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Citizenship Interview Took a Wrong Turn

frotenacs

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This is a bit messy. Looks like your friend had no intention of ever settling in SK when he landed - given that he already had a job lined up in Ontario before he landed. That could be misrepresentation on his part. Since you knew that he was not going to settle in SK, it could be perceived that you were in on the plan and trying to help him avoid being found out for misrepresentation.
My situation/understanding is exactly what you said. I knew he is coming under SINP and moving to Toronto after a few days of being in SK. But I did not know that his intention was misrepresenting or committing a fraud. I should have been much careful when handing out my address in WhatsApp.
He only landed 4 weeks ago and has been using my address for the past 4 weeks. Will I be in a better position if he calls IRCC and removes my address from his file? Or, it is too late since CIC brought this up first ?
 

frotenacs

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It is regular standard practice for new immigrants to give a friend or relative's address at landing to facilitate the receipt of a a PR card. This has been recommended on this forum for years. Providing a mailing address is not the same as declaring that as your residence. In fact, IRCC distinguishes between a mailing address and a residential address on most forms. Still, the facts on the ground in the OP's case are a little murky and given that IRCC now appears to have doubts about his declarations a consult with a lawyer is probably a good idea. Are there any good immigration lawyers in SK though?
I have contacted Veeman Law in Saskatoon, but yet to hear a reply. I understand that CIC's suspicion is reasonable considering so many immigration frauds are happening around. I also admit I have committed a mistake. But now I have to convince CIC of my innocence (or lack of knowledge on SINP rules) and no involvement with this misrepresentation. If anybody has any other suggestion please let me know.
 

KRP

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His friend can't change his address via this link as he doesn't have any application in process. This link is only for those with running applications with IRCC
Well bro after reading your post I tried to figure out and found out that if anyone wishes to change address in CIC records he could do it by going to this link provided the person has some running application like pr renewal, citizenship etc with IRCC.
https://services3.cic.gc.ca/ecas/introduction.do?app=coa
For those new comers to Canada who have used their friends or relatives address to get the initial PR card and later not bothered to update their new address after moving to Canada permanently can do so by going to the link below:
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/helpcentre/answer.asp?qnum=622&top=4
 

keesio

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I have contacted Veeman Law in Saskatoon, but yet to hear a reply. I understand that CIC's suspicion is reasonable considering so many immigration frauds are happening around. I also admit I have committed a mistake. But now I have to convince CIC of my innocence (or lack of knowledge on SINP rules) and no involvement with this misrepresentation. If anybody has any other suggestion please let me know.
yes the trick is convincing IRCC (CIC). Perhaps if both you and your friend be completely honest, it can help. But doing so would be your friend fessing up about the misrepresentation.
 

sns204

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Dec 12, 2012
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How long had you know this person before giving them your address? Did you just meet through a WhatsApp group? If so, yeah I agree, you probably should have been more careful. I don't care how well you think you know someone you've only had online contact with, you don't really know who they are and this is a fairly big ask of someone. Please note, I'm not trying to just pile on you. Rather, just in case others are considering doing the same to help a "friend", maybe would reconsider.
 

dpenabill

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For the OP: it appears that this subject has been addressed as comprehensively as this forum can. Odds are probably good you are NOT facing a serious problem, but that is based on what really is only a superficial understanding of what could be relevant facts and circumstances.

The rest of this post is peripherally about such situations generally, addressing some tangents which warrant further attention, and NOT a commentary on yours as such.


My understanding this is not illegal. What you have done is even recommended by IRCC and i quote:
"For PR Cards issued to new immigrants upon entry to Canada (Phase I cards), it may be appropriate for clients to provide the address of a third party (friend, relative, service provider or a paid representative) in Canada in order to facilitate processing and issuance of the card following their arrival in Canada, as new immigrants may not have a permanent address."

@dpenabill, i'm now concerned. I did the same thing with one my friend's friends. He came through Federal Skill worker program and not provincial nomination and he's studying currently in BC. My citizenship application is still in the initial phases. What do you recommend I shall do to avoid this hassle and ensure no misrepresentation is done?
The subject has been covered as well as it can be in a forum like this. Probably no reason to blink, no cause to worry.

But as the OP's situation illustrates, it may depend.

