Appeal Dismissed by IAD

[rish888]

@PMM My reply was to varun_Y

 

[rish888]

@KSA99 You're outside Canada? Don't mean to rain on your parade, but you're IAD chances are not good.

Yes, you can cross the land border with your expired PR card. Btw, why didn't you take a 1 year PR card for RO appeal? At the land border tell they officer you have a pending RO appeal.

p.s. you need to enter before the hearing. If you loose the hearing then you are no longer a PR so cannot enter even with an expired card.

 

[Varun_Y]

If you are in violation of your RO and are trying to get in undetected, do not go to Montreal. They hand out Departure Orders the way we hand out candy on Halloween.

Toronto Pearson is your best bet by air.

Buffalo Niagara is your best bet by vehicle.

Train is your overall best choice IMO if you have a valid PR card. I remember reading a post a while back and someone said that train checks (if you have a valid PR card) are pretty quick.

Whatever you do, do not go to a Quebec external border. (Especially if you don't speak French.)

@ Rish888,

Many thanks for the info mate.

Can you please elaborate on the train option? Should we take it from the US? I do have a valid PR card.

 

[rish888]

@Varun_Y

Considering you have a valid PR card, the most convenient option is to get on a flight to a non-Quebec airport (Toronto ideally) timing your flight so it lands at a really busy time of the day, have a clean customs declaration, and don't do anything to appear suspicious/invite questions.

You can also use automated processing.

The train involves taking a train from the U.S. However, getting on a plane is probably more convenient.

 

[rish888]

I brought up the train because someone mentioned it a while back and said how they don't scan PR cards on the train.(thus no verification of entry-exit records.) From what I gather the train may offer better odds because of the way inspection works.

You just book a train ticket. NY-Toronto for example, and get on the train and hope the best come inspection time.

 

[Varun_Y]

I brought up the train because someone mentioned it a while back and said how they don't scan PR cards on the train.(thus no verification of entry-exit records.) From what I gather the train may offer better odds because of the way inspection works.

You just book a train ticket. NY-Toronto for example, and get on the train and hope the best come inspection time.

Thanks Rish888.

The automated processing is very reliable too. I will be back to Canada soon as my PR card will expire in June 2019.

 

[rish888]

Thanks Rish888.

The automated processing is very reliable too. I will be back to Canada soon as my PR card will expire in June 2019.

How many days in Canada do you have as of now?

Assuming you go by end of this year you can get around 18 months credit.

Don't cut it too find if you dont need to. Assuming you already have a couple of months inside Canada then chances of being reported are far less than if you arrive 1 month before the card expires assuming you are caught.

 

[Varun_Y]

How many days in Canada do you have as of now?

Assuming you go by end of this year you can get around 18 months credit.

Don't cut it too find if you dont need to. Assuming you already have a couple of months inside Canada then chances of being reported are far less than if you arrive 1 month before the card expires assuming you are caught.

Yep, I have only one month in Canada but I do have H&C reasons. I shall bring the respective documents with me. Definitely I am in breach of RO. If it is not possible to reach on time, then most probably I will renounce my PR and reapply from scratch. Though it might take one or two years, it is worth doing it because Canada is one of the best place to live and work.

 

[rish888]

Yep, I have only one month in Canada but I do have H&C reasons. I shall bring the respective documents with me. Definitely I am in breach of RO. If it is not possible to reach on time, then most probably I will renounce my PR and reapply from scratch. Though it might take one or two years, it is worth doing it because Canada is one of the best place to live and work.

One month+18 months of credit (assuming you move by end of year) will give you 19 months. You will in breach by 4 months.

Try to go ASAP, emphasis on ASAP. A 4 month breach is not as egregious as it gets, so I like your odds at the airport. Do not renounce your PR at the embassy.

My recommendation is as follows:

Fly to Canada, use automated clearance.

Have a clean customs declaration, and pay attention to the little things, i.e., dress well, act calm, don't have "Send me to Secondary" written on your forehead.

Hopefully you are waived through. (This is where delay comes into play. Pick a flight that lands at 12 noon instead of 1 in the morning.)

If you are not waived through, explain your H&C reasons to the officer in Secondary. Say it's only a 4 month breach, you needed some time getting ready to move, and that you are coming for good. Say whatever else it is you feel is relavent.

At that point you will either be waived through by the secondary officer or be given the option between renouncing your PR or getting issued a report.

Assuming you still qualify for Express Entry and assuming you don't have very compelling H&C reasons (btw what are they) then renunciation if the alternative is a report may be suited for you. Renunciation still allows you entry into Canada, but as a visitor and only for 6 months.

Alternatively you can take the report, try your chances with the Minister's Delegate, and if it doesn't work out and you are issued a departure order you can appeal. During the waiting period for appeal you can of course work etc as you will be a full PR.

The thing to note here is your age, because as you get older immigrating gets harder. Assuming you are in your mid 20's this wouldn't be a problem compared to say someone in their 30s who barely qualified.

Assuming you don't want to deal with the hassle of an appeal and face the possibility of leaving Canada then you may choose renunciation; however, if at all you renounce it should be at the border.

 

[Varun_Y]

One month+18 months of credit (assuming you move by end of year) will give you 19 months. You will in breach by 4 months.

Try to go ASAP, emphasis on ASAP. A 4 month breach is not as egregious as it gets, so I like your odds at the airport. Do not renounce your PR at the embassy.

My recommendation is as follows:

Fly to Canada, use automated clearance.

Have a clean customs declaration, and pay attention to the little things, i.e., dress well, act calm, don't have "Send me to Secondary" written on your forehead.

