

What you said totally makes sense to me. But if the case is that they simply check if I don't avoid/shrink my responsibilities for my dependant, then they probably would have asked me to give them proofs that I support that child

And IRCC is not required by law to approve your application if you fail to convince the VO. You have already provided an explanation letter, IRCC is not going to give you unlimited chances. You need to provide some kind of proof, and a letter from you is not proof.

They DO count the child in your "proof of funds" requirements, which happen to be waived under CEC for you.

They ask that you perform the necessary steps that would enable you to sponsor the child to come to Canada, because in the event that something happened to your ex-wife, YOU would become the child's only parent and guardian. That becomes a legal quagmire if the child cannot legally come live with you.

If you refuse to perform those steps (you have not given IRCC enough proof to know that it is your ex-wife that is refusing), then IRCC has the right to refuse your application.

In any case, I wish you luck - these situations are never easy.

 

[mmaxi]

I just have no idea what kind of proof it could be! I have messages in whatsapp that can confirm my attempts of contacting her at the time. But it can't be actually considered as a proof, because there is no way I can proof that the number I was messaging with belongs to my ex-wife. I would be glad if somebody would give me an example of such proofs. Letter from her is not an option since I can't even contact/locate her

 

[jes_ON]

I just have no idea what kind of proof it could be! I have messages in whatsapp that can confirm my attempts of contacting her at the time. But it can't be actually considered as a proof, because there is no way I can proof that the number I was messaging with belongs to my ex-wife. I would be glad if somebody would give me an example of such proofs. Letter from her is not an option since I can't even contact/locate her

And that is why I recommend you get a lawyer in your home country. You either need court documents proving she has full legal custody, or some kind of external proof of efforts to contact her (or that she cannot be found).

Look, you can try it your way and see if you get lucky, but I've seen several applicants get refused over this. It's your choice whether you want to gamble with a refusal.

 

[jamshedali]

Hi, Can you let me know what was the final result and whether IRCC approved your application?
I have received my COPR and about to marry now so I will be adding my wife and she had a child with previous marriage. She is not in contact with the father or the child and neither does she have the custody paper. She only has the Divorce Order from the court. So we are in a similar situation. What can be done in this situation?

 

[canuck_in_uk]

Hi, Can you let me know what was the final result and whether IRCC approved your application?
I have received my COPR and about to marry now so I will be adding my wife and she had a child with previous marriage. She is not in contact with the father or the child and neither does she have the custody paper. She only has the Divorce Order from the court. So we are in a similar situation. What can be done in this situation?

The answer hasn't changed. She needs full legal custody from the courts.

 

[jamshedali]

The custody of the child is with the father. She is not in contact with either of them. She is making a notarized affidavit regarding the exclusion of her child as dependent. Do we still need to show POF for the child and provide the custody papers proving that the custody is with the father?

 

[canuck_in_uk]

The custody of the child is with the father. She is not in contact with either of them. She is making a notarized affidavit regarding the exclusion of her child as dependent. Do we still need to show POF for the child and provide the custody papers proving that the custody is with the father?

Yes, you need to show POF for the child. Does she have legal papers showing that the father has full legal custody? If not, she needs to contact the father to attempt to get the child's medical done in order to include him/her in the app.

 

[jamshedali]

She has the divorce decree but no papers to show that the father has legal custody. Custody was given on a mutual agreement without any documentation as she was not able to support the child financially. The whereabouts of the father and child is unknown and she is not in any contact with them from the past 9 years, they had sold their house and move to another location which is not known to her. So it is impossible to get any papers from them.
Kindly note that I am the primary applicant and I have no legal connection with the child and I have already received my COPR. I will add her as a dependent after marrying.

 

[canuck_in_uk]

She has the divorce decree but no papers to show that the father has legal custody. Custody was given on a mutual agreement without any documentation as she was not able to support the child financially. The whereabouts of the father and child is unknown and she is not in any contact with them from the past 9 years, they had sold their house and move to another location which is not known to her. So it is impossible to get any papers from them.
Kindly note that I am the primary applicant and I have no legal connection with the child and I have already received my COPR. I will add her as a dependent after marrying.

She needs to document that she attempted to find the child to have him/her medically examined.

 

[jamshedali]

She needs to document that she attempted to find the child to have him/her medically examined.

If she makes a notarized affidavit in my country stating that "she had tried to find the child but could not and since she is not in contact with him from the past 9 years she would like to withdraw her parental rights and that she would never sponsor the child to come to Canada." Will this be a valid document that they would accept?