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prtd rejected..got a notice for appeal ..please help!

priyabhee

Hero Member
Sep 23, 2015
247
10
I applied for prtd on nov 4th 2015 and got a decision from cic on 4th feb 2016
cic refused to give prtd as I didn't meet pr residency obligation in past 5 years and gave a notice for appeal

my story is I got pr in 2006 and I stayed in Canada only for 1 month and came back to india with my mom at the age of 13

as I was removed from Canada when I was minor and I have nothing in my hands to go back to Canada

MY friend has the same story he was removed from Canada at the age of 2 and applied after he reaching 18 years and got prtd without any rejected or appeal

the only difference between me and my frnd's case is I am 22 now and he was 18 when he applied for prtd which I think not considered and the rejection reason was only that I didn't meet residency obligation so its not related to age ..as we both didn't meet any obligation

I hv reason if they ask me y I didn't apply for prtd when I reach 18 ...when I was 17 I was forced to join bds in india because of financial reason as my dad couldn't affort for my studies in india ..so I was supposed to do my graduation in india till 2015 nov .

do you think they cosider this reason

so my appeal is I was removed from Canada when I was minor and as soon as I could make my own decision to come back to Canada and settle, I applied for prtd .

I wanted to know whats the appeal processing time?

please share your experience regarding my case..
help me if anything I can add to win appeal.
 

scylla

VIP Member
Jun 8, 2010
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Your age is definitely the reason. If you had applied for the PRTD when you were still in your teens, that would have guaranteed approved.

You can certainly appeal. But keep in mind that education reasons are not accepted as a reason for failing to meet the residency requirement. If you are trying to argue that you should be allowed to keep your PR status because you were removed from Canada as a child, then this argument really only works if you tried to revive your PR status as soon as you became an adult. Unfortunately you waited too long. I think your chances of success are probably less than 50%.

Having said that, by all means give it a go and appeal. You have nothing to lose. Provide as much evidence as you can about why you were unable to apply for the PRTD sooner. The process is not short. I would count on many months to over a year.

Good luck - hope it works out for you.
 

scylla

VIP Member
Jun 8, 2010
95,860
22,116
Toronto
Category........
Visa Office......
Buffalo
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
28-05-2010
AOR Received.
19-08-2010
File Transfer...
28-06-2010
Passport Req..
01-10-2010
VISA ISSUED...
05-10-2010
LANDED..........
05-10-2010
priyabhee said:
thanks Scylla

I will appeal for it but mean while can I apply for a student visa?
No - you can't apply for a student visa. To qualify for a student visa you would have to forget about appealing and officially give up your PR status. If you want to appeal, then you don't qualify for a student visa. You have to pick one.
 

priyabhee

Hero Member
Sep 23, 2015
247
10
:(
sad

Is there any other way for me to go to Canada...

Because appeal will def take longer time for the final decision and less than 50% chances

if I officially give up my pr status can my dad again sponser me pr

my would be is waiting for me ..we planned to get marry after I reach there :(
 

priyabhee

Hero Member
Sep 23, 2015
247
10
can i give a reason like this

the question will be y didnt you apply for prtd as soon as you became a major?

if my answer is

as there was a law that upto age 22 was considered as child till 2014 in canada,i thought to apply as soon as i complete my graduation in india for travel document so that it wont affect my education..this was adviced by my dad so i did my graduation and applied it at 22 and suddenly the law has changed.

will this answer satisfy?
 

scylla

VIP Member
Jun 8, 2010
95,860
22,116
Toronto
Category........
Visa Office......
Buffalo
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
28-05-2010
AOR Received.
19-08-2010
File Transfer...
28-06-2010
Passport Req..
01-10-2010
VISA ISSUED...
05-10-2010
LANDED..........
05-10-2010
priyabhee said:
Is there any other way for me to go to Canada...

Because appeal will def take longer time for the final decision and less than 50% chances

if I officially give up my pr status can my dad again sponser me pr

my would be is waiting for me ..we planned to get marry after I reach there :(
You are too old to be sponsored by your father for PR. I can't think of any way you can come to Canada while you wait for the appeal decision to be made. You don't qualify for a work permit, study permit or visitor visa since you are appealing - and your PRTD has already been refused. You'll have to wait for the appeal results in your home country.
 

