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Any other 2011 applicants here?

Lily2011

Full Member
May 6, 2014
47
3
I'm just curious to see if I'm the only one. What went wrong with your application?
Here is my timeline

Applied Feb 2011
RQ Nov 2011
Test Jan 2015 (passed)
RQ2 April 2015
On hold briefly from Jan to Jun 2017 (due to appeal hearing)
Resumed and still processing..
 
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Joshua1

Hero Member
Nov 18, 2013
946
473
I'm just curious to see if I'm the only one. What went wrong with your application?
Here is my timeline

Applied Feb 2011
RQ Nov 2011
Test Jan 2015 (passed)
RQ2 April 2015
On hold briefly from Jan to Jun 2017 (due to appeal hearing)
Resumed and still processing..

WOW!!! 7 years and still not completed?
 

ZingyDNA

Champion Member
Aug 12, 2013
1,252
185
Category........
Visa Office......
CPP-Ottawa
NOC Code......
2111
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
28-06-2013
AOR Received.
28-08-2013
IELTS Request
Sent with Application
Med's Request
21-02-2014 (principal applicant)
Med's Done....
07-03-2014 (both, upfront for spouse)
Passport Req..
10-04-2014
VISA ISSUED...
22-04-2014
LANDED..........
13-06-2014
Why didn't you withdraw and re-apply? Have you been living in Canada since 2011?
 

Lily2011

Full Member
May 6, 2014
47
3
Apparently, I am the only one. I feel so special.

No, I did not consider withdrawing, why would I?

I consulted a lawyer once and he advised to wait. Maybe I shouldn't have? not sure.

Thanks for the good vibes, I need all the vibes I can get.
 

h3a3j6

Hero Member
Mar 31, 2014
382
69
Montréal
Apparently, I am the only one. I feel so special.

No, I did not consider withdrawing, why would I?

I consulted a lawyer once and he advised to wait. Maybe I shouldn't have? not sure.

Thanks for the good vibes, I need all the vibes I can get.
This is really outrageous. I can’t believe they can leave someone in limbo for all these years. I’m really starting to believe that the I in CIC or IRCC is an acronym for incompetence.

May I make a suggestion? Please call your local MP and have them enquire with the CIC, they have a special line. That was ultimately what made my file move....

All the best!
 

Stef.

Hero Member
Apr 5, 2017
603
164
Have you considered getting a lawyer and filing a writ of mandamus?
I agree.msomebody here on this forum was waiting for years, then got a lawyer and they did mandamus. In no time did he get citizenship.
Just do a search here on the forum. Best of luck
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,437
3,183
The reason the OP would not withdraw the citizenship application and re-apply is that If the citizenship application made in 2011 fails, the OP will need to start the process over including building time physically present in Canada, since the OP has mostly been outside Canada in the last five plus years; in particular, the OP has NOT met the eligibility requirements for citizenship for at least the last several years.

While the OP's citizenship application was in process the OP was reported for being in breach of the PR Residency Obligation. As a result, processing the OP's citizenship application was suspended.

Since the OP was reported in 2014 and that was not resolved until June 2017, it is NOT as if CIC and then IRCC failed to properly proceed on the citizenship application during that time; there was cause to not proceed with the application: a Departure (or Removal) Order against the OP.

The OP's successful appeal of the Departure (or Removal) Order was based on H&C grounds. In the meantime, however, the OP has continued to mostly be abroad and may be at risk of being reported again (the fact that the appeal was successful based on H&C reasons should allow the OP some hope of not being reported). The OP has a PR Travel Document which expires soon. If the OP wants to retain status to live in Canada, the OP should make the effort to return to Canada before the PR TD expires. Problem, though, is that the OP intends to go abroad soon after returning to Canada (with the hope of being delivered a new PR card while in Canada).

The outcome of the 2011 citizenship application will depend on the merits of that application.

