Urgent Query for dpenabill or any one else please

[asdf111]

Hello all!

Please do not judge me. Govt is in process of revoking my Canadian citizenship. I am a dual citizen and am about to cancel my other country of citizenship. Can I save my Canadian citizenship this way. I researched in google and found out Canada only revoke citizenship of dual citizens. If some one has no other citizenship govt does not revoke. Is that true ? Please help me out

Thanks

 

[zardoz]

Hello all!

Please do not judge me. Govt is in process of revoking my Canadian citizenship. I am a dual citizen and am about to cancel my other country of citizenship. Can I save my Canadian citizenship this way. I researched in google and found out Canada only revoke citizenship of dual citizens. If some one has no other citizenship govt does not revoke. Is that true ? Please help me out

Thanks

It depends on the reason for the revocation. If it was a citizenship gained by fraud or misrepresentation, it might not matter if you are a citizen elsewhere or not.

 

[Rob_TO]

Hello all!

Please do not judge me. Govt is in process of revoking my Canadian citizenship. I am a dual citizen and am about to cancel my other country of citizenship. Can I save my Canadian citizenship this way. I researched in google and found out Canada only revoke citizenship of dual citizens. If some one has no other citizenship govt does not revoke. Is that true ? Please help me out

Thanks

Explained very clearly here: https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/corporate/publications-manuals/operational-bulletins-manuals/canadian-citizenship/acquisition-loss/revocation.html
"Article 8 of the United Nations Convention on the Reduction of Statelessness states that a state is not in breach of its obligations should it render a person stateless for having obtained the status through fraud or misrepresentation."

If it's being revoked due to terrorism related charges, then you would be correct that they can't revoke it if you are not a dual citizen. But you could expect to go to jail.

If it was due to fraud/misrepresentation, then cancelling your other citizenship will not help you. Canada can indeed revoke your citizenship and make you stateless. They will also investigate if you actually complied with the PR residency obligation before becoming a citizen. If you end up stateless, not able to be a Canadian PR, and can't be deported anywhere, you may end up in immigration detention for a very long time.
I'm not sure if you can remain a PR of Canada (which is what's supposed to happen if your citizenship is revoked), if you are stateless. It's a 10 year ban to apply for Canadian citizenship again.

 

[dpenabill]

Hello all!

Please do not judge me. Govt is in process of revoking my Canadian citizenship. I am a dual citizen and am about to cancel my other country of citizenship. Can I save my Canadian citizenship this way. I researched in google and found out Canada only revoke citizenship of dual citizens. If some one has no other citizenship govt does not revoke. Is that true ? Please help me out

Thanks

You need a lawyer.

Even if I was an expert (noting, however, I am NOT an expert), this is not the sort question which can be dealt with in a forum like this.

You need the assistance of a professional with whom you can meet and go over details confidentially.

While Canada cannot act to make an individual stateless, revoking a citizenship which was obtained by fraud or misrepresentation is not affected by this (as others have pointed out). Citizenship obtained by fraud or misrepresentation is, in effect, void. It is as if the individual never had citizenship. Canada is not rendering the individual stateless by taking away a status the person never was entitled to in the first place.

There are no other grounds for revoking citizenship, so obviously the action to revoke citizenship is based on an allegation of fraud or misrepresentation.

CAUTION: The particular allegations as to misrepresentation or fraud are critical. Some will only result in the loss of citizenship and prohibit a grant of citizenship for ten years (misrepresentations about meeting presence requirement for example). That would render you a PR again. Still a Canadian, just not a citizen. BUT if the misrepresentation alleged involves obtaining PR status or was otherwise a misrepresentation made in obtaining status in Canada in the first place, this could also lead to the loss of all status in Canada and deportation. (Actual, in fact deportation, is more complicated; that's a separate matter.)

Did I mention you need a lawyer? LAWYER-UP!

It depends on the reason for the revocation. If it was a citizenship gained by fraud or misrepresentation, it might not matter if you are a citizen elsewhere or not.

