Not meeting residency obligation.. Travelling to Canada

[reeti81]

Yup thanks a lot ...

I will go via Toronto automated gates only ... me , wife, 2 kids... with PR valid for over 1 yr few months at that time, a small kid who is a citizen, very genuine and valid HnC condition ... I guess the officer would be considerate and may not report ...

Will live there for 730 days straight and apply renewal after that and evantually will live for life in Canada ...

If they report , won’t file an appeal and would return back as can’t add 1-2 more years of uncertanity to life at this stage and do nothing and just wait for appeal result ... in this case will settle back in India ...

Best of luck to me ... #Canada

 

[rish888]

Best of luck!

 

[Buletruck]

Are the officer very particular about 730 days or is it more about the intention ?

It's a requirement that a PR has agreed to when they were accepted and that's why an average of about 1400 people a year loose their PR. Yes, it is taken seriously, but enforcement at the border seems to be less intensive.

 

[rish888]

It's a requirement that a PR has agreed to when they were accepted and that's why an average of about 1400 people a year loose their PR. Yes, it is taken seriously, but enforcement at the border seems to be less intensive.

Key is to avoid Quebec IMO. They have more people removed than the rest of the country combined.

 

[reeti81]

It's a requirement that a PR has agreed to when they were accepted and that's why an average of about 1400 people a year loose their PR. Yes, it is taken seriously, but enforcement at the border seems to be less intensive.

By Border u mean land border?

I have decided to bet on automated gates at Toronto airport .. Because at border its obvious that primary officer will ask basic questions and hence high probability of referring to secondary ... at Airport with automated gates, 5% chance it gets skipped all the way ...

 

[rish888]

By Border u mean land border?

I have decided to bet on automated gates at Toronto airport .. Because at border its obvious that primary officer will ask basic questions and hence high probability of referring to secondary ... at Airport with automated gates, 5% chance it gets skipped all the way ...

If I were you I would try the automated gates.

 

[reeti81]

If I were you I would try the automated gates.

@rish888 - You have been very helpful , Thanks really ...

Just 1 last query, just checked CIC website for express entry- I still qualify for PR if I file as a fresh application .. I guess one has to renounce and immideately can apply as a fresh applicant ... will take around year - Including IELTS, WES, Processing, Medical etc ..

What is your suggestion- should I first try in Feb an entry with existing cards or should I renounce and apply fresh and go clean?

If I try with existing cards in Feb and get reported , then should I file appeal (considering historic chances in appeals have been towards rejection) or should i come back to India immediately, rennounce within 30 days and file as fresh applicant? Being reported once will have some impact on fresh application?

 

[rish888]

@rish888 - You have been very helpful , Thanks really ...

Just 1 last query, just checked CIC website for express entry- I still qualify for PR if I file as a fresh application .. I guess one has to renounce and immideately can apply as a fresh applicant ... will take around year - Including IELTS, WES, Processing, Medical etc ..

What is your suggestion- should I first try in Feb an entry with existing cards or should I renounce and apply fresh and go clean?

If I try with existing cards in Feb and get reported , then should I file appeal (considering historic chances in appeals have been towards rejection) or should i come back to India immediately, rennounce within 30 days and file as fresh applicant? Being reported once will have some impact on fresh application?

Definitely try to enter Canada first. Doesn't make sense to renounce before you at least try.

At the airport if the officer says he will report you an offer to voluntarily renounce your PR status instead. Doing this will allow you to enter as a visitor for a maximum of 6 months. Then after renouncing your PR status you can file a fresh application for PR.

But try first, you have nothing to loose.

Once you enter Canada immediately sort out health insurance, drivers license, school admissions for your children, and your Social Insurance Numbers if you don't have them yet. Once you have these essentials taken care of you have no need for a PR card unless you want to travel internationally. (Which you shouldn't be doing for 2 years anyways.)

First try to enter. Hopefully it works out for you and your family.

 

[rish888]

No need to get reported. You can renounce there on the spot, but either way there is no negative impact on any future applications.