The OP's main exposure is mostly rooted in the particular circumstances, the possible appearance of facilitating a fraud on the system and a provincial nominee program in particular. Even for the OP this may be of very little import, but we do not really know what the extent of exposure is and a forum like this is NOT a suitable venue for getting into sufficient details for us to know, not even if someone here has significant expertise in such matters (I certainly do not).

As others have noted, the use of a friend's or family member's address when landing is very common and there has been no hint that CBSA or IRCC has had concerns about this. Caution: That does not necessarily make it OK. And the fact that it has been frequently recommended in forums like this means very little (unfortunately this forum is rife with recommendations based on what someone can easily get away with rather than what the rules are, and more than a few recommendations which are outright erroneous . . . for years, prospective citizenship applicants who came to Canada as a refugee were advised in this and other forums to obtain a passport before applying for citizenship, even though doing so raised the presumption of reavailment and thus grounds for cessation of their status; sure, most giving that advice were not aware the prospective applicant was a refugee, and the prospective applicant was unaware having refugee status made a difference when applying for citizenship, but that only illustrates how easily and often an important factor is not addressed in the query or the response, all too often leading to bad advice). BUT it does mean it would be rather unusual for there to be a problem merely because a friend or family member has used your address, and it would only be a problem in an unusual circumstance.


A general observation about using other people's address or letting others use one's address:

This is indeed extremely common, in many contexts, for many purposes. And in most contexts, for many purposes, there is either nothing at all wrong with this or it is otherwise allowed. But in some contexts, for some purposes, it can be a misrepresentation or even an outright fraud.

There is a tendency to not distinguish between what is allowed by rule and what is allowed in practice. The difference, however, is important. If something is NOT allowed by rule BUT in general is allowed in practice, there is a risk it will not be allowed in particular instances. Think driving 20k over the limit on the 401. I've done that with impunity, never ticketed. But I recognize the risk. And as often as I have done this, without a problem, it would be grossly imprudent to advise someone that it is OK to drive even 15k let alone 20k over the limit. "Easy to get away with driving 15k over on the 401," that is probably fair advice. But it is nonetheless speeding, nonetheless a violation of law.

Obviously, not all rules or laws are created equal. The seriousness with which rules may be enforced varies greatly. The potential consequences vary greatly.

And there can be great variability for precisely the same act. Again, a highway speed limit example: 20k over on the 401 in light traffic, between Waterloo and London say, is one thing; 20k over in a school zone on a busy Hamilton street when children are just getting out of school, that is quite another.


Here is the rub:

The use of a phony address, that is declaring a residential address which is NOT where the individual actually lives, has been at the core of scores and scores of not just individual cases of fraud, but fraudulent schemes facilitated by unauthorized (as in crooked) consultants. So of course the validity of the address used in applications and communications with IRCC is a key factor, something which IRCC might focus on with some attention, and sometimes a lot of attention.

My sense is that CBSA (who usually does the landing interview) and IRCC are well acquainted and OK with the fact that new immigrants will give a temporary address in the process of landing, which is the address of a friend or family member. This in itself should be NO problem. But of course that "should be no problem" does not come carte blanche; if, for example, there are multiple new immigrants using the address, that could be perceived to indicate that address is being used as part of a scheme to abuse or defraud the system. Where things go from there, well, that depends . . . could be not so bad, or it could be bad.

On the other hand, scores of PRs applying for a new PR card, or for citizenship, have given the address of a friend or family member even though that is not the address where they actually "live." That is outright misrepresentation. And often treated as such by IRCC. Again, the severity of doing this can vary considerably, depending on the particular circumstances. But doing this alone can be grounds for denying a citizenship application resulting in a five year prohibition, and make no mistake, this has happened to some.

What about the person allowing someone else to use his or her address? As already addressed by many others here, usually NO problem but in some situations it can lead to suspicions and inquiries . . . or, I'd add, a formal investigation.