The only grounds for revocation of naturalized citizenship are fraud or misrepresentation.

But right, does not matter if the individual has citizenship in another country or not.

If it's being revoked due to terrorism related charges, then you would be correct that they can't revoke it if you are not a dual citizen

There are no such grounds for revoking Canadian citizenship.

Of course if an individual was involved in terrorism prior to becoming a Canadian PR or while a PR, that may (most likely will) form an evidentiary basis for revocation based on misrepresentation or fraud (by omission if not an over misrepresentation). Grounds would be fraud or misrepresentation.



BOTTOM-LINE FOR OP:

As others observe, giving up other citizenship will not help. Again, LAWYER-UP.

 

[Rob_TO]

There are no such grounds for revoking Canadian citizenship.

Of course if an individual was involved in terrorism prior to becoming a Canadian PR or while a PR, that may (most likely will) form an evidentiary basis for revocation based on misrepresentation or fraud (by omission if not an over misrepresentation). Grounds would be fraud or misrepresentation.

So what does this mean in link above? Was it completely removed in latest citizenship rules?

Citizenship may also be revoked if a person (who is a dual citizen), before or after the coming into force of subsections 10(2) and 10.1(2) and while the person was a Canadian citizen,

• was convicted of terrorism, high treason, treason, or spying offences, depending on the sentence received; or
• served as a member of an armed force of a country or as a member of an organized armed group and that country or group was engaged in armed conflict with Canada.

Edit: Yes the terrorism part was rescinded, but can still have citizenship revoked due to war crimes.

Also as mentioned above even if terrorism type charges do not cause revocation of citizenship, it may result in criminal charges and a jail sentence. Though I imagine the OP's case is due to misrepresentation/fraud anyways.

 

[Seym]

So what does this mean in link above? Was it removed in latest citizenship rules?

Citizenship may also be revoked if a person (who is a dual citizen), before or after the coming into force of subsections 10(2) and 10.1(2) and while the person was a Canadian citizen,

• was convicted of terrorism, high treason, treason, or spying offences, depending on the sentence received; or

It has been revoked with C6. The famous "a canadian is a canadian is a canadian".

 

[Rob_TO]

It has been revoked with C6. The famous "a canadian is a canadian is a canadian".

Yep I do remember that now!

Seems at least the war crimes clause was kept in, so just the 1 extra way to lose citizenship besides fraud/misrepresentation.

 

[asdf111]

Karma is a bitch.Remember this?
https://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/threads/never-lose-hopes-you-will-win-here-is-my-story.65948/#post-640758

No one is interested. Asta la-vista!

LOL!

 

[dpenabill]

So what does this mean in link above? Was it removed in latest citizenship rules?

Citizenship may also be revoked if a person (who is a dual citizen), before or after the coming into force of subsections 10(2) and 10.1(2) and while the person was a Canadian citizen,

• was convicted of terrorism, high treason, treason, or spying offences, depending on the sentence received; or

The PDI is partially out-of-date. (Caution at beginning to the PDI notes that "Additional amendment to this page will be made at a later date. I'd note that IRCC has been, let us say, taking its sweet time in bringing their information up-to-date.)

Sections 10(2) and 10.1(2) in the Citizenship Act have been repealed.
see http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/C-29/page-4.html#docCont

Also read the "Transitional provisions" toward the end of the PDI. Perhaps IRCC concludes these make it clear enough that the only grounds for revocation are based on fraud or misrepresentation.

There are still separate procedural processes depending on what the misrepresentation or fraud was about. Section 10 one might say applies to ordinary fraud (like misrepresentations about marital status, work history, or such in applying for a PR visa, or misrepresentation about travel history in applying for citizenship), and Section 10.1 governs fraud or misrepresentation regarding war crimes or human rights violations or security related matters.

While it is common to refer to the grounds for revocation based on "fraud or misrepresentation," as I do as well, technically the statutory provisions refer to "false representation or fraud or by knowingly concealing material circumstances."

