PRTD after 15 years

[Rbaghio1]

Hi,

I have some questions about restoring my PR status. I landed in Canada in 2002 but had to leave after I was offered a scholarship in the UK, married shortly after (in 2004) and then found that our newly born child had a heart disease. It took a few years until doctors allowed for a surgery because of minimum age so by the time I passed the 5 years without returning to Canada. My child now is in a good condition and I just came to know about the PRTD recently.
1- Do you think this is a good H&C case to request a PRTD?
2- if it is approved, within how long I need to travel to Canada after the approval?
3- how long it takes after I arrive to get a PR card ?
4- Can I apply immediately upon arrival for my wife and children ? What sort of process? And how long usually does it take?
5- since I was not aware that my status maybe still active, I applied this year for immigration by EE. Still waiting, do you thing any of the 2 things (this application and the PRTD) will affect the other?
6- in general in my case, is it better to go for PRTD or enter via USA border ( not from a visa exempt country but have a US visa)

Apologise for the long list but I would really appreciate the help I can get..

 

[steaky]

Go for the land border and once you enter the country, stay 2 years before apply your PR card.

If your spouse is a Canadian, you have maintained your PR status by accompanied her.

 

[Rbaghio1]

Go for the land border and once you enter the country, stay 2 years before apply your PR card.

If your spouse is a Canadian, you have maintained your PR status by accompanied her.

Thanks Steaky.
Unfortunately, my wife is neither Canadian nor from a visa exempt country same as my children. Will i be able to start the process of adding them to me (getting PRs) for them as soon as I enter or I rather have to wait for 2 years to do that?

 

[scylla]

Thanks Steaky.
Unfortunately, my wife is neither Canadian nor from a visa exempt country same as my children. Will i be able to start the process of adding them to me (getting PRs) for them as soon as I enter or I rather have to wait for 2 years to do that?

You'll need to wait two years. If you start the process of sponsoring them before you've spent two years in Canada, their application will be refused and your PR status will be revoked for failing to meet the residency obligation.

 

[Rob_TO]

Hi,

I have some questions about restoring my PR status. I landed in Canada in 2002 but had to leave after I was offered a scholarship in the UK, married shortly after (in 2004) and then found that our newly born child had a heart disease. It took a few years until doctors allowed for a surgery because of minimum age so by the time I passed the 5 years without returning to Canada. My child now is in a good condition and I just came to know about the PRTD recently.
1- Do you think this is a good H&C case to request a PRTD?
2- if it is approved, within how long I need to travel to Canada after the approval? [

I would say zero chance, because the H&C issue happened so long ago. It doesn't explain the past several years (I think from 2009 or so you could have returned?). Ignorance of the PR TD process is no excuse.

If you apply for PR TD, I would expect a rejection and process automatically started to officially revoke your PR status.

5- since I was not aware that my status maybe still active, I applied this year for immigration by EE. Still waiting, do you thing any of the 2 things (this application and the PRTD) will affect the other?

Once they confirm that you're already a PR, you'll be found ineligible for EE. Your app may be cancelled, and you'll be told to renounce your PR status first before applying again.

They may or may not also start an investigation into your residency obligation. I would guess they probably won't, but you never know.

6- in general in my case, is it better to go for PRTD or enter via USA border ( not from a visa exempt country but have a US visa).

Entering via USA land border is your best option. However CBSA will easily see you're a PR (since otherwise you'd require a TRV), and will also easily see you don't meet the RO. Odds are you'll be reported which again will start process to revoke your PR status, although you'll be allowed to enter Canada if you wanted to appeal. Appeal would have low chance of success, and if rejected you'd need to then leave Canada.

If you can somehow get into Canada without being reported, this present all sorts of other challenges:
1. You can't sponsor any of your family members for 2 years
2. You can't step foot outside Canada for 2 years, since you could be reported upon re-entry
3. You won't have a valid PR card for over 2 years, making it difficult to prove your PR status to places like a university or other government agencies
4. If your family requires TRVs to visit Canada and can't get them, you will be physically separated from them for 2 years
5. Even if your family did make it into Canada as visitors, your spouse would be unable to work and your non-PR kid may find it hard to go to school as a visitor (requiring a study permit and expensive tuition fees).