While the OP was first issued RQ during a period of time the Harper government had dramatically increased the number of applicants being RQ'd, it was still BEFORE the 2012 OB-407 surge in pre-test RQ which targeted applicants based on overly broad criteria which swept scores and scores of qualified applicants into the RQ process. That is, the OP was issued RQ when the criteria for issuing RQ was more closely related to reasons for actual suspicion (which, of course, still affected many qualified applicants) OR was due to an application based on residency rather than physical presence (a pre-June 2015 short-fall-application).

The OP was issued RQ a second time in April 2015. Perhaps CIC (before 2015 election and change to IRCC late in 2015) was arbitrary in issuing the second RQ but the odds are CIC had actual suspicions about the applicant's eligibility for citizenship. Note: my guess is that CIC proceeded to the test in 2015 failing to connect the dots about the Departure or Removal Order, that a GCMS check at that stage identified the 44(1) Report and triggered the second RQ.

Scores of 2011 and 2012 applicants who were issued RQ had their applications in process for three plus and even four years. Especially applicants perceived to have gone abroad while the application was pending. (There was a lot of unconfirmed suspicion that CIC deliberately delayed processing many of these applicants precisely to wait until their absence abroad led to a breach of the PR RO.)

In any event, the OP's scenario is indeed an unusual situation and it is one in which Mandamus has been unlikely to succeed. While obtaining citizenship now would allow the OP to remain abroad indefinitely, and still retain status to live in Canada, it appears that the OP's first priority should be to return to Canada and take what measures the OP can to at least keep PR status.


See:

I have my PR since 2008. I applied for citizenship in 2011 and it is still processing.
I had to leave Canada and I was reported in 2014.
I had my appeal hearing in June 2017 and it was in my favor and I kept my status.
I applied for a new 5-year card and I received an invite to collect it
I am outside Canada but intending to return. I left a few months after the hearing to be with a terminally-sick family member (and I have hospital reports as proof).
I also have a travel document issued to me after the decision in July 2017 expiring next week.

Should I bother going to collect the PR card? I risk being reported (again) as I still do not meet the required number of days for residency (still a few months short) and I am not planning to stay as I am returning to the sick family member. Are the agents at the border not understanding if I show them the hospital reports?

On the other hand, I need my 5-year card. In case I was asked to come to Canada for any reason, I can + I don't have to go through the US land border.

What would you do? what are the chances that I will actually get reported if I show the appeal decision of July 2017 and the hospital reports of the terminally-ill family member (direct family member, not extended relative)?

My lawyer says that a copy of the decision is enough to apply for a new 5-year PR card. But he did not specify that if leaving before the card is issued can trigger the IRCC agent to report me when collecting my card or not. He did say the agent at the border can still report me but most likely wont when they see the copy of the decision.

I'm really torn

The chances of getting reported are low but the stakes are very high. Things will likely be fine but if they are not, I'll lose it all (status+citizenship application). It is worth the risk?
I'm just curious to see if I'm the only one. What went wrong with your application?
Here is my timeline

Applied Feb 2011
RQ Nov 2011
Test Jan 2015 (passed)
RQ2 April 2015
On hold briefly from Jan to Jun 2017 (due to appeal hearing)
Resumed and still processing..
 

Lily2011

Full Member
May 6, 2014
47
3
The reason the OP would not withdraw the citizenship application and re-apply is that If the citizenship application made in 2011 fails, the OP will need to start the process over including building time physically present in Canada, since the OP has mostly been outside Canada in the last five plus years; in particular, the OP has NOT met the eligibility requirements for citizenship for at least the last several years.

While the OP's citizenship application was in process the OP was reported for being in breach of the PR Residency Obligation. As a result, processing the OP's citizenship application was suspended.

Since the OP was reported in 2014 and that was not resolved until June 2017, it is NOT as if CIC and then IRCC failed to properly proceed on the citizenship application during that time; there was cause to not proceed with the application: a Departure (or Removal) Order against the OP.