 

[dpenabill]

Seems at least the war crimes clause was kept in, so just the 1 extra way to lose citizenship besides fraud/misrepresentation.

The ground for revocation is still based on a "false representation or fraud or by knowingly concealing material circumstances," even if the underlying conduct (which was concealed) was a war crime.

 

[asdf111]

Thank you dear friends for your comments. I also found from google that govt can't revoke citizenship striaght away and matter goes to court and court decides it. Govt revoked 312 citizenships and they were reinstated by court and even court asked govt to pay $5000 to each victim.

Please shed light

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/federal-court-voids-canadian-citizenship-revocation-for-312-people/article35675424/

 

[dpenabill]

Thank you dear friends for your comments. I also found from google that govt can't revoke citizenship striaght away and matter goes to court and court decides it. Govt revoked 312 citizenships and they were reinstated by court and even court asked govt to pay $5000 to each victim.

Please shed light

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/federal-court-voids-canadian-citizenship-revocation-for-312-people/article35675424/

Revised procedures were implemented pursuant to Bill C-6.

The cases referenced in the Globe and Mail article involved an expedited procedure the Harper government implemented which provided virtually no due process protections at all. The Harper government was making an effort, in effect, to clean house. To many observers that outcome was readily predictable given the minimal due process afforded those targeted.

Current revocation cases are governed by the changes in procedure. The current procedure offers a lot more protection but personally I still perceive some flaws in it, and to my view they still do not sufficiently protect the right to a fair procedure.

BUT this is lawyer-up-country. Big time.

Moreover, beware of what you find online about this subject. There was some yo-yo-yoing in the law over the last several years, so a lot of stuff out there is out-of-date (as noted above, the IRCC PDI linked here is rife with a lot of information which is out-of-date), there is a lot of poorly informed opinion, and there has been a ton of misinformation . . . some of the latter, unfortunately, fueled by less than forthright advocacy voices including a couple lawyers (whose role in that should not be confused with competent lawyer representation of individuals in specific cases . . . public-issue advocacy is what it is and it inherently invites a kind of hyperbole).

There is no skirting what is at stake. This is get-a-lawyer stuff. (Not immigration consultant stuff, lawyer stuff.)

 

[asdf111]

Revised procedures were implemented pursuant to Bill C-6.

The cases referenced in the Globe and Mail article involved an expedited procedure the Harper government implemented which provided virtually no due process protections at all. The Harper government was making an effort, in effect, to clean house. To many observers that outcome was readily predictable given the minimal due process afforded those targeted.

Current revocation cases are governed by the changes in procedure. The current procedure offers a lot more protection but personally I still perceive some flaws in it, and to my view they still do not sufficiently protect the right to a fair procedure.

BUT this is lawyer-up-country. Big time.

Moreover, beware of what you find online about this subject. There was some yo-yo-yoing in the law over the last several years, so a lot of stuff out there is out-of-date (as noted above, the IRCC PDI linked here is rife with a lot of information which is out-of-date), there is a lot of poorly informed opinion, and there has been a ton of misinformation . . . some of the latter, unfortunately, fueled by less than forthright advocacy voices including a couple lawyers (whose role in that should not be confused with competent lawyer representation of individuals in specific cases . . . public-issue advocacy is what it is and it inherently invites a kind of hyperbole).

There is no skirting what is at stake. This is get-a-lawyer stuff. (Not immigration consultant stuff, lawyer stuff.)

I agree with you sir, I am in process of hiring a lawyer. Lawyers can over turn any thing. Thanks again

 

[dpenabill]

Lawyers can over turn any thing.

I would not say that. Not by a long shot.

But in a legal pinch, they carry a bat and know how to swing at the pitches.

They cannot, however, rewrite the facts. And while all sorts of things matter, the facts matter the most.

 

[zardoz]

@asdf111 - Is this specially a potential revocation for "fraud or misrepresentation"? If so, for which part of the process of obtaining citizenship. (The PR application or the grant of citizenship application?)