Honestly it's probably much easier to just voluntarily renounce your PR status, or try your luck with PR TD app even though it will most likely be rejected, and apply from scratch with EE if you qualify once your PR status is gone.

 

[Rbaghio1]

I would say zero chance, because the H&C issue happened so long ago. It doesn't explain the past several years (I think from 2009 or so you could have returned?). Ignorance of the PR TD process is no excuse.

If you apply for PR TD, I would expect a rejection and process automatically started to officially revoke your PR status.



Once they confirm that you're already a PR, you'll be found ineligible for EE. Your app may be cancelled, and you'll be told to renounce your PR status first before applying again.

They may or may not also start an investigation into your residency obligation. I would guess they probably won't, but you never know.



Entering via USA land border is your best option. However CBSA will easily see you're a PR (since otherwise you'd require a TRV), and will also easily see you don't meet the RO. Odds are you'll be reported which again will start process to revoke your PR status, although you'll be allowed to enter Canada if you wanted to appeal. Appeal would have low chance of success, and if rejected you'd need to then leave Canada.

If you can somehow get into Canada without being reported, this present all sorts of other challenges:
1. You can't sponsor any of your family members for 2 years
2. You can't step foot outside Canada for 2 years, since you could be reported upon re-entry
3. You won't have a valid PR card for over 2 years, making it difficult to prove your PR status to places like a university or other government agencies
4. If your family requires TRVs to visit Canada and can't get them, you will be physically separated from them for 2 years
5. Even if your family did make it into Canada as visitors, your spouse would be unable to work and your non-PR kid may find it hard to go to school as a visitor (requiring a study permit and expensive tuition fees).

Honestly it's probably much easier to just voluntarily renounce your PR status, or try your luck with PR TD app even though it will most likely be rejected, and apply from scratch with EE if you qualify once your PR status is gone.

Thanks Rob for the detailed response. I do agree I have to accept the fact that it is a very slim chance things go my way either way.
However, it is worth a try, most probably the entry via USA option. My wife intends to apply for post graduate study in Canada and therefore she can go on student visa and I assume in this case my children can accompany her and get enrolled in Canadian schools. I also assume this has nothing to do with my status then?

Can you explain what exact happens at the border when I enter via US border? And what sort of papers will I need (in case I'm allowed in) to get a job, rent a house...etc.

 

[Buletruck]

Keep in mind your wife will have to include your information on her application for a student visa, which may complicate things for both of you. They would be able to identify you as a PR and may refuse her visa as they may assume her intent isn't to remain in Canada temporarily.

 

[scylla]

Thanks Rob for the detailed response. I do agree I have to accept the fact that it is a very slim chance things go my way either way.
However, it is worth a try, most probably the entry via USA option. My wife intends to apply for post graduate study in Canada and therefore she can go on student visa and I assume in this case my children can accompany her and get enrolled in Canadian schools. I also assume this has nothing to do with my status then?

Can you explain what exact happens at the border when I enter via US border? And what sort of papers will I need (in case I'm allowed in) to get a job, rent a house...etc.

You should assume your wife will have a very difficult time getting a study permit approved given you are a PR. CIC will likely assume she is using the study permit as a means of getting to Canada to remain long term (i.e. her primary purpose is not to study). She will need to demonstrate extremely strong ties to her home country to be approved. Additionally, she needs to ensure that what she plans on studying in Canada makes sense in light of her previous education and experience. While her applying for a study permit won't impact your PR status in any way, CIC will know you are a PR and will likely be extremely suspicious about her intentions. You should have a "plan B' - and consider what you will do if she is unable to get a study permit to join you.

To answer your other questions - do you already have a SIN? Is this something you obtained when you were in Canada 15 years ago?

 

[Rbaghio1]

You should assume your wife will have a very difficult time getting a study permit approved given you are a PR. CIC will likely assume she is using the study permit as a means of getting to Canada to remain long term (i.e. her primary purpose is not to study). She will need to demonstrate extremely strong ties to her home country to be approved. Additionally, she needs to ensure that what she plans on studying in Canada makes sense in light of her previous education and experience. While her applying for a study permit won't impact your PR status in any way, CIC will know you are a PR and will likely be extremely suspicious about her intentions. You should have a "plan B' - and consider what you will do if she is unable to get a study permit to join you.

To answer your other questions - do you already have a SIN? Is this something you obtained when you were in Canada 15 years ago?