The OP's successful appeal of the Departure (or Removal) Order was based on H&C grounds. In the meantime, however, the OP has continued to mostly be abroad and may be at risk of being reported again (the fact that the appeal was successful based on H&C reasons should allow the OP some hope of not being reported). The OP has a PR Travel Document which expires soon. If the OP wants to retain status to live in Canada, the OP should make the effort to return to Canada before the PR TD expires. Problem, though, is that the OP intends to go abroad soon after returning to Canada (with the hope of being delivered a new PR card while in Canada).

The outcome of the 2011 citizenship application will depend on the merits of that application.

While the OP was first issued RQ during a period of time the Harper government had dramatically increased the number of applicants being RQ'd, it was still BEFORE the 2012 OB-407 surge in pre-test RQ which targeted applicants based on overly broad criteria which swept scores and scores of qualified applicants into the RQ process. That is, the OP was issued RQ when the criteria for issuing RQ was more closely related to reasons for actual suspicion (which, of course, still affected many qualified applicants) OR was due to an application based on residency rather than physical presence (a pre-June 2015 short-fall-application).

The OP was issued RQ a second time in April 2015. Perhaps CIC (before 2015 election and change to IRCC late in 2015) was arbitrary in issuing the second RQ but the odds are CIC had actual suspicions about the applicant's eligibility for citizenship. Note: my guess is that CIC proceeded to the test in 2015 failing to connect the dots about the Departure or Removal Order, that a GCMS check at that stage identified the 44(1) Report and triggered the second RQ.

Scores of 2011 and 2012 applicants who were issued RQ had their applications in process for three plus and even four years. Especially applicants perceived to have gone abroad while the application was pending. (There was a lot of unconfirmed suspicion that CIC deliberately delayed processing many of these applicants precisely to wait until their absence abroad led to a breach of the PR RO.)

In any event, the OP's scenario is indeed an unusual situation and it is one in which Mandamus has been unlikely to succeed. While obtaining citizenship now would allow the OP to remain abroad indefinitely, and still retain status to live in Canada, it appears that the OP's first priority should be to return to Canada and take what measures the OP can to at least keep PR status.


See:

I appreciate the lengthy reply, but I need to correct/clarify some points:

I was not issued a removal order, nor did I stay abroad when my appeal was pending. I only left a few months ago, weeks after the hearing was over and right now, I am only a couple of months short of my RO. As I stated, I am not planning to stay "indefinitely". I am abroad to help my terminally-sick family member. And I have all the hospital reports to prove it if I needed to go to trial again.

I don't appreciate being portrayed as if I'm abusing the system, or talked down to, or even talked about as if I'm not here!
I moved to Canada in the mid 2000s and I've considered it my home since. I graduated from here, my kids were born here, my house is here, my life is here. Just because I needed to leave briefly to help my family does not mean I do not intend to go back.

In two years, I will be eligible to apply again under the new law, and I do have the option to withdraw my application but I figured I'd give it time since I am waiting anyways to re-apply. As for the mandamus, my lawyer advised me to wait because according to him "it might get resolved on its own and the pausing/resuming could kick start things". He said to give it 6 months then revisit the mandamus. I consulted two lawyers and both said my chances of a successful mandamus are high.

The citizenship application never paused until Jan 2017 as there was no removal order. The appeal was filed in 2014 yet I received my test invite and RQ2 in 2015. I also received an interview invite in early 2017 and I'm guessing when the agent received my file they realized there is a pending appeal. They called and cancelled the interview and put the application on hold. They notified me again in Aug that the application was resumed. So they only stopped processing for 8 months in 2017. I have ATIP reports from 2014, 2015, 2016 and 2017 proving this.

I have never tried to cheat or abuse the system. I moved to Canada to get away from such things and now you are accusing me of them? ironic.

This post has no question, so no advice is needed. If you like to reply to my other post (that do have a question) you can do it here:
https://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/threads/what-would-you-do.544752/
 
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Lily2011

Full Member
May 6, 2014
47
3
Okay thank you I wish you a good luck and become a Canadian citizen very sooon
Thank you.

