Proving citizenship without Canadian Parent's Birth Certificate?

[justcurious2008]

I am a US citizen who has Canadian citizenship by way of my father, who was born in Ontario in 1946.

I'm trying to get everything together in order to acquire my Proof of Citizenship, but my efforts to obtain my estranged father's Canadian birth certificate have been hampered by the fact that:

1) He is unwilling to provide his birth certificate to me, and
2) He is still living, so only he can obtain the birth certificate.

Has anyone else had an experience like this? If so, do you have any recommendations on how to (legally) obtain his birth certificate or otherwise prove I am my father's son?

 

[alphazip]

Sorry, don't have a solution, but see:

http://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/threads/need-my-dads-certified-birth-certification.510459/
At least he has a copy of his father's birth certificate.

Also, see:

http://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/threads/canadian-citizenship-by-court-order.430917/

 

[justcurious2008]

Hi Alphazip,

Thanks for responding. That's about what I expected, but was hoping for some kind of crazy miracle loophole.

As morbid as it sounds, my best option at this point is probably just to wait until he passes away and order his certificate as a next of kin.

Thanks again.

 

[itsmyid]

Hi Alphazip,

Thanks for responding. That's about what I expected, but was hoping for some kind of crazy miracle loophole.

As morbid as it sounds, my best option at this point is probably just to wait until he passes away and order his certificate as a next of kin.

Thanks again.

If you don't live here and don't intend to live here, there is little point to get the citizenship ... if you really want to live here, you can just do what most people in this forum are doing : getting PR first and staying for 3-4 years and applying for citizenship , unless your father's life expectancy is less than 4 years at this point ...

 

[justcurious2008]

Thanks for your input itsmyid, but I actually disagree that there's little point to gaining my citizenship if I don't plan to live there.

With the way the world is now, I'd be irresponsible not to explore all of my and my family's available options, should leaving the US become necessary.

I appreciate the response. Good luck to you.

 

[spyfy]

If you don't live here and don't intend to live here, there is little point to get the citizenship ... if you really want to live here, you can just do what most people in this forum are doing : getting PR first and staying for 3-4 years and applying for citizenship , unless your father's life expectancy is less than 4 years at this point ...

The OP is a Canadian citizen by birth. He can't apply for PR like a foreign national. It's not like you can apply for PR if you can't produce the documentation proving your citizenship status.

Not that this is helping much but I find it super weird that in Canada only the person named on the certificate can apply to get one. In many other countries any parent or child can also apply for the certificate.

 

[screech339]

The OP is a Canadian citizen by birth. He can't apply for PR like a foreign national. It's not like you can apply for PR if you can't produce the documentation proving your citizenship status.

Not that this is helping much but I find it super weird that in Canada only the person named on the certificate can apply to get one. In many other countries any parent or child can also apply for the certificate.

I think it has to do with preventing identity fraud / thief and expected level of personal privacy, mainly rules of consent. Government doesn't want to get caught in liabilities by giving information out without the person's consent.

 

[robinspree]

Hello everybody! Seems like you have same kind of sitsuation as me! I started the same kind of thread!

First of all if i understunt the Us law right, it says your Father have to provide you all his informations about his Family history and even medical history without any question its your right! You have your right to your real identity! So as i understunt you can sue your Father and get it by court order, if he is not cooperating. (This will be my last option if my things are not going to move forward)

How much do you have information about your relations to Canada and your Father? Does your own birth certification has your Father name and birth place on it?

Im not sure how they are checking all informations up but i believe they have access to your Fathers birth certification (i dont know if or how they check it when you apply proof of citizenship)

Myself i have all the information except my Fathers "Certified" birth certification (i have normal photocopy of it luckily) and i sent them already and im now waiting how it goes!

We are allready Canadian citizens and we cant apply for pr or other visas if i understunt right, even the eta visiting application asks "are you citizen" so basicly we cant even visit Canada before we get our Canadian passports! So there have to be some solution otherwise the sitsuation is ridicilous!!

 

[hawk39]

First of all if i understunt the Us law right, it says your Father have to provide you all his informations about his Family history and even medical history without any question its your right! You have your right to your real identity! So as i understunt you can sue your Father and get it by court order, if he is not cooperating. (This will be my last option if my things are not going to move forward)

Could you provide the specific law or case please?

We are allready Canadian citizens and we cant apply for pr or other visas if i understunt right, even the eta visiting application asks "are you citizen" so basicly we cant even visit Canada before we get our Canadian passports! So there have to be some solution otherwise the sitsuation is ridicilous!!

American citizens are exempt from the eTA and visa requirements that citizens from other countries are required to obtain before travelling to Canada. You can enter with just your American passport: http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/visit/visas-all.asp

 

[robinspree]

Could you provide the specific law or case please?