Hello Scylla, she is genuinely pursuing a degree in the area of her work but I understand they may be sceptical about it.
I don't have SIN or maybe it was issued after I left. Not sure whether I can check this while being outside Canada or not. Also I don't know if they will allow me to get one after I enter. The issue here is that these 2 years after they allow someone through the border have a very vague status to me.

 

[Buletruck]

The fact that you are a PR is seen as a risk of her not leaving after her courses are finished. TRV's and student visas are issued on the assumption you are going to leave after a specific term. Whether she is genuine or not isn't the problem....it whether she intends to leave or not.

Not having a SIN is an issue. You will need a valid PR card in order to get one. Without it, you won't be able to work (unless that isn't an issue). Things like a DL and health care may be an issue without a valid PR card as well, as they often want proof of your status in the country.

 

[Rbaghio1]

The fact that you are a PR is seen as a risk of her not leaving after her courses are finished. TRV's and student visas are issued on the assumption you are going to leave after a specific term. Whether she is genuine or not isn't the problem....it whether she intends to leave or not.

Not having a SIN is an issue. You will need a valid PR card in order to get one. Without it, you won't be able to work (unless that isn't an issue). Things like a DL and health care may be an issue without a valid PR card as well, as they often want proof of your status in the country.

Thanks Buletruck and all for the helpful replies... looks like much more complicated than I thought and seems like best viable option for the entire family is for my current EE entry to go through and then I renounce the old one and start fresh...
Last Q. Any idea whether the current status affects my new EE selection probability anyway? I see that despite I am over 400 points and ICT NOC which is on demand list for Onatrio currently, I am yet to get the NOI so having some doubt here.

 

[scylla]

Thanks Buletruck and all for the helpful replies... looks like much more complicated than I thought and seems like best viable option for the entire family is for my current EE entry to go through and then I renounce the old one and start fresh...
Last Q. Any idea whether the current status affects my new EE selection probability anyway? I see that despite I am over 400 points and ICT NOC which is on demand list for Onatrio currently, I am yet to get the NOI so having some doubt here.

Your current status will impact your EE application once you are selected and submit your application. You have to officially renounce your PR status before you submit a new application - otherwise your application will be refused.

 

[Rob_TO]

I don't have SIN or maybe it was issued after I left. Not sure whether I can check this while being outside Canada or not. Also I don't know if they will allow me to get one after I enter.

SIN is not something that is issued at random. It's something you must apply for specifically at a Service Canada office.

Assuming you never applied for a SIN, there is now zero chance to get one since they will only accept a valid PR card and nothing else. This means you would be unable to work legally for over 2 years in Canada, which is obviously impossible to even consider. So your only option now seems to be renouncing your PR status and applying again under EE.

Or you can just take your chance to apply for PR TD under H&C reason on the off chance they would approve it, but expect most likely scenario is it's rejected which will revoke your PR status.

 

[rish888]

Just a couple of quick things to add:

1: If reported at the border and you choose to appeal, you can get 1-year renewable PR cards. (This will allow you to 1: travel, 2: Get a SIN, prove your status as a PR etc.)

The issue arises if you get through undetected, which would leave you without papers.

If you go through the land border route and the officer is willing not to report you, but you don't want to be without papers, you could ask that an official H&C decision be made in your favor by the Minister's Delegate. (Similar to what would happen if you applied for a PRTD.) If the H&C decision doesn't work in your favor, you could renounce your PR at the border instead of the Departure Order thingy.

I don't want to give any sort of false hope since your reasons are not exactly compelling, but you may just find an officer having a good day.

If you don't mind the cost of a place ticket, then you could always try the land border option if you're the kind who believes any shot is still a shot.

 

[Rbaghio1]

Ok. 2 more questions I have from your answers:
1- what exactly is the sequence to renounce my old PR if apply again? As per my understanding:
Apply for EE >> receive NOI/ITA >> Renounce old PR >> proceed with application ... does it sound correct or shall I renounce it before even placing the EE entry?
2- @rish888 , in the case the 1 year PR is issued, can I use it to sponsor my family or is it just issued for me to stay and follow up on my appeal case ?

3- actually 3 questions , any chance I can find a lawyer or a representative to check if I was issued a SIN when I landed in 2002 and hopefully represent me to get a replacement one?

Thanks again.