There is NO hint of this in the OP's situation, BUT if IRCC has identified multiple people using the same address and has suspicions, perceiving the possibility that the address is being fraudulently used pursuant to agreement or a scheme, there is the possibility this matter will be referred to the RCMP or CBSA for a formal investigation, both into whether there is immigration fraud involved and/or criminal fraud, and if so, WHO is a party to the fraud. Remember, several of the fraudulent schemes exposed in the last decade involved arrangements between the crooked consultant and various others who agreed to allowing their address be used . . . this diffused the addresses being used, making it more difficult for CIC/IRCC to discover the scheme . . . the person whose address was used being paid a type of commission, easy money. Except, some of those who just allowed a consultant to use their address have ended up spending time in secure public housing, the kind with bars on the windows if there are windows.

As I noted in my previous post, my sense is that IRCC has finally developed electronic tools to identify intersecting data, like common addresses, telephone numbers, and employers.
 

KRP

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I really appreciate everyone here who has replied. I have been stressed out so much for the last 24 hours. I was totally unaware (lack knowledge) of SINP rules and obligations because I did not immigrate to Canada under SINP. I just shared my address with this person to help him and his family land in Canada. But I was aware that he came under SINP and he had a job lined up in Toronto.

I do not have a single dark spot on my citizenship application - not even a gap on employment or residency. I just panicked when I came to realize from the officer that I might be "misrepresenting" PR programs. Honestly I was shaken when the officer uttered the word 'misrepresentation' during my citizenship interview. I started explaining not very clearly. Officer interrupted me and put me on a spot asking me a "yes and no" type of question. To which I answered truthfully which sounded like I am jeopardizing my application. Later, I was not given ample time to explain the whole story and my lack of knowledge of SINP rules. I am considering strongly for hiring an immigration lawyer in Regina/Saskatoon. But probably I have to wait until I have a follow-up correspondence from IRCC because I do not have a document to discuss about with my lawyer.
http://www.immigrationcoach.ca/provincial-nominee-moving-to-another-province/
 

lonleyplanet1995

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Jan 13, 2018
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I had my Citizenship test and interview today. The interview was going smoothly. I was answering all the questions as I was asked. Towards the end the officer asked me why three other people living at your current address? I was surprised with the question (because no other people live at this address) then immediately asked the officer about their names. The officer left the room and came back after five minutes with the names. After hearing the names I instantly realized the names belong to the family of a friend who recently (4 weeks ago) used my address for PR landing in Toronto, although they were SK nominees. The officer asked me why they were using my address to which I replied I wanted to help them in receiving their PR cards in the mail because they did not have a home in Canada yet.

This discussion turned in an unpleasant direction, finally the officer said my friend is using my address to misrepresent PR program (SK nominee moved to ON, as he found a job in ON). In the end I was told my application will be further reviewed and I would be notified with the outcome. I left the interview room a little scared and have been thinking about this incident all day. To be honest I never thought about this before hand when my friend asked me my address.

After getting back home I have asked my friend to update his address on record. I am not sure how my citizenship application will end up? A lot of negative thoughts shroud my mind now - have I participated in misrepresenting PR nomination program? Will this lead to denial of citizenship? Will this lead to PR revoke? I am really scared. In the morning I left home excited for the citizenship test, and a few hours after I returned home nervous and skeptic. Any thoughts on what may happen to my application?[/QUOTE during my interview the officer asked some weird stuff. one question was if I own a house or I'm renting ! I don't know what a house has to do with my application !
 

btbt

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Feb 26, 2018
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I'm not really familiar with the provincial nominee program (family class myself), but from a quick search for some information about it... your friend may have some explaining to do. I hope your friend has proof he had been applying for jobs in Saskatchewan, and that he's been applying even after his arrival (to show he still intends to reside there). That may help him on one of the issues he may end up facing. He may still get in trouble for giving the immigration officer wrong information. In any case, he should probably lawyer up.

He only landed 4 weeks ago and has been using my address for the past 4 weeks. Will I be in a better position if he calls IRCC and removes my address from his file? Or, it is too late since CIC brought this up first ?
I expect it won't matter (much) now, as IRCC have raised the issue. He should still give them his actual address, but it's not likely to have an impact on what happens next.