 

[rajsri]

Is there any reason 730 straight days to stay in Canada?. Can we leave Canada for any emergency for a short period?. I am also in the same situation as @reeti81

 

[Buletruck]

That is the requirement you agreed to when you applied for your PR. It isn’t 730 straight days, it’s 730 days in 5 years for the first 5 years. There is nothing preventing you from leaving Canada at any point in time. You can do as you please. But the risk is returning without having or being able to meet the 730 day requirement.

 

[dpenabill]

Is there any reason 730 straight days to stay in Canada?. Can we leave Canada for any emergency for a short period?. I am also in the same situation as @reeti81

As @Buletruck observed, there is NO consecutive days requirements for complying with the PR Residency Obligation.

But as a matter of circumstance, the PR who has been outside Canada for 1095 days within the preceding five years, or close to that, has left himself or herself NO MARGIN allowing for any additional days outside Canada. For a PR in this situation, any travel outside Canada involves a risk of being reported the next time the PR arrives at a Port-of-Entry into Canada. This continues to be the situation unless and UNTIL the PR is in full compliance with the PR Residency Obligation. For a PR who was outside Canada for three years, or more, or very close to that, getting into full compliance will effectively require the PR to not leave Canada for two years.

The scope of the risk of being reported can vary considerably depending on many factors, and for example is less for a PR still in possession of a valid PR card, and who has settled in Canada, if the trip is brief. But there is still a risk.

Over the years, CIC and now IRCC, and CBSA, have trended toward more strict enforcement of the PR RO. In particular, during the years of the Harper government, enforcement escalated dramatically. There is no sign the current Liberal government is being more aggressive or strict, but there is little sign, either, that the current government is relaxing enforcement much if any.

 

[smallwhale]

Yup thanks a lot ...

I will go via Toronto automated gates only ... me , wife, 2 kids... with PR valid for over 1 yr few months at that time, a small kid who is a citizen, very genuine and valid HnC condition ... I guess the officer would be considerate and may not report ...

Will live there for 730 days straight and apply renewal after that and evantually will live for life in Canada ...

If they report , won’t file an appeal and would return back as can’t add 1-2 more years of uncertanity to life at this stage and do nothing and just wait for appeal result ... in this case will settle back in India ...

Best of luck to me ... #Canada

Which route did you take?
I am also in a similar situation, and want to evaluate my options.
I have a few questions, and would appreciate if somebody can help me with those.
1) In Toronto airport's automated gates, what all things have to be declared?
2) During the appeal process (in case I get reported), may I apply for a fresh PR application from within Canada? In case I get a job within Canada during the appeal process, will that help me to get a fresh PR?

 

[Buletruck]

1. Same things that would have to be declared in person. Just a side note, you still encounter CBSA staff with the machines.
2. You can’t apply as a PR if you are already a PR. You could only do that after your status is revoked (if that is the way it goes). You can still work in Canada if you are under appeal.

 

[nicklove128]

You want best odds?

Fly to Minnesota, US, then take a boat to Angle Inlet, Minnesota, US, then have a Canadian friend/family member living in Winnipeg come pick you up from Angle Inlet, then drive back to Canada together. There is no physical border crossing and no CBSA officers. You use a phone to call and report in.

You want next best odds?

Take a train from the U.S. I have read inspections for Canadians (Canadians being both citizens and Permanent residents) are usually quick and perfunctory. This is because they have a lot of people to process and giving Canadians the basic check allows them more time deal with foreigners.

You want what most normal people would do as well as what is most convenient?

Fly at a busy time and use automated processing.

While @Buletruck is correct in his observation that the afternoon is when CBSA's alert status is probably at its highest, returning Canadians (and again this includes both citizens are permanent residents) will probably be given only a basic check as they need to dedicate most of their resources to foreign travellers/suspected criminals etc. Also, if you travel during a busy time and get sent to Secondary, the first officer who reviews your case may be less likely to prepare a report if he has other foreign nationals and more pressing issues to deal with.

There are of course two sides to every coin, and some may take the opposing view, however my view is if you want to stay under the radar go where they are busy.

How about going by bus from the US? Does it also have the next best odds as going by train? Thank you!