Parents and Grandparents Sponsorship 2018

[Pearl1]

The general population's sentiment on PGP is based on the perception that this class is a drain on the system. So why not select based on the ability of the family to support their parents? ie income and specifically how much taxes they pay. I say raise the LICO standards x 2. It would appease the general population.

haha.. do you understand what LICO is ? It is not there just for immigration purposes.

 

[Buletruck]

But I agree that is the reality unfortunately.

It's not a cynical view then, is it.......

 

[oaw]

Seriously. Get firm on this. Remember that CIC has not revealed whether they actually met the 10,000 quota for 2017. Stop throwing smoke and mirrors.

Most probably yes, May be they had not processed 10K applications last year. they did 2nd and 3rd draws....... not sure still they got genuine 10K applications.
there were so many people who had applied although they had not qualified.
the word lottery is de·ceive, lots of people had just applied as if its lotto 369.

But on the other hand this forum is doing a good job, guiding people that they are not qualifying for this year help IRCC to process less application,
also help us as a community to get better chance to be processed earlier.

 

[kkim604]

There was tons wrong with the old courier system. As demand in program grew each year, the quota would have filled up within hours on the first day. So it would still be a lottery in terms of what courier company you happened to choose. Plus courier fees would continue to rise to guarantee people they would have their app first in line. I could easily see courier companies charging thousands to line up at IRCC office days in advance.

Lottery is, by far, the fairest possible way to run the parents program which is really a purely H&C program anyways and the lowest priority of all immigration streams right now.

Price wasn't a issues.
Last time I asked them about it back in 2016, it was around $200 vs $60~$80 for fedex/puro/ups
People cried like it's some out of space price point that only the rich people can afford,
If you meet LICO, you can spend $200 no problem, skip couple of dinner out.

Problem was, they only do local pick up or you drop it to their depot in person, meaning service is only really available to GTA people.
In 2016 applications dropped off by local courier was under 5k, meaning 5k spots were up for grab for rest of country and other local people who didn't use courier. 5k is a lot considering that's what max cap used to be.
I personally know, my mother's doctor, and he used Canadapost Xpresspost from Vancouver, in 2016, and he still made it under 10k.

My opinion
Was Toronto local courier giving unfair advantage to people in Toronto? Yes
Was it big enough of issue to completely overhaul the system? No
Is current system better than previous? Absolutely No

If they want to be really fair? give until end of January to send in fully completed application.
Do a quick check of applications.
Doesn't even need men power.
Applications already generate QR code based information entered into the form. Scan QR code into computer and computer can check important requirements, such as income based on family size, probably takes few seconds for computer to spit out the results
After that, random select 10k qualifying applications.
By filling out application, most non-qualifying applicants will realize they can't apply.

 

[YULIA-2016]

Has someone started a spread sheet for 2018 applications ? it would be better if we start from the first step since completion of interest to sponsor a family member form.

What do you guys think ?

i can add 2018 in 2017 after draw
it must be just 1 this year

 

[YULIA-2016]

Most probably yes, May be they had not processed 10K applications last year. they did 2nd and 3rd draws....... not sure still they got genuine 10K applications.

i dont think so. it was just 2 rounds:
3500 went thru 1st
? went thru 2nd
but im sure total is not 10K

 

[Rob_TO]

Price wasn't a issues.
Last time I asked them about it back in 2016, it was around $200 vs $60~$80 for fedex/puro/ups
People cried like it's some out of space price point that only the rich people can afford,
If you meet LICO, you can spend $200 no problem, skip couple of dinner out.

No, the problem was that every year the price would increase, as more demand mean it would be more and more difficult to get into the 10K cap. In 2014 the cap was reached in 3 weeks... in 2016 it was barely 1 day. In another few years couriers would need to start lining up days in advance, and fees would skyrocket, of which I'm sure a portion of fee would be non-refundable even if your app wasn't delivered. Couriers lining up outside IRCC office days in advance is not an image IRCC would want people to see.

Doesn't even need men power.
Applications already generate QR code based information entered into the form. Scan QR code into computer and computer can check important requirements, such as income based on family size, probably takes few seconds for computer to spit out the results
After that, random select 10k qualifying applications.
By filling out application, most non-qualifying applicants will realize they can't apply.