scylla

VIP Member
Jun 8, 2010
95,860
22,116
Toronto
Category........
Visa Office......
Buffalo
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
28-05-2010
AOR Received.
19-08-2010
File Transfer...
28-06-2010
Passport Req..
01-10-2010
VISA ISSUED...
05-10-2010
LANDED..........
05-10-2010
priyabhee said:
can i give a reason like this

the question will be y didnt you apply for prtd as soon as you became a major?
if my answer is

as there was a law that upto age 22 was considered as child till 2014 in canada,i thought to apply as soon as i complete my graduation in india for travel document so that it wont affect my education..this was adviced by my dad so i did my graduation and applied it at 22 and suddenly the law has changed.

will this answer satisfy?
You can try. But I don't think this is a very strong argument. This law changing has nothing to do with the situation you are in. When the old law was still in place, 22 was still old for trying to save your PR status by arguing that you were removed from Canada as a minor.
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,435
3,183
A PR is entitled to have ALL reasons considered in assessing whether there are sufficient H&C reasons to allow the PR to retain his or her PR status.

How a particular factor affects the H&C assessment varies widely. Many facts (like stayed abroad for financial reasons; stayed abroad to complete a particular course of education) can be either a positive or negative factor, or a neutral factor. In particular, it is NOT correct to say " . . . education reasons are not accepted as a reason for failing to meet the residency requirement." Rather, the impact of staying in school abroad, foremost, must be considered among reasons for remaining abroad (when presented by the PR), and otherwise its impact will vary depending on many other factors and circumstances. All the relevant factors must be considered together and relative to one another, the totality of the circumstances being the key.

Some factors have a more or less clear effect. For example, the longer the PR stays abroad, the more negative this weighs against allowing retention of status given a breach of the PR Residency Obligation. The more compelling the reason to remain abroad (as in the less it is the PR's free choice), the more positive weight that reason has.

Decisions to stay abroad for personal reasons, as reflected by ordinarily free choices, tend to weigh negatively, like a choice to stay at a particular job abroad, or a choice to pursue a course of study abroad. But these are not weighed in isolation or in the abstract, but must be considered in context. Many times these factors are deemed neutral, depending on the extent to which there were compelling influences to make that choice rather than return to Canada sooner, but this can actually be something of an advantage if there are reasons explaining why a reasonable person would elect to stay abroad longer. And these can also be positive factors in some cases, again depending on the overall situation and other particular factors.

In particular, while your age is not in itself sufficient, your age is a factor relevant to a decision like staying in school, and depending on other circumstances these factors can at least support an argument that the IAD should allow you to retain your PR status.

Whether you can do so successfully is very difficult to predict. No one here can offer a reliable prediction or assessment of your odds . . . this is because these cases are so fact specific it is impossible to forecast how a given decision-maker will assess the facts in a particular individual's case, but also precisely because such cases are so dependent on all the attendant facts and circumstances (oft referred to the "totality of circumstances"), and in a forum like this there is no way to do a reasonably reliable assessment of all the relevant facts.

If you are willing to make an investment of time and effort (and you probably want to get help doing this, if possible, from a family member or more experienced friend for example), you can learn much more about what really matters in these cases, and how various factors have been treated in particular circumstances, toward better putting together a more persuasive H&C case based on your particular facts and circumstances.

For this, see:

Primary sources of information about making the H&C case for waiving a breach of the PR RO:

For a thorough outline of what is considered in evaluating H&C grounds in a determination which may result in loss of PR status, see ENF 23 Loss of Permanent Resident Status (this should link), and see section 7.7 beginning on page 26 in particular.

Additionally there are, literally hundreds of published IAD decisions which are official cases specifically stating what the law and rules are in these types of cases, how the law and rules are interpreted and applied, and how they have been applied in very specific factual situations. In these cases there is wide, wide variation in the way sundry factors have affected the outome.

You can search the Immigration and Refugee Board of Canada http://www.canlii.org/en/ca/irb/index.html, using terms like "sufficient humanitarian and compassionate considerations" & "residency obligation" & "permanent resident" The results are huge and unwieldy, not so easy to navigate to find specific information directly relevant to a specific issue like how staying abroad to finish school affects the H&C assessment, but the information is there. At the least, perusing even a few dozen PR RO H&C cases illustrates the range and variability of factors considered and what weight they have. (Do not be thrown off by, or rely on, any specific case; but rather study the discussion of H&C factors in many cases to get a grasp on how variable the process of assessing such factors can be and to discern what the better arguments are).


Important note: the H&C case in this context is very, very different than other H&C cases in the immigration context. There is now, for example, a Program Delivery Instruction (PDI)(this should link) outlining the H&C process for PR applications based on H&C grounds. While many aspects of this overlap or are otherwise similar to the H&C assessment in a PR RO case, there are also profound differences.