Hopefully you are waived through. (This is where delay comes into play. Pick a flight that lands at 12 noon instead of 1 in the morning.)

If you are not waived through, explain your H&C reasons to the officer in Secondary. Say it's only a 4 month breach, you needed some time getting ready to move, and that you are coming for good. Say whatever else it is you feel is relavent.

At that point you will either be waived through by the secondary officer or be given the option between renouncing your PR or getting issued a report.

Assuming you still qualify for Express Entry and assuming you don't have very compelling H&C reasons (btw what are they) then renunciation if the alternative is a report may be suited for you. Renunciation still allows you entry into Canada, but as a visitor and only for 6 months.

Alternatively you can take the report, try your chances with the Minister's Delegate, and if it doesn't work out and you are issued a departure order you can appeal. During the waiting period for appeal you can of course work etc as you will be a full PR.

The thing to note here is your age, because as you get older immigrating gets harder. Assuming you are in your mid 20's this wouldn't be a problem compared to say someone in their 30s who barely qualified.

Assuming you don't want to deal with the hassle of an appeal and face the possibility of leaving Canada then you may choose renunciation; however, if at all you renounce it should be at the border.

Many thanks Rish888, I really do appreciate it. Yes, when you are saying clean customs declaration, it is basically the stuff that I will bring with me to Canada, most probably a laptop, couple of clothes in my baggage and document such as COPR. If someone brings stuff which will arise suspicion at the border, then they will be sent to secondary, correct?

Yeah, regarding my H&C reason, my father was not well, he had had undergone two eye surgeries which was very costly. I am 35 years old. I do understand the importance of age when seeking to apply for migration. I came across the webpage below which provides the points for age, education and working experience:

Source: http://www.immigration.ca/who-qualifies-for-canadian-permanent-residence-skilled-worker-immigration/

Age – Maximum of 12 points

Up to 12 points will be allotted to candidates between the ages of 18 and 35 years. Each year above the age of 35 will reduce the allocation by 1, with no points being awarded as of age 47.

 

[Buletruck]

A 4 month breach is not as egregious as it gets, so I like your odds at the airport.

I have to say I find this statement a little outrageous. Discounting the human factor involved in these issues, a 4 month breach of RO is still a breach of RO. There is no pro-rated formula for this requirement. The requirement for RO is 730days in the first 5 years and 730 at any point there after. 729 days is not 730 and despite being 1 day, is still a breach of RO. There is no difference between 1 day, 4 months or 24 months in the legislation. The odds may be in his favour (although I have significant doubts to the statistical accuracy of this statement, as I doubt this is information freely made available to the public by CBSA or IRCC), there is, without a doubt, a significant risk of being reported at entry. The OP needs to be aware that regardless of your feelings or analysis, his PR could be at risk upon return.

 

[Varun_Y]

I have to say I find this statement a little outrageous. Discounting the human factor involved in these issues, a 4 month breach of RO is still a breach of RO. There is no pro-rated formula for this requirement. The requirement for RO is 730days in the first 5 years and 730 at any point there after. 729 days is not 730 and despite being 1 day, is still a breach of RO. There is no difference between 1 day, 4 months or 24 months in the legislation. The odds may be in his favour (although I have significant doubts to the statistical accuracy of this statement, as I doubt this is information freely made available to the public by CBSA or IRCC), there is, without a doubt, a significant risk of being reported at entry. The OP needs to be aware that regardless of your feelings or analysis, his PR could be at risk upon return.

Yes, it is a breach but there are situation where PR holders with a breach in RO has been able to enter without being reported. But what could be the best option here please? Renoucing and reapply from scratch is the last resort.

 

[Buletruck]

I just felt it necessary to note that a breach is a breach. There is no difference in the amount of the breach.

but there are situation where PR holders with a breach in RO has been able to enter without being reported

This isn’t due to being “less” in breach than the next guy. This is a human factor (CBSA officer is in a good mood, won the lottery, etc) or shear luck.

Have to agree with renouncing being a last resort. US border entry is by far the choice I would make, given you have direct personal contact with the immigration officer. A PRTD application doesn’t afford the opportunity for that or the ability to read the situation as it progresses.

 

[Varun_Y]

I just felt it necessary to note that a breach is a breach. There is no difference in the amount of the breach.



This isn’t due to being “less” in breach than the next guy. This is a human factor (CBSA officer is in a good mood, won the lottery, etc) or shear luck.

Have to agree with renouncing being a last resort. US border entry is by far the choice I would make, given you have direct personal contact with the immigration officer. A PRTD application doesn’t afford the opportunity for that or the ability to read the situation as it progresses.

Ok. So the best option would be to take a taxi from the US and drive to canada. How about travelling by train please?

 

[rish888]

I have to say I find this statement a little outrageous. Discounting the human factor involved in these issues, a 4 month breach of RO is still a breach of RO. There is no pro-rated formula for this requirement. The requirement for RO is 730days in the first 5 years and 730 at any point there after. 729 days is not 730 and despite being 1 day, is still a breach of RO. There is no difference between 1 day, 4 months or 24 months in the legislation. The odds may be in his favour (although I have significant doubts to the statistical accuracy of this statement, as I doubt this is information freely made available to the public by CBSA or IRCC), there is, without a doubt, a significant risk of being reported at entry. The OP needs to be aware that regardless of your feelings or analysis, his PR could be at risk upon return.

I never said 4 months is not a breach, nor did I state that a 4 month breach guarantees entry without a report. I said in it the context of the "human factor" as you mentioned. Also, in H&C analysis (should it get to the MD) the extent of the breach is a relavent factor. The more severe the breach the greater the H&C reasons need to be.