Of course it needs manpower. People have to open and sort through the apps, check manually that family size was calculated correctly, and scan in app info to get the CRA tax info from sponsor and co-signer. Doing this for every single person that wanted to apply, would be ridiculous.

 

[Rob_TO]

Do you know that 95000 people entered lottery last year ? Multiply it by 25 and check the amount you get :O

With a $25 fee, there would not have been 95,000 applicants to the lottery. Would have been a fraction of that as people would actually have checked if they were eligible or not.

Say 30,000 qualified and applied to lottery at $25 each, that could be money going to fund resources at IRCC in one way or another.

 

[Rob_TO]

The general population's sentiment on PGP is based on the perception that this class is a drain on the system. So why not select based on the ability of the family to support their parents? ie income and specifically how much taxes they pay. I say raise the LICO standards x 2. It would appease the general population.

You are misunderstanding the purpose of LICO. It has absolutely nothing to do with how much tax someone has paid, nor anything to do with funding of someone's healthcare. All people working in Canada pay taxes which goes into a shared pool, which is then divided as needed by the government. A millionaire paying all their life into taxes has no more entitlement to better healthcare then another person, and similarly no more entitlement to be able to get their parents here to use healthcare. The healthcare system is already deteriorating as it is, so despite what someone has paid into taxes in the past an incoming parent/grandparent will add to wait times and take away resources, which is the burden of all Canadians.

LICO is there, simply to ensure a new PR's basic necessities will be covered and the sponsor will not go into financial hardship to pay for them. This is for things like food, clothing, shelter, entertainment, etc etc. LICO is supposed to be a basic amount that a sponsor will need to do this. LICO amounts for immigration in general are not random, they are based on research and analysis. Once one meets that basic amount, anything over it is completely irrelevant and everyone over LICO has an equal chance to sponsor. You can't arbitrarily raise LICO, since then you would simply be favoring the rich. It will not appease anyone, since a rich person's parents are just as equally likely to use healthcare and burden other Canadians, same as a parents of someone that just meets LICO.

 

[canuck78]

Also how wealthy you are doesn't always equal how much taxes you pay. Lots of wealthy people don't pay a lot of taxes for various reasons. I know that this is getting really off topic now!

 

[SMA.DE]

Hi @Rob_TO, @canuck_in_uk , and other seniors, I thought I was clear about Q2 and Q3 on the Interest to Sponsor form, but the more I read the more I got confused. So I want to confirm my answers before submitting the form. My family case is as follows:
- Me, the sponsor
- Husband, sponsored by me and the undertaking is already over
- School age kid, sponsored by me and the undertaking is still in effect.
- Second school age kid, born in Canada
No other dependents for both my husband and I, and no other sponsorships for both of us.

This time only I want to sponsor my mom and dad.

So for Q2 (family members currently in your family unit) , the answer will be myself+husband + 2kids=4, for Q3(number of persons I want to sponsor), the answer will be 2. Is this correct?

My main confusion is that for Q2, do I need to include my parents which will make the answer 6?

I understand to meet the income requirement, I should use 6 to check the income table.

Thanks.

 

[canuck78]

Hi @Rob_TO, @canuck_in_uk , and other seniors, I thought I was clear about Q2 and Q3 on the Interest to Sponsor form, but the more I read the more I got confused. So I want to confirm my answers before submitting the form. My family case is as follows:
- Me, the sponsor
- Husband, sponsored by me and the undertaking is already over
- School age kid, sponsored by me and the undertaking is still in effect.
- Second school age kid, born in Canada
No other dependents for both my husband and I, and no other sponsorships for both of us.

This time only I want to sponsor my mom and dad.

So for Q2 (family members currently in your family unit) , the answer will be myself+husband + 2kids=4, for Q3(number of persons I want to sponsor), the answer will be 2. Is this correct?

My main confusion is that for Q2, do I need to include my parents which will make the answer 6?

I understand to meet the income requirement, I should use 6 to check the income table.


Thanks.

You have it right.