If anybody has any other suggestion please let me know.
At this point you should probably just wait to hear back from the lawyers, and find out what they have to say. Nobody here is qualified or in a position to give you legal advice. It seems likely you'll be okay, and hopefully your lawyer can confirm that, but they are in the best position to advise you on what to do next.
 

frotenacs

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How long had you know this person before giving them your address? Did you just meet through a WhatsApp group? If so, yeah I agree, you probably should have been more careful. I don't care how well you think you know someone you've only had online contact with, you don't really know who they are and this is a fairly big ask of someone. Please note, I'm not trying to just pile on you. Rather, just in case others are considering doing the same to help a "friend", maybe would reconsider.
Honestly I did not know this person before. He is a friend of my wife's cousin sister-in-law back home. We received a reference email from our cousin sister-in-law regarding this person saying he needed a Saskatchewan address to use during his PR landing. My wife was a little hesitant to share the address, but after speaking with him on the phone I thought I could help him. He mentioned he had a job lined up in Toronto, and he would be using my address for PR landing. Even when he landed at Toronto, he called me asked my permission to use my address again to open a bank account. I said go ahead. Then next day he bought plane tickets for his family and came to Regina. I went to meet with him once, 3 days after he headed back to Toronto. All along he had a plan, unfortunately I could not catch it or I had any hint that he is misusing my address. This is again a message for others who are consenting to the use of their address for other people's PR landing.

I have had a very straight-forward easy citizenship application with all documentations in place, but one incident during the last 4 weeks (came out of no where) my application is in jeopardy. Stay alert.
 

Abu Hassaan

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My situation/understanding is exactly what you said. I knew he is coming under SINP and moving to Toronto after a few days of being in SK. But I did not know that his intention was misrepresenting or committing a fraud. I should have been much careful when handing out my address in WhatsApp.
He only landed 4 weeks ago and has been using my address for the past 4 weeks. Will I be in a better position if he calls IRCC and removes my address from his file? Or, it is too late since CIC brought this up first ?
I believe, you have confirmed to officer that you knew your friend is settling in Toronto and he came on SINP Program. I believe this is not a small issue and it may become a challenging to prove your innocence. I think, the following two points will be the key points:

1. Did you know SIMP rules?
2. If you knew he is settling in Toronto, then why did you give your address (because it is possible and easy to provide the address to IRCC after landing and getting settled down in Canada)?

You may be able to convinve IRCC your innocence relatively easily on point no 1 that you didn't know the SINP rules and you had no idea that your friend is planning for misrepresentation intentionaly but point no 2 may become challenging. I would suggest you to work around these two points at least using Lawyer to prove your innocence.
 

Buletruck

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Having spent a ridiculous amount of my time working in highly regulated industry and hobbies, I think the same general rules apply to IRCC/CBSA as applied in those, and that is, if it doesn't specifically say you can do something, assume it is illegal or you can't. It's all about the intent of the rule/regulation as presented.
Unless the OP profited in some manner (materially or monetarily) from his providing the address to his friend, I doubt there would be much IRCC/CBSA/anyone else would pursue for his rather innocent indiscretion. The OP's friends, on the other hand, may be facing a much greater risk (either now or in the future) when it comes time for a renewal or citizenship. Despite PR's being guaranteed freedom of movement once they become a PR, that doesn't absolve them of misrepresenting their situation to take advantage of a program to gain that status. I would think the OP's friends may be in for a rough time from IRCC.
 

Joshua1

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I have contacted Veeman Law in Saskatoon, but yet to hear a reply. I understand that CIC's suspicion is reasonable considering so many immigration frauds are happening around. I also admit I have committed a mistake. But now I have to convince CIC of my innocence (or lack of knowledge on SINP rules) and no involvement with this misrepresentation. If anybody has any other suggestion please let me know.
This can happen to anybody.

As others have said, what we think on this forum is irrelevant. However, it's a certainty that the CIC agent has to follow bureaucratic guidelines to treat your case. Based on what you described, there is no misrepresentation on your part or as your citizenship application is concerned (at least on what we know misrepresentation to be). The only thing I'd worry about is that your application could be delayed while they go after your friend's case, but that would be unjust... I don't think they have a case. Just my opinion.
 

keesio

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LANDED..........
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I have had a very straight-forward easy citizenship application with all documentations in place, but one incident during the last 4 weeks (came out of no where) my application is in jeopardy. Stay alert.
I tend to agree with others that your application is *probably* ok. But they are likely going to scrutinize it more now - meaning delays as they do they due diligence on researching it. The good thing is that it sounds like you don't have any other red flags that they could pick on.