I just wrote to my MP as well. According to the last ATIP report, the application finished processing documents and it is in the clearances stage. Hopefully the MP can nudge things to move forward.
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,437
3,183
I appreciate the lengthy reply, but I wanted to correct some of the info:

I was not issued a removal order, nor did I stay abroad when my appeal was pending. I only left a few months ago, months after the hearing was over and right now, I am only a couple of months short of my RO. As I stated, I am not planning to stay "indefinitely". I am abroad to help my terminally-sick family member. And I have all the hospital reports to prove it if I needed to go to trial again.

I don't appreciate being portrayed as if I'm abusing the system, or talked down to, or even talked about as if I'm not here!
I moved to Canada in the mid 2000s and I've considered it my home since. I graduated from here, my kids were born here, my house is here, my life is here. Just because I needed to leave briefly to help my family does not mean I do not intend to go back.
To be clear, my post was not in response to you but was addressed to those who had questions or concerns about how it is that a citizenship application could be in process so long. I quoted your posts for reference. (This is why I included them at the end of my post, not to address them but for reference.)

My effort was to explain that there are reasons why the process has taken so long, that your situation is indeed unusual, tied to the particular facts in your case, and thus it does NOT indicate that IRCC arbitrarily or capriciously fails to process citizenship applications. I made a concerted effort to reference facts not judgmental characterizations.

Regarding the facts:

There is no appeal of a 44(1) Report for a breach of the PR RO UNLESS the report resulted in the issuance of a Departure or Removal Order (both are the same thing just different name). While the Report is the subject of the appeal, the decision being appealed is that made by the Minister's Delegate, which is a Departure or Removal Order. (The other path to an appeal is to appeal a denied PR TD application.) Obviously the Report was valid in law (otherwise the outcome of the appeal would not have been based on H&C reasons).

If were not abroad for an extended period, between the date you were reported in 2014 and the date of your appeal hearing in June 2017, during that two and a half plus years (up to three and a half years), you would easily be in compliance with the PR RO now, rather than "couple months short" (or, "still a few months short").

Being RQ'd AND being reported and being RQ'd a second time, is what it is. At minimum it is an explanation for why a 2011 citizenship application might still be unresolved as of February 2018.

As I noted, perhaps the second RQ was arbitrary, but it is more likely it was based on legitimate criteria (just because there is a reason to impose RQ does not dictate whether the applicant is qualified or not qualified; it is a reason to examine more thoroughly). As I noted, perhaps CIC's initial delay in processing your application was deliberately intended to wait until you were absent long enough to not be in compliance with the PR RO, but obviously you were abroad after applying for an extended period of time given a valid in law 44(1) Report in 2014 (and it was widely known at the time that extended absences after applying were subject to such delays and elevated scrutiny; probably still this way even if not so much as it was in the Harper-era). Thus, overall it appears there was cause for CIC and then IRCC to engage in elevated scrutiny of your application, and in general this is not a situation tending to indict IRCC for arbitrarily or capriciously stalling.

I do NOT mean to judge. I did not say you have abused the system. As I noted, the outcome of the citizenship application will depend on its merits.

If, however, there has been any mis-characterization of abuse, that would be in the implicit suggestion that IRCC allows citizenship applications to wallow in limbo without cause for seven years. That is not the situation (not that it has not happened to others; just that it is NOT the situation here). And other members of the forum are entitled to some context.

Note: The fact that the appeal was granted based on H&C reasons is actually a positive factor for you; while it does not entirely start the PR RO clock over again, it should mean you are NOT strictly bound to a PR RO calculation based on 2/5 presence for at least awhile. Meaning a return to Canada relatively soon will have good odds of going OK (unless IRCC has you flagged otherwise). But further extended absences will of course increase the risk of being reported, subject to the strength of your H&C reasons. As you may be aware, typically there is more risk in a PR TD application than in being reported at the Port-of-Entry upon arrival.

By the way, changes to the Citizenship Act now mean that if you are reported again and the Minister's Delegate upholds the report, that could be grounds to deny the citizenship application rather than merely suspending processing of the application. The application is not saved from being denied because of or pending an appeal of the Report.