 

[RguhsDUDE]

Hi @Rob_TO, @canuck_in_uk , and other seniors, I thought I was clear about Q2 and Q3 on the Interest to Sponsor form, but the more I read the more I got confused. So I want to confirm my answers before submitting the form. My family case is as follows:
- Me, the sponsor
- Husband, sponsored by me and the undertaking is already over
- School age kid, sponsored by me and the undertaking is still in effect.
- Second school age kid, born in Canada
No other dependents for both my husband and I, and no other sponsorships for both of us.

This time only I want to sponsor my mom and dad.

So for Q2 (family members currently in your family unit) , the answer will be myself+husband + 2kids=4, for Q3(number of persons I want to sponsor), the answer will be 2. Is this correct?

My main confusion is that for Q2, do I need to include my parents which will make the answer 6?

I understand to meet the income requirement, I should use 6 to check the income table.

Thanks.

Hello,
My understanding would be to go with answer 4 in Q2 and 2 in Q3. so, total=6.
Correct me If im wrong but thats what I did put on my form.
Good luck with your process.

 

[nayr69sg]

You are misunderstanding the purpose of LICO. It has absolutely nothing to do with how much tax someone has paid, nor anything to do with funding of someone's healthcare. All people working in Canada pay taxes which goes into a shared pool, which is then divided as needed by the government. A millionaire paying all their life into taxes has no more entitlement to better healthcare then another person, and similarly no more entitlement to be able to get their parents here to use healthcare. The healthcare system is already deteriorating as it is, so despite what someone has paid into taxes in the past an incoming parent/grandparent will add to wait times and take away resources, which is the burden of all Canadians.

LICO is there, simply to ensure a new PR's basic necessities will be covered and the sponsor will not go into financial hardship to pay for them. This is for things like food, clothing, shelter, entertainment, etc etc. LICO is supposed to be a basic amount that a sponsor will need to do this. LICO amounts for immigration in general are not random, they are based on research and analysis. Once one meets that basic amount, anything over it is completely irrelevant and everyone over LICO has an equal chance to sponsor. You can't arbitrarily raise LICO, since then you would simply be favoring the rich. It will not appease anyone, since a rich person's parents are just as equally likely to use healthcare and burden other Canadians, same as a parents of someone that just meets LICO.

Aye. I understand LICO.

But as someone mentioned, the general public is not in favor of parent sponsorship because they view it as a drain on the system.

So if you look at the politics, it's a balance between showing the public that the parents that come in are less likely to seek more than just healthcare eg welfare.

You talk about the price of courier going up and long lines. Nothing wrong with that really isn't it? The reality is the demand is much higher than the supply. No point hiding that. Seeing those long lines makes who unhappy? The general public or the ones who are trying to apply?

As kkim604 said, what's a few hundred dollars in courier fees? Heck even a thousand? The old system showed who was really serious about applying and getting their parents here. Who could have the resources and commitment to really support and help their parents here in Canada.

Instead the Liberals have decided to make the process easy peasy, just give it a try, buy a lottery ticket style. How many Lottery winners do you hear about lose all their winnings in a year? Winning the lottery does not mean these people have any idea what to do with their money. I believe it might be similar with some who win the lottery to sponsor their parents.

To say that the courier fees are prohibitive and that distance is an obstacle to people trying to bring their parents to Canada is a joke. The fees and effort involved in finally getting parents to Canada physically far outstrips any of those costs.

If you can't navigate the old system and couldnt even get your application in, then too bad. Go try again the next year. Put more effort and commitment to the application process.

A lottery trivializes the whole process which is a massive insult to those of us who are totally committed to getting our parents here.

 

[nayr69sg]

Can you imagine if they held lotteries for people trying to get healthcare because of long lines at the ED "looking bad" and not what healthcare authorities wanted to see?

Lottery for parents sponsorship is an absolute insult and is belittling to us trying for family reunification.

The word lottery only has a place when it comes to games. Like NHL 1st draft. Lotto 649 Lotto Max.

No where in serious issues do you ever leave things to a lottery!

For anyone suggesting that a lottery is the FAIREST way for parents sponsorship......

Let's see you allow someone to make important decisions for you and opportunities for you through a lottery system and see how you feel!

All those who share my sentiments, we must make our voices heard!