Overall:

I do not mean to say, not at all, that making the H&C case is at all easy in the absence of an explanation based on a compelling force beyond the PR's control, or in the absence of a compelling reason based on detriment to the best interests of a child. The PR RO is considered to be very liberal, if not generous, precisely to allow sufficient flexibility for those PRs who encounter difficulties in getting settled in Canada, or those who have been compelled (for reasons beyond their control) to remain abroad (thus the success, in retaining PR status, among many young people who sought to return to Canada within a year or two of attaining the age of majority).

Nonetheless, the distinction between what is considered (that being any and all reasons for not returning to Canada sooner) and what constitutes sufficient reasons should not be overlooked or otherwise confused.
 

priyabhee

Hero Member
Sep 23, 2015
247
10
ok thanks for spending your valuable time to reply me

I have decided to give up and not to appeal

m applying for student visa to do my masters

do u think prtd refusal will affect my student visa application
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,435
3,183
priyabhee said:
ok thanks for spending your valuable time to reply me

I have decided to give up and not to appeal

m applying for student visa to do my masters

do u think prtd refusal will affect my student visa application

In the abstract, the PR TD refusal has no negative relevance, and at worst should be a neutral factor.

In practice, however, it may have some influence in some visa offices, those where there is a more skeptical approach to assessing whether the applicant (for a temporary status, like a student visa) might over-stay the visa or is otherwise using a visa for temporary status as a means to come to Canada to stay.

In this regard its potential influence is different than what it would be relative to a new PR visa application, regarding which the PR TD refusal should have NO negative effect at all.

That said, if it has any effect at all, not pursuing an appeal should help in this regard. As others have noted, a prerequisite for applying for other status, like a student visa, was the formal termination of your PR status. The application for the PR TD constituted a typical way to accomplish that, since the refusal suffices to formally terminate your PR status and allows you to make an application for temporary status. Not appealing is consistent with this.
 

priyabhee

Hero Member
Sep 23, 2015
247
10
what you can suggest me
to appeal or to apply student visa

i am ready to start my immigration process once again from the begining no problem

because i want to set my career and life in canada because i am getting married in the month of december to a guy who is working in canada

before i get marry i want to finish my studies and hv a job in my hand

so please suggest me which is the better option to choose ..if chances for appeal is there i can wait for that ..because i get pr ..if less chances and better chances as student visa ..i vl go for that

my question is if i apply for student visa i will loose my chance to appeal ..so what step i should choose ..m so confused

if nothing is possible after getting married my husband is going to sponser me spousal visa ..does lossing of appeal and student visa affect getting a spousal visa?

please please help me
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,435
3,183
priyabhee said:
what you can suggest me
to appeal or to apply student visa

i am ready to start my immigration process once again from the begining no problem

because i want to set my career and life in canada because i am getting married in the month of december to a guy who is working in canada

before i get marry i want to finish my studies and hv a job in my hand

so please suggest me which is the better option to choose ..if chances for appeal is there i can wait for that ..because i get pr ..if less chances and better chances as student visa ..i vl go for that

my question is if i apply for student visa i will loose my chance to appeal ..so what step i should choose ..m so confused

if nothing is possible after getting married my husband is going to sponser me spousal visa ..does lossing of appeal and student visa affect getting a spousal visa?

please please help me
There is no better option in the abstract. The best course to take is dependent on a wide range of facts and circumstances unique to each individual situation.

Moreover, a forum like this is not an appropriate, let alone good venue for obtaining personal advice. The best informed participants can offer is information and general observations.

Key factor is the strength of the H&C case. The stronger your H&C case the more likely an appeal is the better route. I linked resources above with more information about H&C reasons for retaining PR status. A Canadian lawyer could help but that would probably be somewhat difficult from outside Canada, and expensive, and it would be better to have made an objective and studied assessment for yourself so that you could better judge what the lawyer suggests.

If an appeal based on H&C reasons does not succeed, however, pursuing an appeal will delay any path to coming to Canada well beyond this year.

If your spouse is a Canadian PR, that would be the most certain path to coming to Canada to live; losing appeal would not have a negative effect in that process at all, except you do need to have your PR formally terminated before a sponsored application can be made.

I do not know much about those who have temporary status bringing their spouses to Canada, except that here too, before that path could be pursued you will need to have your PR status formally terminated (not appealing, or losing the appeal will do that). I do not know, but my sense is that losing the PR TD appeal would not be a negative factor in that process.

What to do is largely a judgment call, one to be made personally, and best made giving due consideration to a lot of factors which are particular for you personally.