American citizens are exempt from the eTA and visa requirements that citizens from other countries are required to obtain before travelling to Canada. You can enter with just your American passport: http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/visit/visas-all.asp

I live in Europe and i have only European passport so i think i would need eta anyways! but my Dad lives in Usa and i think if i would need to take thing to court i would need to do it in Usa where he lives. Im not expert in law and i know about European laws and court system better than Us or Canadian! But i just started studying little bit about the Us and Canadian laws. I also had conversation with somebody in forum who contacted me and had similar sitsuation and she told me Canadian court took actions on Father who tried to escape his responsabilities in same kind of sitsuation! Im not native in English language so i might do some misunderstundings too when i read texts in English but here is something i just read!


https://www.crin.org/en/home/rights/convention/articles/article-7-name-and-nationality

Article 7 name and nationality

"However, in all cases, children should at minimum have the right to non-identifying medical information about their genetic parents. After all, the right to 'the highest attainable standard of health' under article 24, inevitably involves questions about family history. Denying children relevant medical information could harm their standard of care and unnecessarily put their health at risk. Where there are no countervailing concerns about invading a genetic parent's protected privacy, this information should be provided to children without question. In addition, States should not only grant children access to existing information about their origins, but should also be encouraged to ensure that medical information is maintained on gametes donors and persons placing children up for adoption."

I think this is some kind of international law. I have to do more reasearch also how it actually works in different countries! But as far as i know they even force parents to give DNA tests and child support etc.. if children wants and everybody has their right to identity! Here in Europe is law if somebody is trying to "hide" information for that reason children would not know his roots and family history its called "identity violation" and can end up jail time for violator! I first thought that international article was Us law text, but i will find it in Us law text too or ask lawyer soon! I will update!

 

[walktheline]

In Europe, there is European Convention on Human Rights enforced by European Court of Human Rights to protect many aspects of human rights. This issue here is protected by ECHR Article 8. While in US and Canada, there is no such thing. The one you quoted is from an UN Convention which is not legally enforced (just like most other UN Conventions). Unless you can get your father to Europe then sue him in Europe, otherwise there is little chance.

 

[hawk39]

https://www.crin.org/en/home/rights/convention/articles/article-7-name-and-nationality

Article 7 name and nationality

"However, in all cases, children should at minimum have the right to non-identifying medical information about their genetic parents. After all, the right to 'the highest attainable standard of health' under article 24, inevitably involves questions about family history. Denying children relevant medical information could harm their standard of care and unnecessarily put their health at risk. Where there are no countervailing concerns about invading a genetic parent's protected privacy, this information should be provided to children without question. In addition, States should not only grant children access to existing information about their origins, but should also be encouraged to ensure that medical information is maintained on gametes donors and persons placing children up for adoption."

I think this is some kind of international law. I have to do more reasearch also how it actually works in different countries! But as far as i know they even force parents to give DNA tests and child support etc.. if children wants and everybody has their right to identity! Here in Europe is law if somebody is trying to "hide" information for that reason children would not know his roots and family history its called "identity violation" and can end up jail time for violator! I first thought that international article was Us law text, but i will find it in Us law text too or ask lawyer soon! I will update!

I think that Convention, according to the preamble and Article 1, only applies to children under the age of 18 (https://www.crin.org/en/home/rights/convention/text-convention). Are you under the age of 18? Even if you are and not an American citizen, you can not use this as legal precedent because your father lives in the US, which did not ratify the Convention and is not obligated to provide assistance or coerce your father to relinquish his birth certificate to the country that is invoking Article 7 on your behalf.

 

[robinspree]

The sitsuation is ridicilous and there have to be some solution to this! Im little over 18 but i have younger siblings and my Father is not paying any kind of child support. Luckily he has to come to Europe because of few reasons.

We also have to visit Canada. This cant be the case we cant go to Canada before we get our Canadian passports because we are citizens and we cant get passports because our Father dont provide birth certification? Sounds like some crazy sitsuation for Citizens.

Proof of citizenship application dosent even ask parents signature, we are Citizens wether parents likes it or not.

About the Convention it says every child has right to know family history and information have to provide to him. Do you mean everybody under 18 has right to family history and if you turn over 18 you lose your right to know your history? Sounds weird for me.

Im not sure how they understunt this law text but i think this is Us law text.

American Convention on Human Rights


"Article 20. Right to Nationality

1. Every person has the right to a nationality.

2. Every person has the right to the nationality of the state in whose territory he was born if he does not have the right to any other nationality.

3. No one shall be arbitrarily deprived of his nationality or of the right to change it"

 

[screech339]

.

American Convention on Human Rights


"Article 20. Right to Nationality

1. Every person has the right to a nationality.

2. Every person has the right to the nationality of the state in whose territory he was born if he does not have the right to any other nationality.

3. No one shall be arbitrarily deprived of his nationality or of the right to change it"

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Convention_on_Human_Rights

American Convention on Human Rights only applies to Mexico, Central and South America. US is not a party to this convention. Just because it has American in the name title doesn't imply US is a part of it.

 

[robinspree]

I hope my case moves forward somehow. However if threre really is no other options of corse i would need to consulate experiensed lawyers and ask them if something can be done. The sitsuation is crazy if Citizens can get stuck like this. I mean common sense says there must be something that we can do.